Injuries? Fat Characters?

[Theliah Strongarm]

Is there any rule for having obese and/or lame, deaf, blind, characters? Broken bones?

[Tyinyk]

There's some rules for blind and deaf characters, I believe all the rest are the realm of RP/GM discretion.

[GM Rednal]

Oracles have their various Drawbacks, of course. You can also use the Called Shot rules to simulate having various kinds of injuries.

[VRMH]

The Bloatmage PrC has some rules for being morbidly obese.

[Theliah Strongarm]

But, like, wouldn't an obese character suffer a speed penalty and some Dex penalties as well?

[Tyinyk]

Not as per the rules. Heck, I think it'd be fun to play a 20+ dex character who's morbidly obese. Pump up bluff to make people think there's no way you could hit them without them seeing it coming.

[Theliah Strongarm]

Tyinyk wrote:

Not as per the rules. Heck, I think it'd be fun to play a 20+ dex character who's morbidly obese. Pump up bluff to make people think there's no way you could hit them without them seeing it coming.

Thx.

[Quark Blast]

Poison rules essentially cover various injuries by detailing ability score reductions and other impairments.

As for obesity, you could mimic that by considering the extraneous weight as encumbrance.

[DungeonmasterCal]

Being obese myself, there's not a way in hell I could manage a "30" movement rate. And with the bad leg and bad knee I have I might manage a "20" in real life. And if it came to running I'd be the one caught by the bear because I can't run anymore at all. But it does bring up an interesting point. Treating it as encumbrance would probably work. We don't worry too much about that rule in my campaign unless someone tries to carry something that seems a bit ridiculous in size for their ability. Then we check the weight limits to see.

[GypsyMischief]

Look into Savage Worlds, it has a mechanic for having hinderances that cover all these various disabilities. The system isn't quite convertible to Pathfinder, but it gives an idea as to what sort of penalty a hinderance like that can bring. Personally I would let most of these character traits just be fluff unless it needs to be brought up. The fat wizard's body weight may only come into question when the party is squeezing through a tunnel, or cramming onto a canoe with the rest of the party, but may not need to be a constant hinderance.

[QuidEst]

Just so long as skinny people take more bleed damage and get penalties on their cold environment saving throws.

But seriously, rather than applying stat penalties, you can just have the character's point buy focused on stats that you think are more appropriate.

[Tyinyk]

QuidEst wrote:

Just so long as skinny people take more bleed damage and get penalties on their cold environment saving throws.

But seriously, rather than applying stat penalties, you can just have the character's point buy focused on stats that you think are more appropriate.

I think as opposed to penalizing skinny characters to match any downsides you would give an obese character, you could give the obese character a benefit to those to counteract the other drawbacks. Like a slightly less bleed damage and a bonus on their cold environment saving throws.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Traits and drawbacks seem like an option. Perhaps in exchange for an extra trait you could take a drawback like "Overweight: You always count as 50lbs heavier than your equipment alone." Alternately something like "You always count as one encumbrance category heavier than your strength and equipment would suggest."

[Azothath]

hey, you got your chocolate in my creamy pathfinder butter!
Oi, you got your pathfinder butter on my chocolate!
each takes a taste... ummmm.... *luv*

[Gark the Goblin]

For broken bones you could adapt the called shots rules. Don't personally see a need for rules for fat, but there's probably some 3.5 flaw you could dig up.

[Athaleon]

No official rules for obesity penalties (barring Bloatmage, which I guess is supernatural obesity?) Some ideas for morbid obesity penalties (not necessarily to be used all at once):

- Constant medium or heavy encumbrance
- DEX, CON, and movement speed penalties
- Permanently staggered
- Lower threshold for "strenuous activity" that would require a CON check to avoid fatigue

QuidEst wrote:

Just so long as skinny people take more bleed damage and get penalties on their cold environment saving throws.

Skinny people can't carry or lift as much, they need Weapon Finesse et al if they want to fight in melee, and they can't properly draw a bow.

