is there anything you can think of that you can't make?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Keeping in entirely fantasy is there any character concepts that pathfinder has yet to have the rules and options to create it in other words can you think of a character that is not easily made by what Paizo has put out thus far? maybe something from a book or from history w/e


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A spell-less bard, a la Fflewder Fflamm. No, a rogue with perform skills doesn't cut it.

A Zhuge Liang-style non-fighter master strategist (in fairness, the game would need more robust mass combat rules to make this guy meet expectations)

A more real-world cultural-style ceremonial shaman, who doesn't cast spells but performs rituals to alter the natural world.

A pure "courtier"- all extant options are either grafted onto martial options (even the Aristocrat class!) or loaded down with magic and/or sneak attacks (bards, rogues, etc.)


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A Witcher. The signs don't tie in with the magus spell list and a magus/alchemist loses too much fighting ability to represent Geralt. It needs a paired down magus archetype build that swaps spell casting for alchemy and Arcana that mimic the signs.


The Sword wrote:
A Witcher. The signs don't tie in with the magus spell list and a magus/alchemist loses too much fighting ability to represent Geralt. It needs a paired down magus archetype build that swaps spell casting for alchemy and Arcana that mimic the signs.

I think a few Investigator archetypes come pretty close to this.


Cole Deschain wrote:

A spell-less bard, a la Fflewder Fflamm. No, a rogue with perform skills doesn't cut it.

A Zhuge Liang-style non-fighter master strategist (in fairness, the game would need more robust mass combat rules to make this guy meet expectations)

A more real-world cultural-style ceremonial shaman, who doesn't cast spells but performs rituals to alter the natural world.

A pure "courtier"- all extant options are either grafted onto martial options (even the Aristocrat class!) or loaded down with magic and/or sneak attacks (bards, rogues, etc.)

those sounds very interesting some are over my head i could definitely see an archtype for bard that replaces spellcasting it would have to give him something awesome to make up for it i'm not sure what that does that would replace it honestly.

master strategist hmm i think there is an opening in pathfinder for a whole class of tacticians give the group buffs team-work feats literally a set back and buff style character similar in effect but greatly diffrent from a bard i could see that.

not sure about courtier maybe if you explained what he would do in a party id have a clearer picture.

rituals does sound interesting you could make a whole book of rituals and archetype for classes to use them. alternate spell casting system


Brew Bird wrote:
The Sword wrote:
A Witcher. The signs don't tie in with the magus spell list and a magus/alchemist loses too much fighting ability to represent Geralt. It needs a paired down magus archetype build that swaps spell casting for alchemy and Arcana that mimic the signs.
I think a few Investigator archetypes come pretty close to this.

was gonna say could you alternatively do it as an archetype for alchemist. but a magus that uses extracts and such i could see we got one that lets a magus be psychic so why not that route.

investigator hmm maybe but the flavor might be off but i never really got into the witcher games so i can't say for sure.


A Necromancer that is all about creating the perfect undead. Generally through the use of alchemy and surgery.


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I can't make a magic-user who casts like magic-users in fiction that isn't directly based on D&D products. At least if I'm limited to Paizo splatbooks.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Brew Bird wrote:
The Sword wrote:
A Witcher. The signs don't tie in with the magus spell list and a magus/alchemist loses too much fighting ability to represent Geralt. It needs a paired down magus archetype build that swaps spell casting for alchemy and Arcana that mimic the signs.
I think a few Investigator archetypes come pretty close to this.

I feel like a witcher would need full BAB. They were the best swordsmen around. So skills, knowledge, tracking, limited spells. Ranger chassis fits, but the spells are wrong.

Silver Crusade

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Vidmaster7 wrote:

Keeping in entirely fantasy is there any character concepts that pathfinder has yet to have the rules and options to create it in other words can you think of a character that is not easily made by what Paizo has put out thus far? maybe something from a book or from history w/e

Aragorn, Gandalf, Sam, Frodo, Gimli, Legolas.

D'artangan, Athos, Porthos

etc etc.

