Girl Pepper Sprayed By Police

[Quark Blast]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Gee we don't seem to have the same hassles in Australia.

Then again it's a lot harder to become a Police officer here, and the training is significantly longer. We also pay them properly.

High standards cost money.

That and not having a number of sub-cultures to police in a given city helps keep things civil as mutual understanding goes a long ways.

Of course, when Australia does have to deeal with subcultures, it doesn't go well. But how Australia treats its native populations is a whole other story.

Quark Blast wrote:

Also, Australia's immigration policies are more stringent than the USA's. Millions have simply walked into this country with no money or education and are here to stay. That can't happen Down Under. And if it did, and one were to get caught, one is shipped back out pronto. As I understand it. Am I right?

I want to be sure I understand you. Are you arguing that immigrants are the cause of our crime rates, or that police are more tempted to be violent against immigrants, or what?

Thanks for asking for clarification.

My point was that, due in part to stringent immigration policies in Australia, their society is more homogeneous than the USA's. A common people being policed by members of that common society will have far less friction than what we see in our "melting pot".

People (and cops are people) are inherently less friendly towards people of other culture/background. Certain subcultures take offense with minimal provocation. Check Out Joey Salads' Experiment to see a ham-handed testing of this phenomenon.

Europe is now getting a good dose of what we have as part of our 'normal' culture. Only they seemingly deal with it by pretending it doesn't exist. I would rather our social problems make the evening news every night rather than be like it is in (e.g.) France. In greater-Paris, when the number of burning cars each night drops down to 300 or so the situation is no longer newsworthy.

[thejeff]

Quark Blast wrote:

Thanks for asking for clarification.

My point was that, due in part to stringent immigration policies in Australia, their society is more homogeneous than the USA's. A common people being policed by members of that common society will have far less friction than what we see in our "melting pot".

People (and cops are people) are inherently less friendly towards people of other culture/background. Certain subcultures take offense with minimal provocation. Check Out Joey Salads' Experiment to see a ham-handed testing of this phenomenon.

Europe is now getting a good dose of what we have as part of our 'normal' culture. Only they seemingly deal with it by pretending it doesn't exist. I would rather our social problems make the evening news every night rather than be like it is in (e.g.) France. In greater-Paris, when the number of burning cars each night drops down to 300 or so the situation is no longer newsworthy.

Modern immigration policies have very little to do with the US not being a homogeneous society or with our problems with policing. For the most obvious example, the vast majority of our black population aren't recent immigrants - but in fact descendants of those brought here as slaves. Like, one assumes, the girl who was pepper sprayed.

[Irontruth]

Blaming it on immigration is also a scapegoat. There's no solution to make the US one "culture" without depriving massive numbers of peoples their rights (and/or lives). It's a pointless road to go down, as the only solutions possible are too horrific to consider. At best, it's a "well, if we had just prevented this in the first place" solution, which is entirely unhelpful, since we can't go back in time.

Also, it fails to account for abuses by police when the officer and citizen are of the same race/culture. Which does happen a significant enough portion of the time that the underlying nature of the relationship between officer and citizen doesn't rely on race/culture.

[Quark Blast]

thejeff wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

Thanks for asking for clarification.

My point was that, due in part to stringent immigration policies in Australia, their society is more homogeneous than the USA's. A common people being policed by members of that common society will have far less friction than what we see in our "melting pot".

People (and cops are people) are inherently less friendly towards people of other culture/background. Certain subcultures take offense with minimal provocation. Check Out Joey Salads' Experiment to see a ham-handed testing of this phenomenon.

Europe is now getting a good dose of what we have as part of our 'normal' culture. Only they seemingly deal with it by pretending it doesn't exist. I would rather our social problems make the evening news every night rather than be like it is in (e.g.) France. In greater-Paris, when the number of burning cars each night drops down to 300 or so the situation is no longer newsworthy.

Modern immigration policies have very little to do with the US not being a homogeneous society or with our problems with policing. For the most obvious example, the vast majority of our black population aren't recent immigrants - but in fact descendants of those brought here as slaves. Like, one assumes, the girl who was pepper sprayed.

Our immigration policy has always been somewhat lax because we could afford to be (pressure release by disregarding native cultures and pushing further west - not saying it was right but only that it was an option and frequently exercised). Most of the immigrant issues subside by the 3rd generation with a few leftovers (Sicilian Mafia anyone?).

