Deep Marshal Magus


Advice


Hey so i'm attempting to put together a character for a campaign and i'm trying to get something that does a good mixture of "smashy" and "magic" that isn't a bloodrager (nothing against it, but its so much of a go-to for me that i need to play something else).

The characters are starting at 4th level and this is what i have so far:

Build 1:

20 point buy: 17 12, 12, 15, 10, 7
Race: Half-Elf(Racial bonus +2 str)
4th level bounus: +1 str
Final stats: 20, 12, 12, 15,10, 7
Class: Magus (Deep Marshal/Hexcrafter)
Use the racial alt for exotic proficiency in Dwarven Dorn Dergar.
And use the 4th level hex from hexcrafter to get the flight hex.

The main idea was to get medium armor early on, and utilize the deep marshal's ability to use 2h weapons to get 2h str multiplier on damage.

I imagine at some point utilizing power attack + blade tutor's spirit. To maximize 2h damage on top of shocking grasps and such.

I assumed the only way to do this would be pure magus from 1-20 but the alternative i've seen was this:

Build 2:

20 point buy: 17 12, 12, 14, 9, 9
Race: Half-Elf(Racial bonus +2 cha)
4th level bounus: +1 str
Final stats: 18, 12, 12, 15,10, 9
Class: Magus(Deep Marshal/Hexcrafter) 3/Sorcerer (Crossblooded) 1
Bloodlines: Orc/Blue Dragon
Use the racial alt for exotic proficiency in Dwarven Dorn Dergar.
And use the 4th level hex from hexcrafter to get the flight hex.

The alternative idea here is sacrifice a spell level and 1 BAB to get a +1/dice on all damaging skills and a +1/dice on all electric damaging spells. Making the intensified shocking grasp do 10d6+20 eventually.

The other downside is outside of the damage boost and eschew materials, the sorcerer casting basically is non-functional with any magus abilities, so only buffing spells could be chosen basically. Though pre-combat buff spells like shield wouldn't be horrible to place on it.

The 2nd reason for this build is because it fits the prerequisite of a 1st level spontaneous caster, allowing eventual leveling into Dragon disciple which doesn't require that the class I add the spell levels to is the spontaneous one, so i can keep boosting class levels on magus, while also benefiting from the stat bonuses of it.

A partial alternative of this, is do the 1st build but then build in sorcerer at 5th level so 6th can become dragon disciple.

I would like to get some thoughts/critiques on this or possibly a better way to do this. But so far on either build i don't really have any feats/traits outside of weapon focus and intensified spell, and intensified spell can wait because it won't be very useful until around 5th/6th level.

For both i'd also thought of removing hexcrafter to get spell recall back but i'm not sure how useful it is considering the main drawback of deep marshal is a weaker arcane pool.


I would not dip out of Magus. I also wouldn't recommend going Hexcrafter...

Giving up Spell Recall negates your strongest feature as a Deep Marshall - the increased caster level on your spells. Spell Recall lets you double dip on your caster level maximized spells.

Dwarven Dorn Dergar is also not particularly attractive... why not just use a heavy pick?

You can compensate for the weaker arcane pool by being a Dual Talent Human for +2 STR/INT and using your FCBs.


Secret Wizard wrote:

I would not dip out of Magus. I also wouldn't recommend going Hexcrafter...

Giving up Spell Recall negates your strongest feature as a Deep Marshall - the increased caster level on your spells. Spell Recall lets you double dip on your caster level maximized spells.

Dwarven Dorn Dergar is also not particularly attractive... why not just use a heavy pick?

You can compensate for the weaker arcane pool by being a Dual Talent Human for +2 STR/INT and using your FCBs.

That makes sense.

As for why I had chose Dorn Dergar.
The reasons were these:
1. being able to spellstrike from reach seemed useful, but deep marshal doesn't support whips.
2. Being avoiding concentration checks many times.
3. It can swap to normal if reach isn't plausible for that fight.]
4. Even in medium armor my AC isn't very high so forcing additional enemies to provoke opportunity attacks to approach seems nice (the one i'm fighting will likely 5ft forward but i can 5ft away generally.


I note a stray sentence in your OP:

"and utilize the deep marshal's ability to use 2h weapons to get 2h str multiplier on damage."

Not with spell combat, right? I don't see anything about that in the archetype.

Personally I like the idea, at least, of a dorn dergar wielding magus at 6th level and above.

But then again, I was always big into whip magi, and as such I've grown used to the idea of a two-feat tax on my reach - other people well might disagree.

I don't think the crossblooded dip is worth it, personally.


Burnscar wrote:

I note a stray sentence in your OP:

"and utilize the deep marshal's ability to use 2h weapons to get 2h str multiplier on damage."

Not with spell combat, right? I don't see anything about that in the archetype.

Personally I like the idea, at least, of a dorn dergar wielding magus at 6th level and above.

But then again, I was always big into whip magi, and as such I've grown used to the idea of a two-feat tax on my reach - other people well might disagree.