Pathfinder isn't a particularly good game system to replicate most fantasy fiction.


Still can't do most of Cu Chulainn or do Roland's "cut a pass through the mountain". Lassoing a tornado. Diverting a river by grabbing it and bending it. Those are what I remember from the "no, seriously, fighters are just as fantastical in myth/legend" thread. Still not available options.

Actually, another one I've always wanted to see was the "jump between flying enemies without needing flight". The problem is there's no way to represent grabbing onto something without grapple (or involuntary mounting?). So there's no way to jump up, grab a passing wyvern's foot, jump off of that wyvern to another, and so on.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
those sounds very interesting some are over my head i could definitely see an archtype for bard that replaces spellcasting it would have to give him something awesome to make up for it i'm not sure what that does that would replace it honestly.

I'd have them be able to learn Masterpieces without having to "give up" non-spell features, or give them bonus social or combat feats, or... something. I just want to be able to run a guy whose songs can draws tears from a stone, but who isn't a secondary "Cure Light Wounds" battery.

Quote:
not sure about courtier maybe if you explained what he would do in a party id have a clearer picture.

It's basically L5R-speak- a courtier is someone who works toward political objectives in the political arena without necessarily knowing how to, say, disarm a trap or backstab somebody in the literal sense... think Littlefinger or Varys from Song of Ice and Fire- absolute garbage in a straight-up fight, but insanely dangerous in their own right. Could maybe be a Vigilante archetype that gives up the Vigilante identity and broad weapon/armor proficiencies for increased and broader social talents.


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Breakfast.
A modern Final Fantasy that doesn't suck.

Oh, in the Pathfinder rules set?

lots of stuff.

Liberty's Edge

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Cole Deschain wrote:
A spell-less bard, a la Fflewder Fflamm. No, a rogue with perform skills doesn't cut it.

What's needed to cut it? I'm curious.

Cole Deschain wrote:
A Zhuge Liang-style non-fighter master strategist (in fairness, the game would need more robust mass combat rules to make this guy meet expectations)

Yeah, this one remains sadly out of reach. There are a few Archetypes that manage something vaguely similar, but nothing really good.

Cole Deschain wrote:
A more real-world cultural-style ceremonial shaman, who doesn't cast spells but performs rituals to alter the natural world.

Occult Rituals basically make this available, actually.

Cole Deschain wrote:
A pure "courtier"- all extant options are either grafted onto martial options (even the Aristocrat class!) or loaded down with magic and/or sneak attacks (bards, rogues, etc.)

A Phantom Thief Rogue with mediocre to bad physical stats is basically this. Just for the record. I mean, they have mid BAB and light armor proficiency, but can be built with literally no other combat abilities whatsoever. Build one with Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10 and your combat prowess even at mid to high levels is basically crap, I mean +9/+4 to hit with a dagger for 1d4-1 damage is pretty much completely pathetic, and that's the 14th level version.

Lavawight wrote:
Brew Bird wrote:
The Sword wrote:
A Witcher. The signs don't tie in with the magus spell list and a magus/alchemist loses too much fighting ability to represent Geralt. It needs a paired down magus archetype build that swaps spell casting for alchemy and Arcana that mimic the signs.
I think a few Investigator archetypes come pretty close to this.
I feel like a witcher would need full BAB. They were the best swordsmen around. So skills, knowledge, tracking, limited spells. Ranger chassis fits, but the spells are wrong.

Eh. Investigators are really good at combat, actually. They wind up with on par to-hit bonuses than Fighters do. Probably still not quite what you're looking for, but seems worth noting.


Playing in a kind of "Marvel's Avengers" campaign.
I was able to figure out how to do Captain America, the Black Widow, Hawk-eye, Thor, and Hulk builds.

Not so sure how to build the Vision, Scarlet Witch and Quick Silver.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
What's needed to cut it? I'm curious.

Bardic Performance, access to Masterpieces, Bardic Knowledge, a lack of Sneak Attack... You can "cut it" by running a normal Bard and never casting a single spell, but I'd rather get more performance options to make up for consciously handicapping yourself like that..

