| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm in the writing-stage of planning a future home-brew game, loosely based on Colonial America. Here, Orcs are playing the role of Native Americans. I'm purposely making them a bit over-powered compared to the Core races, but players only have a 1-in-8 chance of being able to choose them as their race - they're mostly intended to be an NPC race. I'm looking for thoughts on the balance of the race. For reference to the Ley Line Adept racial trait, Ley Lines are quite plentiful; there's generally about a 30% chance that a given location takes place in the area of a ley line (which follow the rules from Occult Adventures).
Egrond Orcs -
Ability Score Racial Traits: +4 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Cha (4RP)
Type: Humanoid with the Orc subtype
Size: Medium
Base Speed: 30'
Languages: Begin play with Common and Orc. High Int mods can learn Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, Sylvan, and Terran.
Spirit of the Land: Choose a terrain type at character creation, and gain a +2 Dodge bonus to AC and a +4 Racial bonus to Stealth while within that terrain type. In addition, natural difficult terrain in this terrain type doesn't slow movement. Magical difficult terrain still affects you normally. (4RP)
Shamanistic: Spellcraft and Survival are considered Class Skills. (1RP)
Ley Line Adept: Gain a +2 Racial bonus on Spellcraft checks to become attuned to a Ley Line, gain a +2 bonus on Concentration checks and a +1 bonus to CL for spells/effects (in addition to the specific Ley Line's CL bonus). Once per day while in the area of a Ley Line, cast a spell with one of the following Metamagic effects without increasing the casting time or the spell level: Enlarge, Extend, Intuitive, Lingering, Logical, Piercing, Silent, or Still. (4RP)
Ferocity: Remain conscious and Staggered at 0hp or lower, and lose 1hp per round (same as the standard Orc trait). (4RP)
Low-light Vision (1RP)
TOTAL RACIAL POINTS: 18
Does this seem like too strong for a playable race next to the Core races? The Spirit of the Land trait is really just the Bond of the Land, Camouflage, and Terrain Stride traits lumped into 1, and their total is 4. I gave the Ley Line Adept a value of 4, but I could be mistaken - it's the only trait I flat-out made up. Any suggestions? Remember, I did this in the mold of Native Americans if they were in a fantasy setting, and also Orcs.
Ability score seems way too good. Monks would be so amazing, especially with the favored terrain.
The ley line adept might be too strong depending on how common ley lines are in your setting.
Ability score seems way too good. Monks would be so amazing, especially with the favored terrain.
The ley line adept might be too strong depending on how common ley lines are in your setting.
Well, I DO want to make this race a bit stronger than the Core races. Are you saying that it's too good even with that standard?
Quemius: I don't understand your question...I'm basically making a new race modeled after Orcs if they were like Native Americans. How do Half-orcs fit that at all?
How do you plan to enforce the 1 in 8 thing?
On a whole, they seem situationally much better and often a decent amount better. All the abilities are very practical and all tied to one condition, which is both a bonus and a problem. It's much easier to track than dwarves' separate bonuses involving poison, magic, stonework, gem appraisal, giants, orcs, goblins, and trips. However, there is a certain charm in having all these abilities, since it gives the race flavor. I'd say the +4 STR is a bit excessive- people with melee classes are willing to go out of their way to get +2 STR. Instead of +4 STR, +2 WIS, -2 CHA, why not +2 STR, +2 WIS? It still is a leg up on regular people, but it's not as min-maxy. Strength is almost always a welcome stat to have. Also consider adding racial weapon proficiencies.
2 of the following are randomized during character creation (player's choice): Ability Scores, Background (for a limited Trait selection pool), Class, and Race. The only way a player can select Orc is by choosing Race as one of their randomly selected things, and then they must roll Orc (I was mistaken about 1-in-8, it's actually 1-in-7). That's how I'll be enforcing it.
Hmm I see your point for the Ability Scores, but will the extra +2 Str really make that much of a difference beyond your suggested spread? I did consider adding racial weapon proficiencies, but the weapons I'd want to include are the handaxe and throwing axe - are they even worth including the racial trait for? Did you find the Ley Line Adept trait reasonable?
I believe that Quemius is suggesting to just refluff the Half-Orc PC race into your desired Orcs.
the WoW conversion thread has a nice Orc build if I remember right, which the Orcs of WoW do have a Native American feel.
If all their stuff works they're basically a really good race that also gets 2 extra strength.
The other thing to think about is how conditional all their racial features are: If you aren't in your favored terrain and aren't doing ley line stuff you basically have ferocity, low light vision and zero to two class skills based on your class. That's really really bare bones and not impressive.
But if you are in your favored terrain and you're attuned to a ley line in that area you're suddenly competing with drow nobles in terms of racial quality instead.