I would argue though that our current immigration policies (not the ones on the books but the way our government actually exercises enforcement of those laws), do indeed create unfortunate tensions, especially in California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Florida.

Really the worst thing to be in this country at this time is poor. Being poor and uneducated is more than doubling down on "worst". There aren't a lot of good jobs for uneducated people anymore. A living wage is almost synonymous with saying you have a four year college degree.

This then wraps back around to sub-culture. If you are poor, and come from a sub-culture that doesn't promote education and achievement, then (all things being equal) your prospects are dim.

[Quark Blast]

Irontruth wrote:

Blaming it on immigration is also a scapegoat. There's no solution to make the US one "culture" without depriving massive numbers of peoples their rights (and/or lives). It's a pointless road to go down, as the only solutions possible are too horrific to consider. At best, it's a "well, if we had just prevented this in the first place" solution, which is entirely unhelpful, since we can't go back in time.

Also, it fails to account for abuses by police when the officer and citizen are of the same race/culture. Which does happen a significant enough portion of the time that the underlying nature of the relationship between officer and citizen doesn't rely on race/culture.

As an analogy: It's not just boot camp that makes Marines different from Soldiers; it's the recruiting culture that brings in "like minds" to begin with.

Police culture is attractive to certain types of people.

I had a friend my freshman and sophomore years who drove a crappy Ford Taurus. He got pulled over five times for nothing, plus one false speeding ticket, in the first 6 months. Then he got a first generation Prius from an older (now non-driving) relative and hasn't got pulled over once since. And I can tell you from personal experience his driving didn't suddenly improve with acquisition of the Prius.

[BigNorseWolf]

Quark Blast wrote:

As an analogy: It's not just boot camp that makes Marines different from Soldiers; it's the recruiting culture that brings in "like minds" to begin with.

I remember in the ROTC building (i was just there for the vending machine) there was a posting for recruitment. Next to almost half the classes, physics, chemistry, sociology was an asterix. You read down the list and hit the bottom

*not required for marines.

[Spastic Puma]

Fun fact: Statistically speaking, the demographic most likely to assault an officer in my part of the country is intoxicated, overweight, white women.

[Freehold DM]

Aranna wrote:

Yeah to some extent I agree Fergie. They should pass a law protecting the police from punitive damages only. If the cops broke your foot then they should be sueable for the medical costs, but letting people sue for millions because some jerk uses excessive force is just a sneaky way to impoverish the whole community just so you can get rich quick.

I would rather the department be on the financial hook than the taxpayer. What you suggest is little more than making the taxpayer pay less for their violent jerk.

[thejeff]

Freehold DM wrote:

Aranna wrote:

Yeah to some extent I agree Fergie. They should pass a law protecting the police from punitive damages only. If the cops broke your foot then they should be sueable for the medical costs, but letting people sue for millions because some jerk uses excessive force is just a sneaky way to impoverish the whole community just so you can get rich quick.

I would rather the department be on the financial hook than the taxpayer. What you suggest is little more than making the taxpayer pay less for their violent jerk.

Thing is, you can't really put the department on the hook. The department gets its budget from the taxpayer. Unexpected expenses like that need to be covered. If you try to make departments pay out of their normal budget, that just means cutbacks - probably not to the areas you want them to cut back.

[BigNorseWolf]

But if the money comes from the cop the cops going to prefer a dead suspect that tells no tales to a live one he can probably impugn in court.

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Do Not Resist: new film shows how US police have become an occupying army

[Thomas Seitz]

*respects Rysky's authority* Also probably right about the police becoming more reactive than pro-active.

[mechaPoet]

"Bad" cops are guilty of rape, murder, and child sexual assault.

"Good" cops are still issuing financial and legal penalties for racialized non-violent drug use and homelessness without touching the rich and the white.

Actually "good" cops are POC who criticize the messed up racism and violence of the police, are shunned and ostracized by other police.

The purpose of the police force is to preserve the capitalist, racist, sexist status quo through state violence. The iconic sheriff badge directly descends from state-deputized slave-catcher bounty hunter and very little has changed about their purpose since then.

ACAB

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fergie]

These are the police in NYC that have spoken out:
100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care
100 out of 30,000 is a start...

[Quark Blast]

mechaPoet wrote:

"Bad" cops are guilty of rape, murder, and child sexual assault.