Quote:
Occult Rituals basically make this available, actually.

But not as a mystically inclined character's primary magical schtick.

Quote:
A Phantom Thief Rogue with mediocre to bad physical stats is basically this.

Not really. Still too focused on the physical.

I cannot build Lady Kaede as a Phantom Thief.


A 3.5 Factotum.

Investigator is close with some mechanics being tied with INT but it doesn't really replicate other class features.

Medium replicates somehow other class features but the fluff is too different and you have to choose a daily focus.

Liberty's Edge

Cole Deschain wrote:
Bardic Performance, access to Masterpieces, Bardic Knowledge, a lack of Sneak Attack... You can "cut it" by running a normal Bard and never casting a single spell, but I'd rather get more performance options to make up for consciously handicapping yourself like that..

Yeah, that's definitely not available. Sadly.

Cole Deschain wrote:
But not as a mystically inclined character's primary magical schtick.

I dunno. A 4 level caster could easily have this as their main magical schtick, focus on it, and be quite effective at it and cool thematically to boot. You could probably manage something pretty solidly fun and thematic in this vein with Medium.

Cole Deschain wrote:

Not really. Still too focused on the physical.

I cannot build Lady Kaede as a Phantom Thief.

I dunno about Lady Kaede (not familiar with the name), but I can make Littlefinger or Varys as one casually. They have almost literally no Class Abilities that actually help with physical stuff. I mean, I guess they get Evasion and Uncanny Dodge...but those are pretty easy to ignore. Especially if you have Dex and Con 10-12 and Str no higher than 10.

Seriously, I can build something and prove it if you'd like.


Shawn Spencer


A Dragon Knight.
Basically a martial character with a Dragon companion that grows along with you. Like a ranger, except instead of bonus feats and spells, you get a really powerful companion creature.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
I dunno about Lady Kaede (not familiar with the name)

Ran. Treat yourself.

Quote:
Seriously, I can build something and prove it if you'd like.

If you would, 'cause I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a pared-down rogue with fortunate birth.

Quote:
I dunno. A 4 level caster could easily have this as their main magical schtick, focus on it, and be quite effective at it and cool thematically to boot. You could probably manage something pretty solidly fun and thematic in this vein with Medium.

I think it's the Vancian-derived spellcasting tacked onto the idea that I dislike so much.

I also like the idea of a character cobbling up a ritual for a given situation based upon an understanding of theory, rather than picking off of a pre-selected list. Much like the Zhuge Liang idea, it's not one this particular system really embraces.


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A martial shape-shifter without spells.

A martial who's actually worth his supposed CR past level 15 or so.


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Tyinyk wrote:

A Dragon Knight.

Basically a martial character with a Dragon companion that grows along with you. Like a ranger, except instead of bonus feats and spells, you get a really powerful companion creature.

Legacy of Dragons has a Dragon Rider archetpye that does this.


Cole Deschain wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
What's needed to cut it? I'm curious.

Bardic Performance, access to Masterpieces, Bardic Knowledge, a lack of Sneak Attack... You can "cut it" by running a normal Bard and never casting a single spell, but I'd rather get more performance options to make up for consciously handicapping yourself like that..

Quote:
Occult Rituals basically make this available, actually.

But not as a mystically inclined character's primary magical schtick.

Quote:
A Phantom Thief Rogue with mediocre to bad physical stats is basically this.

Not really. Still too focused on the physical.

I cannot build Lady Kaede as a Phantom Thief.

Variant Multiclassing bard + martial class of choice?


My group doesn't do third party stuff.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Legacy of Dragons isn't third-party...


No? The only Dragon Rider class I found was third party. I'll look into it more.

Scarab Sages

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Bardic Performance, access to Masterpieces, Bardic Knowledge, a lack of Sneak Attack... You can "cut it" by running a normal Bard and never casting a single spell, but I'd rather get more performance options to make up for consciously handicapping yourself like that..

Yeah, that's definitely not available. Sadly.