It feels like you may be exaggerating on both examples a bit...without their favored terrain and ley lines, they're an Orc with better ability scores, a comparable set of senses (balanced by presence/lack of Light Sensativity), and no Weapon Familiarity, plus up to 2 possible class skills. While not necessarily exciting, that seems like breaking even with a standard Orc - though probably a bit better with the ability scores - which seems perfectly fine to me. Drow Nobles have ability scores well beyond these custom Orcs, as well as SLA's coming out their ears (including Constant and At Will), not to mention a bonus to the most used skill in the game, Elven Immunities, Darkvision 120', Poison Use, and more. In the best circumstances, these Custom Orcs have a good bonus to AC and Stealth, and a +1 bonus to their CL and 1 free +1 Metemagic effect 1/day. Really good, obviously, but they don't hold a candle to Drow Nobles...
Having said that, you do make a good point that they're a bit of an all-or-nothing race as is. I will meditate on that.
I believe that Quemius is suggesting to just refluff the Half-Orc PC race into your desired Orcs.
the WoW conversion thread has a nice Orc build if I remember right, which the Orcs of WoW do have a Native American feel.
Thanks for the link - I didn't know that existed. I looked at the Orcs...Eh, they definitely captured WoW Orcs, but I don't think it's what I'm looking for. I'll take another look at it later when I have more time and see if there's anything I missed.
Reminder: I'm purposely making these Orcs BETTER than Core races. They're meant to be a tough NPC race that can be really hard to deal with in certain circumstances. For fun, though, I figured players should have a chance to play one if they get lucky, so I just want to make sure they won't be overshadowing the rest of the party with them. They'll obviously take the spotlight on a Ley Line within their favored terrain, but the life of an adventurer has you traveling all over the place, so that won't be constant.
I get what you want to do, and it is an interesting and flavorful thing for your campaign world.
Perhaps, once you've nailed their overall features, you could do a Drow like option, where you make a slightly toned down version that can take feats to become "full" orcs. Similar to what you can do with Drow and feat up to Drow Noble.
This could be an option for a person that wants an Orc, but doesn't want the chance of rolling a race they detest.
I get what you want to do, and it is an interesting and flavorful thing for your campaign world.
Perhaps, once you've nailed their overall features, you could do a Drow like option, where you make a slightly toned down version that can take feats to become "full" orcs. Similar to what you can do with Drow and feat up to Drow Noble.
This could be an option for a person that wants an Orc, but doesn't want the chance of rolling a race they detest.
There's an idea. I will definitely look into that, thanks!
Thejeff: I've been hesitant about taking that step, although you are right.
I believe that Quemius is suggesting to just refluff the Half-Orc PC race into your desired Orcs.
the WoW conversion thread has a nice Orc build if I remember right, which the Orcs of WoW do have a Native American feel.
Yep, that conversion came out of the original WoW:RPG I believe.
I am OK with you concept, but understand the numbers boys concerns.
Have you considered having the extra 2 strength and possibly the ley-lines ability be more like an obedience benefit?
As long as you avoid using proscribed weapons, you get +2 strength
" magic, you get leylines
What if I made the Ability Score modifiers +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha? It's the same RP cost (though I know that has little significance most of the time). I don't feel that the extra +2 Str was overly dangerous, but enough people here had enough of an issue with it that I could just move it? I guess I really want them to still FEEL like Orcs, and the +4 Str did that best in my head.
I don't sit your table, so I can't fully weigh in, but I'm going to anyway.
At my table, the +4 Str wouldn't be an overpowered issue. My players in recent years have not been looking for system breaking and overpowered combos. They make effective characters and what not, but aren't taking advantage of things like that. The revised Stat bonus also falls into this. It would probably take a minute for them to realize the classes that would work really well with it.
If your table is that kind of casual table or similar then I see no problem with your original scores or new scores.
Your new scores still work well for a nomadic race of the land. It's also awesome stats for a Monk, Martial Cleric, Warpriest, and Ranger. Your ability scores for this race should 100% follow with how you want them, which is a touch stronger yes. And you should balance them with what your players are capable of.
If your group goes the way of making exceptionally powerful characters be prepared to adjust your encounters, and if you only have one or two that do that, be prepared to adjust and help out your other players.
I don't sit your table, so I can't fully weigh in, but I'm going to anyway.
At my table, the +4 Str wouldn't be an overpowered issue. My players in recent years have not been looking for system breaking and overpowered combos. They make effective characters and what not, but aren't taking advantage of things like that. The revised Stat bonus also falls into this. It would probably take a minute for them to realize the classes that would work really well with it.
If your table is that kind of casual table or similar then I see no problem with your original scores or new scores.
Your new scores still work well for a nomadic race of the land. It's also awesome stats for a Monk, Martial Cleric, Warpriest, and Ranger. Your ability scores for this race should 100% follow with how you want them, which is a touch stronger yes. And you should balance them with what your players are capable of.
If your group goes the way of making exceptionally powerful characters be prepared to adjust your encounters, and if you only have one or two that do that, be prepared to adjust and help out your other players.
My players have left their power gaming days behind them and focus more on making thematic builds and interesting character concepts. It's been a long time since I've had to worry about policing their power levels, so I guess that scenario wasn't really crossing my mind. Thanks for your words of +2 wisdom.
If you changed the +4 Str to +2 Str, and got rid of Ferocity (which is a terrible ability for a PC), you would have a 10 RP race.