"Good" cops are still issuing financial and legal penalties for racialized non-violent drug use and homelessness without touching the rich and the white.

Actually "good" cops are POC who criticize the messed up racism and violence of the police, are shunned and ostracized by other police.

The purpose of the police force is to preserve the capitalist, racist, sexist status quo through state violence. The iconic sheriff badge directly descends from state-deputized slave-catcher bounty hunter and very little has changed about their purpose since then.

ACAB

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tell that to the families of the cops who died on 9/11/2001.

I expect at least 1/3 of our nation's police are good in the sense that they do their dead level best yet make mistakes common to all.

The "Good" and "good" cops you describe are a serious minority, though I'll grant they are all too common. And certainly there are local jurisdictions that are far worse than the average.

I've been harassed twice by cops (so far). One backed down after I politely called the behavior as I saw it. The other "detained" me (using a "wait here please", so I did) and then came back and let me on my way. In neither case did they ask for my ID (which I would have refused unless they were going to charge me with something).

[Deadmanwalking]

mechaPoet wrote:

"Bad" cops are guilty of rape, murder, and child sexual assault.

I can substitute literally any sufficiently large demographic group or profession for 'police' and this statement remains true.

mechaPoet wrote:

"Good" cops are still issuing financial and legal penalties for racialized non-violent drug use and homelessness without touching the rich and the white.

Uh...no. The issues you describe are certainly real, but blaming cops for them is seriously inaccurate. The fact that cops do all the things you list is just a side effect of society as a whole doing all the things you list. Most random cops aren't any more to blame for the existence of the war on drugs than you or I, just for example.

mechaPoet wrote:

Actually "good" cops are POC who criticize the messed up racism and violence of the police, are shunned and ostracized by other police.

Whoah, wait a minute, are you saying all white police officers are inherently bad people? Because that is a seriously f~+~ed up thing to say.

mechaPoet wrote:

The purpose of the police force is to preserve the capitalist, racist, sexist status quo through state violence.

Not precisely. Their job is to enforce whatever status quo there is through state violence. Given that said status quo says that murder and child abuse are wrong (just for example), defending it is not exactly an unalloyed evil. It's certainly not an unalloyed good either, and how much the good parts are defended as opposed to the bad parts varies a lot by the individual cop. Some are awful people and others are wonderful people...just like most other groups.

mechaPoet wrote:

The iconic sheriff badge directly descends from state-deputized slave-catcher bounty hunter and very little has changed about their purpose since then.

ACAB

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

B#!*!!&#. Not necessarily the origin story (which I'm admittedly dubious about, but that'd be way off topic), but the implication. Sure, this is true some places, because, y'know, racism is a real thing. But inherent in the office? No.

People can and do become police or sheriffs for idealistic reasons and then stick to their guns once they succeed in becoming such. Not all people who achieve those positions, obviously, but certainly a fair number.

'Othering' the police like this is not useful, productive, or remotely fair, and will only add to the growing distance between the police and the communities they are supposed to be part of...which is a large part of how the increasing militarization of the police actually functions. It's hard to act like an occupying army when dealing with a community you see yourself as part of.

In short, acknowledging the problems with a demographic group's behavior is a good way to work towards fixing them, but saying that all members of the group are evil and irredeemable is almost always both inaccurate and actively counterproductive.

[Aranna]

The origin of the modern police force was in Britain and had nothing to do with slavery.

[thejeff]

All of which is why I keep talking about the system being broken rather than about good and bad cops. Bad cops don't exist on their own. They wouldn't be a big problem if they weren't protected and supported, not just by other individual cops, but by their superiors, by politicians, by prosecutors, by the law in many cases.

The good thing about that is that hard as it is to change systems, it's easier that changing large numbers of bad individuals acting on their own.

[CBDunkerson]

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

[Sissyl]

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

[thejeff]

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

[Orfamay Quest]

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Only in the sense that there were doctors in all European societies from way, way back, but the doctors in 1200 are nothing like the ones you see in 2016. The role, the duties, and the expected behavior has changed radically.

In particular, police didn't "patrol" until the 19th century. The idea that you had enough manpower -- and it was, of course, MANpower back then -- that you could have someone just wandering around on the off-chance that something could happen, or prevent a crime (or even intervene while it was in progress) -- would have been ludicrous before Bobby Peel.