Sensei monk or exemplar brawler is pretty close. Both get parodic performance, can take masterpieces with feats, and don't have spells. You don't have bardic knowledge, but you can cover that with feats or you could go with perfect scholar monk instead.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The death knight/dark knight/shadow knight/etc. from warcraft/final fantasy/everquest. Even 3.5's bone knight, really. The antipaladin doesn't do a good job because of its heavy emphasis on being an upside down paladin and the magus doesn't do a good job because it's very blasting oriented and incredibly hard to get heavy armor with. You'd need some sort heavy armor wearing debuff focused magus or whatever to really pull it off.

The necrologist spiritualist picking up a feat for heavy armor does an okay job approximating the first concept, but only okayishly.


-a character that can use exotic fighting techniques (written mostly because its in the fighter flavor text. You can build to use multiple abilities but they are neither exotic nor learned since you just use maneuvers better with feats)

-a master planner character

- a character focused on trickery and underhanded techniques (no I don't think dirty trick cuts it)

-a class that is focused on knowledge but not magic

- not a thematic concept but I'd like a character that gets a pool that can be used to buff themselves or get other abilities, a pathfinder version of incarnum basically

-basically any character based on non combat but that's more the system than the classes

Also who else realized that things that they were going to put down technically exists but barely scratches the surface of your desired concept?


Not represented: Many of the characters from Tales of the Malazan, Book of the Fallen. Admittedly the characters are rather epic in nature. Specifically D'ivers.

Master Planner/Strategist isn't a set of character rules but how one plays a character and I would find it sad to try to make into a character "class".

Pathfinder Incarnum style magic was made by Dreamscarred Press with their Akashic line.


Sir Roland slicing a hole in a mountain.


Niztael wrote:

Master Planner/Strategist isn't a set of character rules but how one plays a character and I would find it sad to try to make into a character "class".

Pathfinder Incarnum style magic was made by Dreamscarred Press with their Akashic line.

If they did make one pathfinder wouldn't be the first game, I think 7th sea has that sort of abilities. It would defiantly save the rest of the table hours of time watching the one mastermind character finding the right people, exploiting their weaknesses to get them to your side and finally getting to the right person to poison the king or whatever their plan was. It is also a concept that's locked to the player's abilities, not the characters and people said the same thing about charismatic character. I won't talk about this more lest this inspires plot derailment.

For the incarnum style magic comment I could also use the 3.5 book with minimal change. I assume that this thread was first party and I want to see what the pathfinder team can do if they made a full subsystem.

Edit: to stay on topic a knight with a flying companion. From what I can remember you can't get a cavalier with a flying mount

Liberty's Edge

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Cole Deschain wrote:
If you would, 'cause I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing a pared-down rogue with fortunate birth.

Sure, here's a 11th level build using Unchained Rogue, 20 point-buy, and PC wealth:

Spoiler:
CR 11
Human Unchained Rogue (Phantom Thief) 11
NE Medium Humanoid
Init +1; Senses Perception +17

DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 18 (+7 Armor, +1 Dex, +1 Natural Armor)
HP 64 (11d8+11)
Fort +9, Ref +13, Will +13
Special Defenses evasion, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge,

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Dagger +10/+5 (1d4+1/19-20)

STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 12*, Int 18*, Wis 16*, Cha 20*
BAB +8; CMB +7 (+9 w/ weapon); CMD 18
Feats Deceitful, Iron Will, Persuasive, Sense Assumptions, Sense Relationships, Skill Focus (Bluff), Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Skill Focus (Sense Motive), Street Smarts,
Skills: Appraise +10, Bluff +39, Diplomacy +39, Disguise +26/46, Intimidate +31, Knowledge (Local) +27, Knowledge (Nobility) +18, Knowledge (All others) +8, Perception +17, Perform (Oratory) +27, Linguistics +16, Profession (Courtier) +17, Stealth +6, Sense Motive +32, Use Magic Device +12/22*
Languages Common, 12 other languages,
Special focused study, silver tongued, finesse training, rogue talents (skill focus x1, many guises, shades of grey, hidden mind), refined education (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Knowledge-Local, Perform-Oratory, all have skill unlocks and are considered to have 15 ranks for that purpose), skill mastery (Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge-Local, Knowledge-Nobility, Linguistics, Perform-Oratory, Profession-Courtier, Sense Motive)
Combat Gear potions of cure moderate wounds (2), wand of glibness (10 charges), wand of invisibility (10 charges), wandf of perceive cues (10 charges),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +5, Glamered Mithral Chain Shirt +3, Ring of Mind Shielding, Ring of Sustenance, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Headband of Mental Perfection +2 (UMD), Circlet of Persuasion, Masterwork Dagger, Belt of Mighty Constitution +2