I don't think the crossblooded dip is worth it, personally.

In bound by tradition:

"a battleaxe, heavy pick, warhammer, or weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name. She can use her spell combat or spellstrike abilities only with such weapons.
This alters arcane pool, spell combat, and spellstrike."

I guess it doesn't explicitly state the removal of the limitation but rather slaps a limitation on itself, though at least from what i can tell its supposed to mean "you can use it with these, but only these". Not really "proof" of intention but even the artwork for the archetype in the player companion is a dwarf using a 2h mace.

I could definitely see the argument being that mindblade specifically calls it out, but one could argue mindblade also does that because it has the capabilities behind level gates.


ranmyaku262 wrote:

...

For both i'd also thought of removing hexcrafter to get spell recall back but i'm not sure how useful it is considering the main drawback of deep marshal is a weaker arcane pool.

Actually, Deep Marshal and Hexcrafter don't stack. According to this FAQ, Hexcrafter counts as altering the Magus Arcana parent class feature by adding Accursed Strike and Hexes to the list of options. By the rules laid out by the FAQ, that means that Hexcrafter is incompatible with any archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features – which Deep Marshal does by replacing the 3rd level Magus Arcana.


ranmyaku262 wrote:
Burnscar wrote:

I note a stray sentence in your OP:

"and utilize the deep marshal's ability to use 2h weapons to get 2h str multiplier on damage."

Not with spell combat, right? I don't see anything about that in the archetype.

Personally I like the idea, at least, of a dorn dergar wielding magus at 6th level and above.

But then again, I was always big into whip magi, and as such I've grown used to the idea of a two-feat tax on my reach - other people well might disagree.

I don't think the crossblooded dip is worth it, personally.

In bound by tradition:

"a battleaxe, heavy pick, warhammer, or weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name. She can use her spell combat or spellstrike abilities only with such weapons.
This alters arcane pool, spell combat, and spellstrike."

I guess it doesn't explicitly state the removal of the limitation but rather slaps a limitation on itself, though at least from what i can tell its supposed to mean "you can use it with these, but only these". Not really "proof" of intention but even the artwork for the archetype in the player companion is a dwarf using a 2h mace.

I could definitely see the argument being that mindblade specifically calls it out, but one could argue mindblade also does that because it has the capabilities behind level gates.

Considering just how pedantic paizo gets in their reading of spell combat (see 'is it full attack', natural weapons, hands of effort, slashing & fencing grace etc.), I must admit I find your reading rather unlikely.

Paizo's art is not to be trusted. Especially regarding deepmarshals.

This design was used for the Deepmarshal of the NPC codex. Who is a dwarven Abjurer 16 wielding a warhammer and wearing no armor.

IMO, you just have spell combat and friends, with the additional stipulations that they must be used with weapons from the list that otherwise qualify.


Burnscar wrote:
ranmyaku262 wrote:
Burnscar wrote:

I note a stray sentence in your OP:

"and utilize the deep marshal's ability to use 2h weapons to get 2h str multiplier on damage."

Not with spell combat, right? I don't see anything about that in the archetype.

Personally I like the idea, at least, of a dorn dergar wielding magus at 6th level and above.

But then again, I was always big into whip magi, and as such I've grown used to the idea of a two-feat tax on my reach - other people well might disagree.

I don't think the crossblooded dip is worth it, personally.

In bound by tradition:

"a battleaxe, heavy pick, warhammer, or weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name. She can use her spell combat or spellstrike abilities only with such weapons.
This alters arcane pool, spell combat, and spellstrike."

I guess it doesn't explicitly state the removal of the limitation but rather slaps a limitation on itself, though at least from what i can tell its supposed to mean "you can use it with these, but only these". Not really "proof" of intention but even the artwork for the archetype in the player companion is a dwarf using a 2h mace.

I could definitely see the argument being that mindblade specifically calls it out, but one could argue mindblade also does that because it has the capabilities behind level gates.

Considering just how pedantic paizo gets in their reading of spell combat (see 'is it full attack', natural weapons, hands of effort, slashing & fencing grace etc.), I must admit I find your reading rather unlikely.

Paizo's art is not to be trusted. Especially regarding deepmarshals.

This design was used for the Deepmarshal of the NPC codex. Who is a dwarven Abjurer 16 wielding a warhammer and wearing no armor.

IMO, you just have spell combat and friends, with the additional stipulations that they must be used with weapons from the list that otherwise qualify.

Darn..... i see the point there because the rest of the weapons specifically called out are all 1h weapons also. Making 75% of the list valid, just the other 25% that are 2h aren't valid. That makes this archetype much less interesting.


It's an ok archetype, if you are a dwarf. You can spell combat with the dwarven boulder helmet and spell strike with a dwarven longaxe. And you get earlier heavier armor use, but lose some defensive spells. And it's bonus against spell resistance is pretty nice.

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed a couple posts. Personal insults add nothing to the conversation. The Advice subforum is intended for folks to seek/provide advice, and these comments are contradictory to that goal.

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