[Orfamay Quest]

thejeff wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

Goodness, the Sheriff of Nottingham is known to every eight year old in the English-speaking world. What do you think he was, if not law enforcement?

[Rysky]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

Goodness, the Sheriff of Nottingham is known to every eight year old in the English-speaking world. What do you think he was, if not law enforcement?

*looks at law enforcement then*

*looks at law enforcement now*

Makes sense.

[Orfamay Quest]

Rysky wrote:

Orfamay Quest wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

Goodness, the Sheriff of Nottingham is known to every eight year old in the English-speaking world. What do you think he was, if not law enforcement?

*looks at law enforcement then*

*looks at law enforcement now*

Makes sense.

Yeah. I mean, they had priests in Babylon,.... but no one is going to confuse one of those with the vicar of Little Tonker, Loamshire.

[Comrade Anklebiter]

70 Years Ago Today (Last Month Actually), WWII Vets Took Up Arms Against Corrupt Cops and Ran Them Out of Town

[Misroi]

Rysky wrote:

Orfamay Quest wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

Goodness, the Sheriff of Nottingham is known to every eight year old in the English-speaking world. What do you think he was, if not law enforcement?

*looks at law enforcement then*

*looks at law enforcement now*

Makes sense.

The Sheriff of Nottingham would have loved civil forfeiture.

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Trailer for another good-looking doc:

The 13th

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Do Not Resist: new film shows how US police have become an occupying army

I'm pretty sure the woman in the trailer at the 2:25 mark is the same woman as in this video.

[Captain Battletoad]

Any thoughts on the (relatively) recently released video of the El Cajon shooting?

[Knight who says Meh]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Orfamay Quest wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

As strange as it may sound, there were policemen in all European societies from way, way back.

Examples? Cause from what I know, whatever there was wasn't really anything at all like modern police.

Goodness, the Sheriff of Nottingham is known to every eight year old in the English-speaking world. What do you think he was, if not law enforcement?

*looks at law enforcement then*

*looks at law enforcement now*

Makes sense.

Yeah. I mean, they had priests in Babylon,.... but no one is going to confuse one of those with the vicar of Little Tonker, Loamshire.

I am always mixing those two up.

[Orfamay Quest]

Knight who says Meh wrote:

Orfamay Quest wrote:

I mean, they had priests in Babylon,.... but no one is going to confuse one of those with the vicar of Little Tonker, Loamshire.

I am always mixing those two up.

Well, the one in the funny clothes is.... both of them, really.

[Quark Blast]

CBDunkerson wrote:

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

I Agree. Here's a relevant link and that one also.

"Hate Crime" for Pro-police Views

I put hate crime in quotes since, in cases like that, how does one commit such a crime and not hate the person being beaten?

John Oliver on Police

His relevent comments are surrounded by irrelevant "humorous" asides and peppered with NSFW language but, ignoring all that, he mostly makes good sense.

One part that doesn't make much sense is his statement at the end that "a few bad apples (cops) spoil the whole barrel (police force)". Apply that logic to the (crazy) Islamic clerics preaching jihad* and you see how far the logic gets you.

I happen to agree with John's argument but wish it could be effectively applied to clerics of hate too. The price of free speech.

* Egypt arrests and jails clerics who do that. In the west our law enforcement sometimes talks to them. And sure, the NSA tracks them but then the NSA tracks all of us.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed a handful of posts and the responses/resulting discussion. This subject is one that can easily escalate and get heated, we ask that participants refrain from negative hyperbole in reference to all the participants on this thread and from dishing out personal insults. If you find yourself in a situation where a post is causing you to "see red", it's likely a good idea to take a moment away from the keyboard and come back to it later, flag it for our moderation team to review (or contact [e-mail]), or hide the thread.

[Freehold DM]

Quark Blast wrote:

CBDunkerson wrote:

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

I Agree. Here's a relevant link and that one also.

"Hate Crime" for Pro-police Views

I put hate crime in quotes since, in cases like that, how does one commit such a crime and not hate the person being beaten?

I'm a bit suspicious of this one. The article is missing a lot of information.

[Quark Blast]

Freehold DM wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

CBDunkerson wrote:

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

I Agree. Here's a relevant link and that one also.

"Hate Crime" for Pro-police Views

I put hate crime in quotes since, in cases like that, how does one commit such a crime and not hate the person being beaten?