This character has retrained one Rogue Talent for an Advanced Talent, and can be made a bit worse in combat by ditching some equipment, but I think he sucks enough at it as-is. With Skill Unlocks, he can change attitudes with Diplomacy in a round with a flat 51. That's also his average Bluff check (unless he's prepped with his Wand of Glibness, in which case he gets a 71). He's under constant nondetection and undetectable alignment, and people need to make a DC 22 CL check to tell he's lying even if he somehow loses his ring of mind shielding and can't use glibness for some reason. He can also pretty casually impersonate 'random commoners' and the like with no real chance of detection, read people like a book (including getting the effects of detect thoughts) and is otherwise really just kind of absurd at all social stuff.

What does your ideal Courtier have that this guy can't do?

And, for the record, I could make someone close to as good at social stuff and decent at combat, but that didn't seem to be what you were looking for.

Cole Deschain wrote:

I think it's the Vancian-derived spellcasting tacked onto the idea that I dislike so much.

I also like the idea of a character cobbling up a ritual for a given situation based upon an understanding of theory, rather than picking off of a pre-selected list. Much like the Zhuge Liang idea, it's not one this particular system really embraces.

You can use occult rituals as a non-spellcaster...but yeah, as a primary schtick it's gonna be pretty lacking.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Sure, here's a 11th level build using Unchained Rogue, 20 point-buy, and PC wealth:

** spoiler omitted **...

What does your ideal Courtier have that this guy can't do?

Little Birds.

Vigilante Social Talent-ish ways to float information he wants out there.
Systematized means of squashing rumors. That sort of thing.

EDIT: The funny part, though, is that you DID build someone who can swing most of what Lady Kaede did, so I'm 100% WRONG on that one...

Liberty's Edge

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Cole Deschain wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Sure, here's a 11th level build using Unchained Rogue, 20 point-buy, and PC wealth:

** spoiler omitted **...

What does your ideal Courtier have that this guy can't do?

Little Birds.

Vigilante Social Talent-ish ways to float information he wants out there.
Systematized means of squashing rumors. That sort of thing.

EDIT: The funny part, though, is that you DID build someone who can swing most of what Lady Kaede did, so I'm 100% WRONG on that one...

That version was more Littlefinger than Varys. :)

That said, for a more spymaster version, you can swap out a few Rogue Talents for Rumormonger and Gossip Collector (plus maybe some Reputation Talents) and wind up doing most of what you suggest. Maybe throw on Leadership for an actual spy network.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Sure, here's a 11th level build using Unchained Rogue, 20 point-buy, and PC wealth:

** spoiler omitted **...

What does your ideal Courtier have that this guy can't do?

Little Birds.

Vigilante Social Talent-ish ways to float information he wants out there.
Systematized means of squashing rumors. That sort of thing.

EDIT: The funny part, though, is that you DID build someone who can swing most of what Lady Kaede did, so I'm 100% WRONG on that one...

That version was more Littlefinger than Varys. :)

That said, for a more spymaster version, you can swap out a few Rogue Talents for Rumormonger and Gossip Collector (plus maybe some Reputation Talents) and wind up doing most of what you suggest. Maybe throw on Leadership for an actual spy network.

