After inadvertently necroing a 5yo thread, I've been advised to start a new one and there it is.
So I have this character concept of a monk character, and I'd like to know if there is currently a feat or other way that would allow him to use flurry with his one of his racial proficiency weapons. Would creating a feat to allow this... something like this
Sword saint
Allows a monk to flurry with one weapon chosen when the feat is taken.
Prerequisites: flurry of blows, proficiency with weapon, potentially weapon focus with weapon.
Would it be game breaking, what other means would there be to allow this? If mentioning existing feats or archetypes, please mention the book it was published in as, if at all possible, I prefer to refer to paper than to the SRD.
So you're not asking for an already existing way to do this? EIf there is an existing way, I'm certainly askiither way, this thread is in the wrong forum.
If there is an already existing feat or other means, I'm certainly asking for it, but since I don't know of any such, and I've done some looking, I also ask for evaluation of my proposed solution, something I'd submit to the DM if I can't give him an official solution to my problem.
Crusader's Flurry feat from Ultimate Combat? Yes, I see where Weapon Focus would be required, I just might change the class dip requirement into a racial proficiency requirement so you can't do that with just any weapon.
Crusader's Flurry feat from Ultimate Combat? Yes, I see where Weapon Focus would be required, I just might change the class dip requirement into a racial proficiency requirement so you can't do that with just any weapon.
Wouldn't human monks or any race lacking a racial weapon familiarity get boned by such a restriction?
Also if this feat is being made specifically for a character of yours that's already possessing such a "prerequisite" it's not really restrictive, is it? Such as a player trying to make a custom magic item with limitations on who can use it (with no penalty to their own character) for discounts. If that actually isn't the case, would still wanna make it harder than any "special race" of monk level 5 (or unchained monk of 3 if not playing human) to qualify for the feat.
Crusaders Flurry bones non clerics... the racial feats from the Races Guide bone thosde who are not members of the appropriate race, there seems to be a need for restrictions/qualifications to gain that kind of feat, but no obligation to be equal opportunity... Or, I could leave the proposed feat in the state it is in OP, since, barring the revelation that I've reinvented warm water and such a feat already exists, it's meant to be a proposed house rule anyway.
and the character is only at concept level and would start at level 1, he would have to actually take both feats (WF and the house ruled one I'm proposing) to gain ability to flurry with his double orc axe... and of course, neither feat is eligible for bonus feat status, unless my DM is feeling extra generous.
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Sohei monk can do this: "A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training" at 6th level. Try some 2-handed reach weapon, for example.
Note that the ability (which also gives weapon training) replaces "This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon." In other words, it seems to be more powerful than just the feat tax of 1 feat.
Multiclassing into a cleric is open to anyone willing for such an opportunity cost. Racial weapon familiarity isn't something gained as easily, if at all. If this is a simple custom homebrew feat, sure, but ought to have more prereqs than simply: "be this race that has weapon familiarity", weapon focus. Even if it's gonna be a race-specific thing there should still be more of an investment/opportunity cost to pick up the feat, otherwise why doesn't everyone of this race taking monk levels take the feat?
Another thing: such an exclusive race-class combination to grant easy access to "flurry any racial weapon", the campaign setting should have a strongly established lore that the race has a heavy monk culture, otherwise you get cases of typically chaotic races benefiting from typical lawful monk abilities when they should be an exception rather than the norm, such as goblin monks getting goblin weapons (if such even exists) to flurry. Or at the very least establish why certain races get better with monk abilities using unstandard monk weapons rather than other races.
Sohei monk can do this: "A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training" at 6th level. Try some 2-handed reach weapon, for example.
Note that the ability (which also gives weapon training) replaces "This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon." In other words, it seems to be more powerful than just the feat tax of 1 feat.
So it nerfs the mystical aspects of the monk (which I hoped to keep), but it makes for a better weapon fighter... thanks for bringing this option to my attention.