I'm a bit suspicious of this one. The article is missing a lot of information.

I can see that.

OTOH this is grade school where beatings often need little provocation.

[Caineach]

Quark Blast wrote:

CBDunkerson wrote:

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

I Agree. Here's a relevant link and that one also.

"Hate Crime" for Pro-police Views

I put hate crime in quotes since, in cases like that, how does one commit such a crime and not hate the person being beaten?

John Oliver on Police

His relevent comments are surrounded by irrelevant "humorous" asides and peppered with NSFW language but, ignoring all that, he mostly makes good sense.

One part that doesn't make much sense is his statement at the end that "a few bad apples (cops) spoil the whole barrel (police force)". Apply that logic to the (crazy) Islamic clerics preaching jihad* and you see how far the logic gets you.

I happen to agree with John's argument but wish it could be effectively applied to clerics of hate too. The price of free speech.

* Egypt arrests and jails clerics who do that. In the west our law enforcement sometimes talks to them. And sure, the NSA tracks them but then the NSA tracks all of us.

are you not familiar with the phrase "a few bad apples spoil the bunch"? The off-gasses of a spoiled apples promote spoilage in the other apples. The cops are using the "few bad apples" as their defense, when the phrase that is derived from is specifically about how that ruins the lot of them. Whether that phrase is correct to use for people is another question, but the cops are the ones using it to describe themselves, and he is just pointing out the hypocrisy of it.

[Quark Blast]

Caineach wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

CBDunkerson wrote:

John Oliver had a good segment on this issue last night.

I Agree. Here's a relevant link and that one also.

"Hate Crime" for Pro-police Views

I put hate crime in quotes since, in cases like that, how does one commit such a crime and not hate the person being beaten?

John Oliver on Police

His relevent comments are surrounded by irrelevant "humorous" asides and peppered with NSFW language but, ignoring all that, he mostly makes good sense.

One part that doesn't make much sense is his statement at the end that "a few bad apples (cops) spoil the whole barrel (police force)". Apply that logic to the (crazy) Islamic clerics preaching jihad* and you see how far the logic gets you.

I happen to agree with John's argument but wish it could be effectively applied to clerics of hate too. The price of free speech.

* Egypt arrests and jails clerics who do that. In the west our law enforcement sometimes talks to them. And sure, the NSA tracks them but then the NSA tracks all of us.

are you not familiar with the phrase "a few bad apples spoil the bunch"? The off-gasses of a spoiled apples promote spoilage in the other apples. The cops are using the "few bad apples" as their defense, when the phrase that is derived from is specifically about how that ruins the lot of them. Whether that phrase is correct to use for people is another question, but the cops are the ones using it to describe themselves, and he is just pointing out the hypocrisy of it.

No, not the hypocrisy. The inanity of it.

Ignorantly using the turn of phrase in it's shortened form gets its use exactly backwards (as I think you and John are pointing out).

John also indicates that the phrase, used appropriately, applies directly to the police force.

My lament is, that because of the social need for free speech, we cannot usefully apply the "bad apples" idea to the Islamic clerics preaching jihad. If we didn't value free speech so highly we could shut down the purveyors of hate. Alas that is a path best not taken - too many pitfalls lie that way.

[Orfamay Quest]

Quark Blast wrote:

My lament is, that because of the social need for free speech, we cannot usefully apply the "bad apples" idea to the Islamic clerics preaching jihad. If we didn't value free speech so highly we could shut down the purveyors of hate. Alas that is a path best not taken - too many pitfalls lie that way.

Except that we couldn't. Suppressing ideas isn't a very good way to make them go away -- in fact, it makes them much more resilient, partly due to the lure of forbidden fruit, and partly because it makes people who already have unpopular ideas more likely to buy into them as well. On the other hand, suppressing behavior is a pretty good way to keep people from behaving in bad ways.

The best solution to purveyors of hate is education, not suppression. Unfortunately, that's one of the longest-term solutions as well. Also unfortunately, there are a number of short-term thinkers in policy-making positions who think that taking such an approach shows weakness. But this isn't by any stretch of the imagination new. Chuck Colson is famously supposed to have said (he didn't, by the way) "when you have got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." We've seen how well that approach worked in Vietnam; why will it work any better in Syria?