Reminds me of RavingDork's Jobe the Lesser. Incredible social maneuvering, all those skill unlocks... *drool*


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vorArchivist wrote:
-a class that is focused on knowledge but not magic

This exists: Investigator (sleuth archetype)


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Sure, here's a 11th level build using Unchained Rogue, 20 point-buy, and PC wealth:

** spoiler omitted **...

What does your ideal Courtier have that this guy can't do?

Little Birds.

Vigilante Social Talent-ish ways to float information he wants out there.
Systematized means of squashing rumors. That sort of thing.

EDIT: The funny part, though, is that you DID build someone who can swing most of what Lady Kaede did, so I'm 100% WRONG on that one...

That version was more Littlefinger than Varys. :)

That said, for a more spymaster version, you can swap out a few Rogue Talents for Rumormonger and Gossip Collector (plus maybe some Reputation Talents) and wind up doing most of what you suggest. Maybe throw on Leadership for an actual spy network.

I can't help but think it would be funny to give them an "Oddjob" or "Kato" vigilante minion with "little birds".


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Vidmaster7 wrote:

Keeping in entirely fantasy is there any character concepts that pathfinder has yet to have the rules and options to create it in other words can you think of a character that is not easily made by what Paizo has put out thus far? maybe something from a book or from history w/e

a wushu swordsman... you know that guy that teleports half way across the battlefield and leaves a path of death in his wake. At best right now, you get like 4 dead people... maybe 7 if two-weapon fight... also you can't move...

A caster that uses a greatsword.

A fighter/warrior who uses intelligence as an off-stat instead of charisma(lore wardens and tacticians do not count).

trap based character

a character who uses a battlesuit/mech/living armor/any class that focuses on armor at all.

also, for the extreme, I can't for the life of me figure out how I'd make Crocodile from one-piece, who can drain the water from people with his attacks and is basically made out of sand and thus almost indestructible unless he gets wet. At best he has some death attack and has the "worm that walks" template... though i've only thought about this character for maybe the past week.

Liberty's Edge

Bandw2 wrote:
a wushu swordsman... you know that guy that teleports half way across the battlefield and leaves a path of death in his wake. At best right now, you get like 4 dead people... maybe 7 if two-weapon fight... also you can't move...

The Mythic rules, being a Medium and channeling the Champion, or being a Magus all work to do this (Magus works best with Greater Bladed Dash). None might be exactly what you're looking for, but you can fake it.

Bandw2 wrote:
A caster that uses a greatsword.

There are a few ways to do this, but yeah, it's tricky.

Bandw2 wrote:
A fighter/warrior who uses intelligence as an off-stat instead of charisma(lore wardens and tacticians do not count).

You can manage an Investigator like this, though it may not be quite what you're looking for.

Bandw2 wrote:
trap based character

There are a few, but they're admittedly kinda crappy.

Bandw2 wrote:
a character who uses a battlesuit/mech/living armor/any class that focuses on armor at all.

This one's fair.

Bandw2 wrote:
also, for the extreme, I can't for the life of me figure out how I'd make Crocodile from one-piece, who can drain the water from people with his attacks and is basically made out of sand and thus almost indestructible unless he gets wet. At best he has some death attack and has the "worm that walks" template... though i've only thought about this character for maybe the past week.

That one's specific enough to be really tricky. You can probably do something with a Blood Kineticist and the right template, though.


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A nonmagical doctor who doesn't take infeasible amounts of time to treat their patients and can actually deal with the condition removal needs of a party.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
a wushu swordsman... you know that guy that teleports half way across the battlefield and leaves a path of death in his wake. At best right now, you get like 4 dead people... maybe 7 if two-weapon fight... also you can't move...

The Mythic rules, being a Medium and channeling the Champion, or being a Magus all work to do this (Magus works best with Greater Bladed Dash). None might be exactly what you're looking for, but you can fake it.

Bandw2 wrote:
A caster that uses a greatsword.

There are a few ways to do this, but yeah, it's tricky.

Bandw2 wrote:
A fighter/warrior who uses intelligence as an off-stat instead of charisma(lore wardens and tacticians do not count).

