what are dragonborn?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


i am or was under the impression that they are the offspring of half-dragons that breed true. i don't know where to get this information so i am just asking. got links? or just willing to tell me that would be great.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Dragonborn are a D&D race that is not open gaming content, and as such cannot be an official part of Pathfinder.


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Are you thinking of Dragonkin, the draconic natives of Triaxus?


are dragonkin third party?

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Dragonborn came from a 3.5e book and were humans who mutated themselves into form as devotion to their draconian god.

Then 4th Edition made them just be the result of weird dragon eggs. 5th Edition followed after.


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zainale wrote:
are dragonkin third party?

They appear in Distant Worlds and Bestiary 5 (and Reign of Winter) as the official Paizo version. It's a generic enough term that a 3rd party publisher may have called something "Dragonkin."


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Dragonborn are a D&D race that is not open gaming content, and as such cannot be an official part of Pathfinder.

Actually, dragonborn are open gaming content now. They are included in the 5th Edition SRD, so Paizo could, if they wanted to, convert over the dragonborn to Pathfinder in a future book. It's doubtful, but it is possible, now.


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The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.


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Zaister wrote:
Dragonborn are a D&D race that is not open gaming content, and as such cannot be an official part of Pathfinder.

No, I'm sure they are open content.


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i don't care if they are open content or closed content. i asked what they were. and what my rule lawyer says is that they are kobolds. i don't think so. but i also think he is an annoying young whipper snapper. kobolds a cool little creatures but nothing like half dragons. maybe if a dragon reproduced with a kinder you might get a kobold.


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Kobolds are just Kobolds. You don't need another term for them because "Kobolds" suffices. They're scaly, and they claim relationship to great dragons, but the kinship is distant and murky.


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Basically, they're Kobolds but more fetish-friendly.


fetish-friendly?


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You GM may also be talking about his particular world. Maybe in his world Kobolds are also called Dragonborn and his world doesn't recognize the race created by D&D.


zainale wrote:
fetish-friendly?

Basically, they're Kobolds, but they're not Small creatures, don't have tails or reverse-jointed legs, and they're not cowardly or subservient. Just scaly humans with dragon heads.


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he is the rule lawyer not the dm

Dark Archive

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They are scaly, humanoid, half-dragons. If you just search Dragonborn D&D in google images you'll see what i mean. Other than both them and kobolds share the same draconic heritage there is no relation.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
EltonJ wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Dragonborn are a D&D race that is not open gaming content, and as such cannot be an official part of Pathfinder.
No, I'm sure they are open content.

Interesting. I completely forgot about Fifth Edition D&D having open content.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
zainale wrote:
i don't care if they are open content or closed content. i asked what they were. and what my rule lawyer says is that they are kobolds. i don't think so. but i also think he is an annoying young whipper snapper. kobolds a cool little creatures but nothing like half dragons. maybe if a dragon reproduced with a kinder you might get a kobold.

Well, regardless of open or closed content, dragonborn are not part of the Pathfinder RPG unless houseruled, so there is no lore about them, or rules to lawyer. Anything else is either from D&D or third party stuff. But since you asked in the "Pathfinder RPG General Discussion" foum, I assumed you wanted to know about dragonborn in the context of the Pathfinder RPG, and there is no such official information.


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zainale wrote:
i don't care if they are open content or closed content. i asked what they were. and what my rule lawyer says is that they are kobolds. i don't think so. but i also think he is an annoying young whipper snapper. kobolds a cool little creatures but nothing like half dragons. maybe if a dragon reproduced with a kinder you might get a kobold.

Rude.

You post about "dragonborn" with your own impression that they're descended from half-dragons. THEN post that you're mainly here to try and prove a "rules-lawyer" in your party wrong. But before the "I wanna show up the rules lawyer and put him in his place" reveal everyone here rightly assumed you were talking about dragonborn in context to Pathfinder rules and lore, which they explained there isn't any because "dragonborn" isn't a Pathfinder thing, because they initially weren't open content and while they are now they still haven't been translated to Pathfinder rules.
Then you shoot down everyone's explanations of the situation because you're still not really understanding that such a term doesn't apply in Pathfinder/Golarion lore which a quick search in the available Pathfinder races would have shown. It looks like you mostly got an issue with someone else in the party having a different opinion on the what term "dragonborn" is supposed to mean amongst your party: You = big half-dragon-esque creatures; "rules lawyer" = kobolds are descended/offshoots of dragons.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
zainale wrote:
i don't care if they are open content or closed content. i asked what they were. and what my rule lawyer says is that they are kobolds. i don't think so. but i also think he is an annoying young whipper snapper. kobolds a cool little creatures but nothing like half dragons. maybe if a dragon reproduced with a kinder you might get a kobold.