@ Protoman
Class dipping might have been a good tactic in 3.5, it's quite detractive from efficient character advancement in PF... as it is, I'm surprised Crusader's Flurry even surfaced as I don't see monk-clerics being too common (even though the common importance of wisdom makes the combo less absurd than it might seem at first)... so I'd avoid it if at all possible (i.e. unless my DM flat out decrees it's a hoop I have to jump to get my concept through... there's no go with the weapon I'm interested in for a favored weapon anyway.
and if there's a strongly enough implanted monk culture to have monks, there's no reason why monks of races that have ancestral weapon proficiencies, like elves, Half orcs, gnomes, Dwarves and Orcs... Goblins have traditional weapons, but not racial proficiency with them... So if races with mastery of traditional weapons can be monks, why would they not mix their traditional weapons with their monk's martial arts, the mix seems natural, even if it requires special study to effect.
Jus play a sacred fist warpriest
Jus play a sacred fist warpriest
Uh, what? The sacred fist's flurry is exactly like a monk's flurry, I still have exactly the same problem I started with... and given the very specific and post Ultimate Combat and post Ultimate Equipment weapon proficiencies of the sacred fist, I don't even have access to fun stuff like the temple sword or sansetsukon. Thanks, but no thanks until I have found an existing solution or validation for my proposed feat.
Because Sacred Fist fits all of the prereqs of Crusaders Flurry easily. Nothing youve posted so far necessitates the creation of new feats.
Yes, but I'm interested in racial weapons, or weapons of choice of the character, not in a priestly type playing with its deities preferred weapon... If I wanted to play a religious type, I would not be dabbling around monks.
and if there's a strongly enough implanted monk culture to have monks, there's no reason why monks of races that have ancestral weapon proficiencies, like elves, Half orcs, gnomes, Dwarves and Orcs... Goblins have traditional weapons, but not racial proficiency with them... So if races with mastery of traditional weapons can be monks, why would they not mix their traditional weapons with their monk's martial arts, the mix seems natural, even if it requires special study to effect.
Sure, I'm saying it'll require more "special study" than your suggested list of prereqs: being the race you already wanted, flurry of blows, and weapon focus. Currently that single "race with weapon familiarity" is simply just artificially inflating the actual cost-investment for a homebrew feat if you were always intending to play that race to begin with. Maybe throw in BAB 5+, or make it a Weapon Mastery feat that requires Weapon Training (can be qualified with Martial Focus feat) like in Melee Tactics Toolbox, or Still Mind or some other commonly archetype-replaced class feature so not all monk archetypes can qualify so there's an actual opportunity cost.
Class dipping might have been a good tactic in 3.5, it's quite detractive from efficient character advancement in PF... as it is, I'm surprised Crusader's Flurry even surfaced as I don't see monk-clerics being too common (even though the common importance of wisdom makes the combo less absurd than it might seem at first)... so I'd avoid it if at all possible (i.e. unless my DM flat out decrees it's a hoop I have to jump to get my concept through... there's no go with the weapon I'm interested in for a favored weapon anyway.
That sort of investment/opportunity cost is exactly why everyone is deeming your suggested feat prereq as too easy. If it's not balanced with that sort of difficulty it's not a balanced feat, regardless of how you feel about multiclassing. If gonna make a feat attainable by a single class monk build, make it harder so that those level dipping into monk can't easily take it with a single level in monk.
I dont see a meaningful distinction...
More to the point I think its best to talk to your GM and rewrite crusaders flurry slightly.
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And by the way, class dipping is still very viable in pathfinder, especially for martial characters such as monks. Capstones are as good as a myth for most groups, I've seen 20th level play very rarely, and even when you do see it, trading a 20th level capstone that can be used for less than 5% of your career for a slightly weaker but more synergistic option that can be used for over 80% of your career is not a difficult sacrifice to make.
Dipping one level into cleric is not bad if you really want a particular weapon to flurry with.
Flurry of blows is a powerful feature balanced by having a very limited set of weapons that can do it. This is especially the case for unchained monks. Having to take a one-level dip in another class to flurry with any weapon you want is more than a fair trade.
Assuming that the particular weapon you want it the sacred weapon of a god a monk can worship. Since I specifically want my half ork monk to play with an axe, which, to my knowledge, is not the sacred weapon of any core deity (I don't have access to an extended pantheon) dipping into cleric for Crusader's Flurry does not do any good for what I want.