Quote:

But seriously, rather than applying stat penalties, you can just have the character's point buy focused on stats that you think are more appropriate.

I interpret stats as representing characters near their peak condition, mainly because of how difficult it is to improve them. Someone may have (say) a 14 DEX and 14 CON, but is effectively at 8 in both until he loses some of the excess weight. That would take effort, for sure, but consider that it's impossible to raise even one of those stats from 8 to 14 in-game purely through training.

[UnArcaneElection]

Bloatmage requires Bloatmage Initiate, which says:

Quote:

Your introduction to the ways of the bloodmage allows you to use elaborate rituals and gruesome rites to expand your reserves of magical energy.

Prerequisite: Spell Focus (any school).

Benefit: You learn the basics of the ancient art of hemotheurgy.

Pick one school of magic in which you possess the Spell Focus feat—you cast spells from this school of magic at +1 caster level. This bonus stacks with the bonus from Spell Focus.

Unfortunately, the side effects cause you to be constantly under the effects of a medium load—your maximum bonus to AC from Dexterity is +3, you gain an armor check penalty of –3, and your speed decreases as appropriate (generally from 30 feet to 20 feet for a Medium creature).

In addition, at 3rd level of Bloatmage, you get:

Quote:

Corpulence

At 3rd level, a bloodmage becomes so massive that her rolls of fatty, blood-laden flesh grant her a +1 natural armor bonus. At 7th level, this bonus increases to +2 but reduces her speed by 10 feet. This penalty stacks with the penalty from the Bloodmage Initiate feat. This reduction in speed can never reduce the bloodmage’s speed below 5 feet, nor does it affect magical flying effects.

So there you have some precedent for rules about the effects of morbid obesity; however, as far as I have been able to tell, this is a one-off (two-off?) thing, found nowhere else in the Pathfinder rules.

[zainale]

well consider their str if it can carry their body weight and their gear then then they are good to go out and save people. if not then they are carrying a heavy load and must be treated as such. if the person was thin and made fat through some sort of spell and he is wearing armor i would say that the armor would be doing one of two things 1.) it would rip and tear under the strain or 2.) it stays intact and restrains the player/pc. people that are obese tend to have issues with their constitutions so they have a hard time moving their full speed and might lower their constitutions scores maybe a -2. if they where to lose all that weight you might depending on how long they had that weight improve their strength for carrying all that weight around 24/7. an obese person might have a DR against natural/unarmed attacks because the attacker would have to work through all that padding to get at anything vital. an obese person might do better in colder weather but not so much in hotter climates. an obese person will have huge minuses to any physical skills like acrobatics, climb, ride and disable device. but might be great at grappling *aka sitting on people*. and they might be good at swimming.

[Andrew Tuttle]

I was reading this today ...

Per Ogrekin 204 (Pathfinder Bestiary 2) "Disadvantageous Deformities:"
4: Obese: The ogrekin takes a –2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum score of 1).

Seems like it should be higher.

--Andy

[RedDingo]

Theoretically, you could calculate a character's BMI by their Con and their Size Category with the Strength and Dex scores determining how much is muscle and how much is fat.

Breaking bones would be a form Called Shot sunder maneuver with the hardness being that of steel + half the bonus provided by armor if it covers the area of the body targeted. If the bone's hit points are reduced to zero, it becomes broken. If the hit points are reduced to a negative equal to the Con mod, the bone becomes shattered. The penalty depends on which bone is broke.

Broken bones would be injuries that have two effects, one immediate, and one that can be a result of improper healing. Obviously high level Restoration spells can undo or remedy those but a even just channeling positive energy into the wound can cause it to fuse wrong unless it is held in a proper place at the time.

A saving grace is that a trained character can take twenty on the Heal check for broken limbs provided they have 8 hours to focus. After making this check, the penalties persist for at least a month as the bone heals but eventually disappear or are replaced by the penalties of improper healing. A healing spell can accelerate this process.

Oh and penalties stack.

