Carrying Capacity multipliers--how to apply them?

[Leucrotta63]

I am trying to determine how to apply several different multipliers to Carrying Capacity, all on the same character. In this case:

--28 Strength base
--Muleback Cords (adds effective 8 Strength, making it 36 Str)
--Size Large Quadruped (* 3)
--Ant Haul spell (* 3)

Since Str 36 is off the Carrying Capacity chart, we are supposed to multiply the numbers for a Str 26 by 4 to get base carrying capacity. Is that result then * 3 (for large quadruped) and then * 3 again (for Ant Haul)? Or would I add all multipliers together as a single multiplier and then apply only once (4 + 3 + 3 = multiplying a Str 26 capacity * 10)?

It comes out to completely different numbers depending on whether you apply each multiplier one at a time or not...

Also, my DM said you have to be 'under' the weight or somehow already considered 'carrying' it before these benefits apply...in other words, you might be able to carry around a catapult, no problem, but LIFTING it in the first place still only uses your base Strength....

[BigNorseWolf]

I'm not sure that muleback cords and ant haul will stack. Muleback cords use ant haul as the relevant spell for their creation.

[Milo v3]

The multiplication rules it'd be (28 + 8) * (3 + 2) = 36 * 6 = 216 Str.

[Khudzlin]

Milo v3 wrote:

The multiplication rules it'd be (28 + 8) * (3 + 2) = 36 * 6 = 216 Str.

First, the multipliers don't apply to STR, but to carrying capacity (which makes it less broken, given carrying capacity grows exponentially with STR). Second, the special rules for multiplication (a multiplier N adds N-1 times the base value) only apply to multiplying a modifier to a roll. So carrying capacity uses the normal rules. So you start from the carrying capacity for STR 26 (which is 306 lbs / 613 lbs / 920 lbs), and multiply it by 4 (to get the carrying capacity for STR 36), by 3 (for a Large quadruped) and again by 3 (for Ant Haul), for a total of 11016 lbs (light load), 22068 (medium load) and 33120 (max load).

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Muleback cords use ant haul as the relevant spell for their creation.

Nope, they use Bull's Strength.

By the way, since light load and medium load are calculated from max load (1/3 and 2/3 respectively, rounded down) for the values directly in the table, I think they should be calculated in the same way for values off the table (ie round at the end, not in the middle).

[Milo v3]

Khudzlin wrote:

First, the multipliers don't apply to STR

I was obviously talking about strength in terms of carry capacity since we are talking about strength in terms of carry capacity. -.-

Quote:

Second, the special rules for multiplication (a multiplier N adds N-1 times the base value) only apply to multiplying a modifier to a roll. So carrying capacity uses the normal rules. So you start from the carrying capacity for STR 26 (which is 306 lbs / 613 lbs / 920 lbs), and multiply it by 4 (to get the carrying capacity for STR 36), by 3 (for a Large quadruped) and again by 3 (for Ant Haul), for a total of 11016 lbs (light load), 22068 (medium load) and 33120 (max load).

Weird that that only applies to rolls.

[Sah]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I'm not sure that muleback cords and ant haul will stack. Muleback cords use ant haul as the relevant spell for their creation.

As brought up in the other topic, muleback cords use Bull's Strength, not ant haul.

[_Ozy_]

It actually doesn't matter what spell is used during creation. It only matters what sort of bonus is applied by the item.

Muleback cords:

Quote:

The wearer treats his Strength score as 8 higher than normal when determining his carrying capacity.

Ant Haul:

Quote:

The target's carrying capacity triples. This does not affect the creature's actual Strength in any way, merely the amount of material it can carry while benefiting from this spell.

Different effects, stacking isn't a problem.

Now,

Heavyload Belt:

Quote:

The belt’s wearer is affected as though subject to a permanent ant haul spell.

This obviously wouldn't stack with the spell Ant Haul. And yes, it is created with a prerequisite of the spell 'Ant Haul', but that doesn't matter. It's the effect that matters.

[Ravingdork]

You use the first method, Leucrotta63, which should result in the following:
Encumbrance light 11,016 lb. medium 22,068 lb. heavy 33,120 lb.

Milo v3 wrote:

Weird that that only applies to rolls.

It would be far weirder if it didn't.

[burkoJames]

Ravingdork wrote:

You use the first method, Leucrotta63, which should result in the following:

Encumbrance light 11,016 lb. medium 22,068 lb. heavy 33,120 lb.

Milo v3 wrote:

Weird that that only applies to rolls.

It would be far weirder if it didn't.

Not really, multipliers have the base value built into them. when you look at a x2 multiplier that is made up of 1x (base weapon damage or [w]) and 1x (bonus weapon damage equal to [W]). For x3 its 1[W] base plus 2[W] in bonus damage. When you look at combining 2 x3 multipliers you have that 1 [W] base from the weapon twice. so you get rid of it and you end up with 1[W] base and 4[W] bonus, for a total of 5x.

So it would make total sense that carrying capacity multipliers were designed the same way, with a 3x carrying capacity multiplier being, conceptually, your base carrying capacity + a bonus equal to 2 times your carrying capacity. and when you looked at combining carrying capacity multipliers, each multiplier only expected to give you a bonus of (Multiplier - 1).

Its the smart way to look at bonuses that come from separate source materials. The difference here is that one of those multipliers is not a bonus to carrying capacity. Its a modification of the base Carrying capacity because of size and body type. Therefore the full multipliers should be used.

[Anonymous Warrior]

Still though, there's the fun mind picture of this, whateveritis, skipping through the woods with 5 and a half 'squares' of rocks on it's back.

[Sah]

Using similar item and spell stacking I found that at level 20,my mammoth rider's mammoth could drag 2 million pounds or something like that (I'll recheck the math later). Basically 50 str huge quadraped while raging.

[Lynceus]

Is it weird that so many people just assume Muleback Cords use Ant Haul to create?