Create pit and wall of force


Rules Questions


What happens if a creature is in a pit and I put a wall of force over it like a lid then the pit spell ends? How much damage is taken or does the creature appear on top of the barrier?


By RAW? Who knows?

My inclination is to leave the victim standing unharmed on a wall of force. As much fun as the image of smearing the enemy into jam is, I worry about turning a 2nd level spell into save or die.

How would it work? Well, the pit is a weird extra-dimensional space, when the pit goes away you're shunted into the nearest open space, physics cries a little every time create pit is cast, weird non-intuitive interactions are to be expected.


The original intent was just to box off the enemy. The summoner told me that the pit was going to end in 2 rounds and that's when I realized what was about to happen. Note that this isn't an actual wall of force. It's just a similar effect. The barrier has 20 hit points and 1 hardness per spell level used to create it, in this case it was a 1st level spell.


1d6/10ft down the create was in the pit. I base this off how the rules interact with failed movement. Most ability's that force a movement, deal 1d6 for each 5-10 feet the creature was meant to move and failed. This will also not be a terribly high amount of dmg.

Sovereign Court

I thought Wall of Force had to be vertical?


It's actually a fifth level SOD, Ring of Gyges, and it's two spells that takes two rounds to effect*, so I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the maneuver.

But I think Ascalaphus is correct.

*You could make some cheesy claims about quicken rods, but I'd say that the fall doesn't happen quickly enough for you to use both spells in a round.


Ascalaphus wrote:
I thought Wall of Force had to be vertical?

That is correct. For some reason I thought the spell gave more leeway with the orientation of the wall, but it seems that I was incorrect.


You're thinking of superior spells, like wall of stone.


Ascalaphus wrote:
I thought Wall of Force had to be vertical?

It does. Wall of Stone doesn't though.


This is an ability from the Rogue Genius Games Godling class. It's similar to the wall of force. For the sake of the question, don't worry too much about that specific ability. I'm more concerned with how to deal with putting a lid on the pit.


Sindenky wrote:
1d6/10ft down the create was in the pit. I base this off how the rules interact with failed movement. Most ability's that force a movement, deal 1d6 for each 5-10 feet the creature was meant to move and failed. This will also not be a terribly high amount of dmg.

We talked about that and the problems that we ran into are: 1) you aren't being raised as fast as you fall, and 2) what happens when you are squished between the ground and the barrier? Does the barrier give or are you crushed to death?

We ended up not having to worry about it since it only has 20 hit points and the zombie minotaur was able to deal enough damage to destroy it in a single hit. We are just looking for some insight because this won't be the last time that I need to use this tactic.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

As there is no raw I think what is required that you do something consistent, and fair. It might be amusing to see the foe smeared but then it will be used consistently as a tactic if it is a combo the characters class abilities enable. I would be inclined to shunt the foe to a safe square, or rule that the pit remains partially closed, unable to force the opponent out until the obstruction was removed. For a spiked pit, acid pit, or hungry pit, I would rule their additional effects stop. Suffocation might remain a problem over the long term, but along as what ever you choose is the same every time, and the players don't complain if you pull the same crap on them.


Bob_Loblaw wrote:
This is an ability from the Rogue Genius Games Godling class. It's similar to the wall of force. For the sake of the question, don't worry too much about that specific ability. I'm more concerned with how to deal with putting a lid on the pit.
Quote:
Barrier: You create a force effect which is a translucent barrier of energy. The barrier may be up to one 10-foot-square per caster level, and has 20 hp and 1 hardness per spell slot expended. The barrier has a duration of concentration, +1 round for every 3 levels of the spell slot used to create it. The barrier has a maximum range from you of 25 feet +5 feet/2 caster levels. The barrier may form any simple shape (line, arc, circle), but not complex shapes. You may not create a new barrier while a previous barrier exists (you may dismiss a barrier as a standard action).


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You don't really rise up so there should be no crushing. You should appear in the place you stood before the pit spell, but two things can't occupy the same space.

The teleport spell pushes you into the next open space, but you take damage. There is no rule for this situation because the rules don't cover every possible situation, so I would use the teleportation rule.

There are no rules for crushing at all so that is 100% on the GM if he wishes to decide which gives way between a person and a wall of force. I think the wall of force would win, if it were an actual force. It is more durable than a wall of stone, and I dont see a person winning against a wall of stone.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Create Pit wrote:
When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.

As you do rise up, the question is valid


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I think the most reasonable answer is shunting the creature to the nearest available legal square, with 1d6 damage for every 10ft of "rising". Kind of like dimension door. That's pretty reasonable damage because considering it takes 2 spells to pull off (a wall spell of some sort to cover the opening and a pit spell).

Under no circumstances should this automatically cause death, or even allow it to be a save or die. The spells were not intended to be used that way.

I like to think of it from the perspective of a player having the tactic used against them. If I were a player and the GM used a pit-wall combo on me and the combination turned into a save or die or just automatically killed I'd be pretty upset about it. By the same token, it shouldn't be usable on monster NPCs in that fashion.


I agree with Claxon, I would shunt them out for some minor damage.


I like Claxon's idea. It's what I was thinking that we should do. The Gm was going to be overly generous and have the barrier deal it's current hit points to the creature and itself, essentially destroying the barrier. The only problem I saw with this was that it made two very weak effects into a very powerful one. I actually would have even been ok with having the barrier automatically destroyed with the creature taking no damage or the creature simply appearing on the barrier. I want to make sure that whatever we decide as a group is going to be fair and reasonable. I haven't encountered this scenario before and I don't want my character to be more powerful than he should be.

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