So, I'm playing in hell's vengeance with my friends (no spoilers, don't worry)
I've got a fairly solid build, which includes hellfire fireballs after taking all the damnation feats. gives a total of -3 metamagic levels, which is like...unprecedented. maximize or dazing for free.
The main question is why I don't see the feats discussed/used more often? Is it the no rezzing thing? I'm really just curious.
I've lurked on the forums for years and have a good idea of most of the popular builds, and really don't ever see these feats discussed.
Thanks!
Well probably because it forces you towards evil and also makes it harder to bring you back to life.
How are you getting -3 though? Can you quote the rules and show how you got that?
My guess is Magical Lineage, Wayang Spell Hunter, and Maleficium with some other Damnation feat.
First two can bring any fireball to -2 metamagic levels. Converting fireball to hellfire damage adds the evil descriptor, letting Maleficium bring it to -3.
sorry, for some reason I thought the last part of the feat that gives +2 CL gave another -1 metamagic for some reason.
Still, as a feat....thats exceptionally powerful. I guess it's the evil thing probably, and the fact that the feats aren't all that great till you can access them all.
Just wondered if there was something more...i dunno, obvious that i was missing
I'm curious as to how you're getting Hellfire Fireballs, is there some sort of ability that lets you transform fire spells into [Evil] spells (and therefore allowing Maleficium to apply to your Fireballs)?
The Diabolist prestige class, I presume.
You can take it starting at 6 and at second level it lets you convert spells a number of times a day equal to your Charisma modifier.
What's very interesting about it is that its level 5 ability might actually remove the penalty for Damnation feats...
yeah, Saethori. That's it exactly, and my DM is allowing that interaction, so at level 5 diabolist I'll be able to be rezzed again.
Since it's an evil campaign anyways, I've mitigated most of the downsides of the feats.
I can post a full build if folks want.
Yes please lol
Very true! fought a boss monster recently in our mummies mask game were 14th Lvl my cleric summoned a celestial t-Rex and it solod the boss in like 4 smite powered bites lol
Few reasons the feats aren't discussed:
1. Evil. Most campaigns don't allow evil.
2. They require a deal to be made in game. You can't just take the feat and say you did it. It typically needs to be RPed within the game and your DM must allow you to summon a devil for such purposes.
3. The no rezzing thing.
Hell's Vengeance is a solid means of being able to make use of the Damnation feats, and it's even recommended in the Player's Guide as I recall. Diabolist is a solid means of bypassing the penalties as well.
So yea, the feats are typically really good, especially if you're an Antipaladin and take Mask of Virtue and Soulless Gaze. Maleficarum is pretty useless for martials, but pretty much everyone can make use of at least 2 of them.
well, the build isnt really totally blasting focused, it's actually a build that is going to be the only primary caster in our group, arcane or divine, so I've come up with something flexible, though it does have its couple main tricks.
Build is Oracle 5 Diabolist 2 so far, probably going back to oracle till oracle 8 then diabolist all the way. 25 point buy for this campaign, so stats are as follows.
Iglitz the Fireborn:
Spirit Guide/Dual Cursed Oracle 5/Diabolist 2
Curses: Blackened/Legalistic
STR 10
DEX 16
CON 10
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 21(23 with stat boost)
Feats
4 damnantion feats:
Fiendskin
Maleficium
Soulless Gaze
Mask of Virtue
Expected feat layout later on is metamagic till 15 then spell perfection, actual specific feats to be decided later (empower, dazing, etc etc
Stone Mystery to start, the revelations aren't amazing but the spells are pretty decent later on with stoneskin and wall of stone as highlights. Touch of Acid revelation is nice at low levels to change damage types, and swapped out later for useful utility like crystal sight to see through walls, or even earthglide. The fact that stone doesn't have many great revelations is actually fine, because I don't have spare feats for extra revelation
Using the archetype ability to grant a wandering spirit allows me access to a huge number of hexes on a daily basis, but for the most part the Lore spirit is used with the Arcane Enlightenment hex to grab 6 arcane spells every day, changeable daily. This lets me function as both arcane and divine, a somewhat better mystic theurge since I don't lose caster levels ever.
Diabolist 2 Grants the imp, who can be a wand of ill omen monkey for me, or various other things, and the ability to turn damage spells into hellfire. It also makes them evil, qualifying for all the maleficium bonuses (-1 metamagic, +2 CL, +2 DC)
Mask of Virtue makes me ping as Good to paladins, which is important in an evil campaign.
Soulless Gaze allows me to demoralize someone past shaken and into panicked if I want, a useful crowd control effect in smaller areas, the moreso because its based on the hugely low intimidate DCs rather than praying the enemy doesn't save. Demoralize as a swift is also nifty.
Fiendskin will make me immune to fire and acid, so I can nuke myself if need be, but will also make me immune to many many spells and effects.
Generally I'll have an option of support, save or suck spells focused on each save (sound burst, murderous command, etc, or blasting with hellfire fireballs.
My expected arcane spells are Invis, Fireball, Haste, Windy Escape, and Limp Lash (cuz i want to try it). The ability to change those spells daily but still cast without having to prepare them is a huge advantage that cannot be undersold. If we need a group buff, I can grab it, or anything else that we require from the sorc/wizard spell list, like Teleport later on, etc.
This is also the reason for int 13, which can be upgraded to 15 via headband, as the arcane enlightenment hex requires the min int to cast the spells, but all the DCs work off cha.
The end result is a hugely flexible caster who doesn't have to worry about only having 1 copy of an important spell when we need it, due to spontaneous casting.
Anyways, I'm interested to know what folks think of the build. It's not a total blaster caster, and I know they are subpar. What it is, is a very very very flexible divine caster with some cherry picked arcane spells. or if I find we need healing I can swap out for channeling and other spirits that might be more use that day.
thanks for reading!