Broken Arm: -2 strength and dex based rolls that use the broken arm, shield bonus is cut in half, 25% failure on spells with somatic components. Clime speed -10 ft. Causes permanent -2 to strength and dex and permanent -5ft penalty to climb if improperly healed (DC 25)

Shattered Arm: Unable use the arm at all, unable to two handed weapons, no AC bonus from held shield. All strength and dex checks that require both hands suffer a penalty equal to 50%. 50% failure to spells with somatic components. Climb speed -15 ft. Improper healing causes -4 to Strength and Dex checks as well as permanent -10ft to climb speed (DC 40)

Broken Leg: -10 ft to land speed. -15ft to climb and swim speeds. -2 to climb, swim, and acrobatics checks. Improper healing causes a permanent -5 to base land speed and -10 to climb and swim speeds as well as a permanent -1 to climb, swim, and acrobatics checks.

Shattered Leg: Leg becomes unusable. Treat the character as though their leg has been dismembered. Improper healing leaves a two-legged character with a permanent -10 ft. to land speed and -15 ft to climb and swim speeds. Permanent penalty to climb, swim, and acrobatics checks (DC 40)

Broken Rib: -1 per rib broken penalty to Con when determining how long a character can maintain a run or hold their breath and stamina pool (if they have them). Penalty to Fortitude saves versus gas effects resist fatigue or stay conscious when reduced to 0 hit points. Improper healing makes is permanent -1 to maintaining a run, breath, and stamina (DC 15)

Shattered Rib: Same penalties as broken ribs also 1d4 bleed damage to hp per rib shattered every time the the injured character moves more than half his speed, makes an attack action, a makes physical ability score based skill check, casts a spell with somatic components, or makes a fortitude save. Improper heal check causes a permanent -1 penalty to Con score (DC 20)

Broken Skull: 1st round of affliction, character is stunned. 2nd round, character is dazed, 3rd round and every round after until healed, character is staggered. Improper healing leads to a -1 on will saves versus mind affecting affects and concentration checks (DC 15)

Shattered Skull: Unconscious regardless of hit points. Improper healing leads to -1 to all mental ability scores every 2 points by which the check fails the DC. (DC 50)

[RedDingo]

Oh and taking twenty is not a guarantee of success, it just means your total heal check is 20+ your bonus to heal checks. It's more of a measure of how successful they are at not effing a person's treatment. In fact the roll of a nat 20 is fundamentally no different from taking 20, if anything it just means that your character was extremely lucky when administering treatment in haste. Perhaps if you roll three nat 20's in a row, it equals an auto success (as a mythic trial like miracle), barring that 2 nat 20's is the equivalent of 30 to you check.

What's the purpose of this? Well if Clerics could accomplish the kind of healing that they do in the system as is, things like disease and old age really should not be an issue in most societies. Pious human civilians would be regularly living into their hundreds without crippling injuries from routine positive energy showers. There has to be a purpose to the Heal Skill that doesn't make it obsolete to Cure Spells.

So it works on the principle that healing spells are essentially injecting positive energy into damaged cells, catalyzing a regenerative process that repairs wounds and energy. The problem is if the wound isn't held in place and the bones are not set, then the cells may not regenerate into their proper shape leading to deformities. Essentially a healing spell without the knowledge of proper anatomy is a lot like how the Talosian's had tried to fix up Vina in the Cage (to the five of you who recognize that, yes it's a TOS reference).

So a Cleric casting a healing spell to repair an injury should always have to make a Heal Check (or a Wisdom check if untrained) to make sure they are healing the wound properly. To be fair to Clerics though, those who have a patron with a Healing Domain can act as conduits for their deity's knowledge of proper medicine, allowing them to add their caster levels to the Heal check.

[UnArcaneElection]

^Interesting 2 posts of concepts for breakage -- Pathfinder Unchained #2 ought to have an option like this.

[Theliah Strongarm]

yeah. there's a whole part of the books that could've been in PF Unchained. They missed it. Maybe No. 2 will have it.