Kobolds ARE in some way descended from dragons in pathfinder, their abilities and feats are too close to say otherwise and they believe it themselves, though there isn't any given reason for it happening I believe.

besides ability scores everything is there.

wings, ability to breathe deadly stuff at people, etc.

however, kobolds aren't half anything, they're just kobolds, a weird race with non-specific but definite connections to dragons.


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Bandw2 wrote:
zainale wrote:
i don't care if they are open content or closed content. i asked what they were. and what my rule lawyer says is that they are kobolds. i don't think so. but i also think he is an annoying young whipper snapper. kobolds a cool little creatures but nothing like half dragons. maybe if a dragon reproduced with a kinder you might get a kobold.

Kobolds ARE in some way descended from dragons in pathfinder, their abilities and feats are too close to say otherwise and they believe it themselves, though there isn't any given reason for it happening I believe.

besides ability scores everything is there.

wings, ability to breathe deadly stuff at people, etc.

however, kobolds aren't half anything, they're just kobolds, a weird race with non-specific but definite connections to dragons.

Kobolds have three widely believed creation myths about them, according to the Pathfinder Wiki page, but yeah, nothing definite. Why are we talkign about Dragonborn, anyway? They're boring. Kobolds are better.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The (d20) Modern SRD has an entry for "Dragonblooded Humans". Their stats could be used for Dragonborn.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was going to make a joke but realized I needed to get home so I could play Skyrim.

Sovereign Court

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zainale wrote:
he is the rule lawyer not the dm

Isn't the GM the only "Rule lawyer" that matters?

The Exchange

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"Fus Ro Dah!"


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David knott 242 wrote:

The (d20) Modern SRD has an entry for "Dragonblooded Humans". Their stats could be used for Dragonborn.

doing a search on that "dragonblooded humans" lead me to finding Dragonblood Chymist. it sounds pretty cool and i do enjoy playing the alchemist.

humans also have a racial trait called draconic heritage, and there's the trait that you helped me find called "blood of dragons"

thanks, David!

seems like Pf wants us to know humans totally dig dragons. anyways you all have a good evening.

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master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cyrad wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

Fear effects are usually necromancy, though, not enchantment. And paralysis can be evocation (blasphemy), necromancy (ghoul touch), and probably lots of non-enchantment monster abilities.


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Cyrad wrote:

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

Don't forget Smites. Dragons are weaker to Smites.


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Cyrad wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

As opposed to being treated as an elf for bane and favored enemy. Which kind of weapon do you think are orcs and drow more likely to have?


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

As opposed to being treated as an elf for bane and favored enemy. Which kind of weapon do you think are orcs and drow more likely to have?

Drow? Might have Smite Good. Pretty nasty if you're a Dragon.


Bloodrealm wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

As opposed to being treated as an elf for bane and favored enemy. Which kind of weapon do you think are orcs and drow more likely to have?
Drow? Might have Smite Good. Pretty nasty if you're a Dragon.

So you'll take extra damage on ONE hit. the rest is pretty much the same. I wouldn't base my race choice on one corner issue.


Dragonborn like any other race term is a gaming construct. Now characters may refer to themselves as dragonborn, they could be the race that is described by this construct, or the race that is described as Kobolds, or even human barbarians who have a Dragon totem and no draconic blood in them at all.

Learn to separate out of character mechanics talk from in character roleplaying talk.


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Cyrad wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

The Dragonsoul Half-Elf seems to be the Paizo equivalent.

You give up either your human or your elf subytpe, and are treated as a dragon for things like favored enemy, but not for things like feats and prestige classes (so you can still go Dragon Disciple).

It's in Legacy of Dragons.

I never understood the benefit of that racial trait.

You gain a +2 on saving throws against sleep, paralysis, and fear effects, but you lose immunity to sleep effects and a +2 bonus to all enchantment effects. So the benefit is getting a much weaker version of a trait you lose. And you lose other beneficial traits. And you suffer the drawback of being treated as a dragon for bane and favored enemy.

There are also some spells in Legacy of Dragons that get added to your spell list for free (they have the [Draconic] descriptor) if you count as a dragon. That's also a benefit.

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