Interresting take on the situation Aralicia, it has the advantage of being versatile, unlike my original idea which would have been fixed to one weapon type (and let's face it, be more of a flavor, tactically inferior option).
Assuming that the particular weapon you want it the sacred weapon of a god a monk can worship. Since I specifically want my half ork monk to play with an axe, which, to my knowledge, is not the sacred weapon of any core deity (I don't have access to an extended pantheon) dipping into cleric for Crusader's Flurry does not do any good for what I want.
You won't find a deity with "axe" as a favored weapon because "axe" is not a type of weapon. Gorum has greataxe as a favored weapon and it's trivial to find a deity with battleaxe on Archives of Nethys.
Gorum has Greatsword, not GreataxeYou won't find a deity with "axe" as a favored weapon because "axe" is not a type of weapon. Gorum has greataxe as a favored weapon and it's trivial to find a deity with battleaxe on Archives of Nethys.Assuming that the particular weapon you want it the sacred weapon of a god a monk can worship. Since I specifically want my half ork monk to play with an axe, which, to my knowledge, is not the sacred weapon of any core deity (I don't have access to an extended pantheon) dipping into cleric for Crusader's Flurry does not do any good for what I want.
Ah, that's right. It's Rovagug that has greataxe.
You won't find a deity with "axe" as a favored weapon because "axe" is not a type of weapon. Gorum has greataxe as a favored weapon and it's trivial to find a deity with battleaxe on Archives of Nethys.Assuming that the particular weapon you want it the sacred weapon of a god a monk can worship. Since I specifically want my half ork monk to play with an axe, which, to my knowledge, is not the sacred weapon of any core deity (I don't have access to an extended pantheon) dipping into cleric for Crusader's Flurry does not do any good for what I want.
Actually, I was thinking of the Orc double axe, but Rovagug's great axe is equally out of reach as monks are Lawful and Rovagug is Chaotic, meaning my monk can't be a cleric of Rovagug.
and as I said, I don't have access to the archives of Nethys as a source. only to the core pantheon, silly restriction as that may be.
You won't find a deity with "axe" as a favored weapon because "axe" is not a type of weapon. Gorum has greataxe as a favored weapon and it's trivial to find a deity with battleaxe on Archives of Nethys.Assuming that the particular weapon you want it the sacred weapon of a god a monk can worship. Since I specifically want my half ork monk to play with an axe, which, to my knowledge, is not the sacred weapon of any core deity (I don't have access to an extended pantheon) dipping into cleric for Crusader's Flurry does not do any good for what I want.
Actually, I was thinking of the Orc double axe, but Rovagug's great axe is equally out of reach as monks are Lawful and Rovagug is Chaotic, meaning my monk can't be a cleric of Rovagug.
and as I said, I don't have access to the archives of Nethys as a source. only to the core pantheon, silly restriction as that may be.
Why don't you have access? Because of your GM?
actually, the problem is with me. I can't do extensive reading onscreen, so I need paper to properly consult my options, and since I seldom play on Golarion, I've not bought the proper supplements.
Plus, while my GM is a reasonable and amenable man when properly approached, he's none to thrilled with material he doesn't personally own, so it might be an easier task to propose a house rule than to ask for use of an option from a supplement he doesn't have (and he doesn't have any of the Golarion books... I'm not evn sure we're going to nominally play there yet)
actually, the problem is with me. I can't do extensive reading onscreen, so I need paper to properly consult my options, and since I seldom play on Golarion, I've not bought the proper supplements.
Plus, while my GM is a reasonable and amenable man when properly approached, he's none to thrilled with material he doesn't personally own, so it might be an easier task to propose a house rule than to ask for use of an option from a supplement he doesn't have (and he doesn't have any of the Golarion books... I'm not evn sure we're going to nominally play there yet)
In that case, why don't you just ask your GM to homebrew a deity? Or you make one yourself and ask for his permission. Or ask what pantheon his game uses. If he's not using Golarion's pantheon, he's gotta be using something.
Heh Heh... an orkish god of martial prowess... Evil, death war, Strength, Earth, and... the Orkish double axe for a sacred weapon... could work.
I still don't like the idea of dipping any too much, but delivering a Inflict Wounds spell in addition to a punch or kick is just too fun to pass by.