[Quark Blast]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

Quark Blast wrote:

My lament is, that because of the social need for free speech, we cannot usefully apply the "bad apples" idea to the Islamic clerics preaching jihad. If we didn't value free speech so highly we could shut down the purveyors of hate. Alas that is a path best not taken - too many pitfalls lie that way.

Except that we couldn't. Suppressing ideas isn't a very good way to make them go away -- in fact, it makes them much more resilient, partly due to the lure of forbidden fruit, and partly because it makes people who already have unpopular ideas more likely to buy into them as well. On the other hand, suppressing behavior is a pretty good way to keep people from behaving in bad ways.

The best solution to purveyors of hate is education, not suppression. Unfortunately, that's one of the longest-term solutions as well. Also unfortunately, there are a number of short-term thinkers in policy-making positions who think that taking such an approach shows weakness. But this isn't by any stretch of the imagination new. Chuck Colson is famously supposed to have said (he didn't, by the way) "when you have got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow." We've seen how well that approach worked in Vietnam; why will it work any better in Syria?

Right. My lament is that it's not an easy fix. It's both hard to implement and hard to follow through on.

As for Syria, Putin is getting his way for now. Time will tell if it looks better than Iraq in 10 years.

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Trailer for another good-looking doc:

The 13th

Stories on the doc on Democracy Now:

From Slavery to Mass Incarceration, Ava DuVernay's Film "13th" Examines Racist U.S. Justice System

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Protests Mount After Teen Carnell Snell Jr. Shot and Killed By LAPD

[BigNorseWolf]

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Protests Mount After Teen Carnell Snell Jr. Shot and Killed By LAPD

Stole a car, Ran from police. Had a gun.

You can't get upset at police EVERY time they shoot someone, just as the police can't rally around to protect their own every time they shoot someone. It makes it look like you've picked sides no matter what the facts are.

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Original reports claimed that Keith Lamont Scott had a gun in his hand; original reports claimed that Alfred Ojango pointed a gun at police.

Maybe Carnell did, maybe he didn't.

Let's see if the story stays the same after a week of protests.

In the meantime, I'll keep posting stories I run across until this thread gets locked.

[BigDTBone]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Protests Mount After Teen Carnell Snell Jr. Shot and Killed By LAPD

Stole a car, Ran from police. Had a gun.

You can't get upset at police EVERY time they shoot someone, just as the police can't rally around to protect their own every time they shoot someone. It makes it look like you've picked sides no matter what the facts are.

It doesn't say he stole a car. It says that the police suspected the paper tags were stolen. Which is complete bs garbage. There is absolutely no way the police would have any indication that a paper tag was stolen. They were straight up profiled. But, let's assume the police were correct (which there is no chance of because IF they were they would be screaming it from the rooftops), that crime isn't a capital offense.

Second, he was running away. People running away don't point guns on account of being busy running away and all. Police do not say he pointed the gun, police don't say they even saw the gun, police don't even say it was on him, police don't even say it was his gun, they ONLY said that a gun was recovered from the scene. Unless they have his prints underneath the slide, or on the clip, or some other not-the-outside part of the gun, I don't buy it. But let's assume it was his, and he was carrying it, having a gun isn't a capital offense.

None of the things you said add up to, "kill this person." AND EVEN IF THEY WERE capital crimes, he is still supposed to be afforded a jury trial.

The cops f~~+ed up. They should have let the guys run away, stayed with the car, impounded it, and investigated their harebrained theory about stolen paper tags. When someone comes to the police impound to pick up the car then question them about involvement in police evasion.

[bugleyman]

People should take responsibility for their own actions.

YOU put your face in the way of that pepper spray. YOU had your body in the same space as that cop's bullet. YOU are the one who decided to leave your house and walk the streets, despite being black.

</sarcasm> (because Poe's Law)

[Comrade Anklebiter]

Ramsey Orta, who filmed death of Eric Garner, sentenced to four years in prison for drugs and weapons charges

[Aranna]

Police can usually check your plates automatically now by snapping a photo of your plate from the comfort of their car and the onboard computer then pulls up all the DMV and police info on the owner. If it has a valid tag but the computer thinks the plate is expired they then pull you over and ask for registration because they suspect you stole the tags.

So that part is probably accurate.

[Guy Humual]

Comrade Anklebiter wrote:

Ramsey Orta, who filmed death of Eric Garner, sentenced to four years in prison for drugs and weapons charges

Hey someone went to jail for the Eric Garner case.