You can manage an Investigator like this, though it may not be quite what you're looking for.

Bandw2 wrote:
trap based character

There are a few, but they're admittedly kinda crappy.

Bandw2 wrote:
a character who uses a battlesuit/mech/living armor/any class that focuses on armor at all.

This one's fair.

Bandw2 wrote:
also, for the extreme, I can't for the life of me figure out how I'd make Crocodile from one-piece, who can drain the water from people with his attacks and is basically made out of sand and thus almost indestructible unless he gets wet. At best he has some death attack and has the "worm that walks" template... though i've only thought about this character for maybe the past week.
That one's specific enough to be really tricky. You can probably do something with a Blood Kineticist and the right template, though.

yeah, I realize a lot of them are there, but not really viable unless you're outleveling your opponents by quite a bit.

like with intelligent warriors, I'd like a focus on combat ability, with intelligence allowing you to do stuff like panache does or a paladin does, like imagine an intelligence based smite like ability. ;-; investigator don't do it too well.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Jack of Dust wrote:
A nonmagical doctor who doesn't take infeasible amounts of time to treat their patients and can actually deal with the condition removal needs of a party.

do you count lay on hands as magical?

Liberty's Edge

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Jack of Dust wrote:
A nonmagical doctor who doesn't take infeasible amounts of time to treat their patients and can actually deal with the condition removal needs of a party.

You can do this as an Alchemist or Investigator with Infusion if you're willing to fudge the 'non-magical' bit slightly. Especially with Signature Skill (Heal).

Bandw2 wrote:

yeah, I realize a lot of them are there, but not really viable unless you're outleveling your opponents by quite a bit.

like with intelligent warriors, I'd like a focus on combat ability, with intelligence allowing you to do stuff like panache does or a paladin does, like imagine an intelligence based smite like ability. ;-; investigator don't do it too well.

Have you checked out Inspired Blade Swashbucklers? Fencing Grace from level 1 plus Int-based Panache is a thing...


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

oh yeah, i remember that. and then blanked it because I just really don't like using rapiers.

I was thinking more of a 1/2 caster full bab arcane caster or some class with an ability pool based on int that wasn't kinda s~!+ty because it gave out weapon finesse.

Like I want to run around in full plate stabbing people with a longsword or claymore and being effective because of his martial skill and not his finesse or strength.

I actually ended up making an entire class for this concept btw, though finessing is an option for one of it's class abilities, it can full well go int focused or normal strength focused...

Although it's not over powered I feel it covers the problems a magicless martial has too well and so people in my home games I feel choose this much sooner over a fighter. like using a dagger effectively and not being in a archetype specific to the dagger.

Might as well link drop at this point. I spent like 2 weeks balancing and refining it making sure mathematically it didn't allow for crazy specialization to beat a straight fighter focusing a single weapon and that none of the options are completely bad.


Kirin Style may be something for you to look into.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Tyinyk wrote:
Kirin Style may be something for you to look into.

know of it, and it's not really that interesting, specially since I basically want it to be a class ability and thus part of a class, so that i'm not limited to int focused classes (baring magus this basically means casters) or classes that just are good in general. You know, I want those tertiary int based abilities like lay on hands or detect evil.

besides, maybe I don't want to be a master of all things magic(dat arcana knowledge requirement) on my fighter with 16 int...

now that I think about it, there aren't any wisdom based fighters either, well besides monk, that aren't casters. hmmm. what I mean is like a fighter who uses his senses to his advantage and can make quick changes on the battle field based on his "feels/intuition". An inquisitor does this well though if you pretend your casting/abilities aren't magic though, ranger too maybe. but you know, like he doesn't knowledge check the enemy to know his weakness, he actually notices things about the enemy and can guesstimate his abilities. you really have to rebrand fluff to do this one but I suppose it's possible.


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A satisfying single class alternative to a great many Gestalt builds.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Just because Pathfinder can potentially cover most builds I can think of doesn't mean those builds are viable from an early level or even good once they're finished.

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