Where do you find the balance between waiting for players to post and updating the scene?


Online Campaigns General Discussion


In some PBP games I've been in, people complain that they're getting skipped because other posters are posting too fast and too often before they get a chance to join in. Sometimes it's the same day in a 1/day game, but a lot of times the person complaining isn't keeping up with the postin schedule.

Conversely, I've seen games get delayed because everyone is waiting for someone to post. No one is sure if those delaying are simply watching and silently waiting or if they're not even paying attention to the game.

Two examples:

1) In combat, a single round take take 1-2 weeks because not everyone is posting on the 1/day or 1/48 hour schedule and it delays combat. Or someone takes their 1/day to mean, "today I ask a question, tomorrow I ask a follow up question, the next day I change tactics and ask a different question, and the fourth day I post my actual action for the round."

2) In a roleplay scene, some posters watch passively and don't engage, allowing others to take charge. But the entire time, they don't actually post. Is game delayed waiting for them to post, or are they skipped by so others can engage? I've seen some skipped, and then complain that they got skipped and "the scene moved ahead without everyone posting, so I'm quiting."

Where do you find this balance between waiting for and skipping players?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I think a that if you decide to play a PBP game, you accept the limitations of the medium along with its many advantages. If you are the sort of person who takes a long time to post, simply accept that either you should get used to people not waiting for you or you should find a different medium in which to play the game.

As a GM, I will wait 24+ hours from MY last post before posting again, so I can make sure no one gets skipped. However if I'm ready to post and you haven't gone yet, too bad.

Social scenes are harder and I admit to sometimes being annoyed when I check a thread and in 12 hours there have been 46 posts or something like that. However, I'm a big boy and don't expect everyone to wait for me when they're having fun. It's just the way PBP is sometimes. Players should accept that or not use PBP. In a social scene with NPCs, GMs should govern the speed of the conversation by not posting until either every player has posted at least once or the time limit has expired.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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This issue is exactly why posting expectations should be explicit in the campaign's recruitment thread. If someone applies, they've agreed to whatever's in that thread, including posting expectations. If you don't follow through on what you agreed to, you have no right to complain about the consequences. That's like filing a complaint with your city's transit system after you failed to get to the bus stop on time and the bus left without you at the exact time it was scheduled to.

The Exchange

What happens is the recruitment asks for 1/day posts. People have different definitions of 1/day.

I, personally used to post 1/day for every pbp, but realized that sometimes there really wasn't anything to respond to. So I stopped posting 1/day if there was nothing happening.


A mix of what Jiggy and Just a Mort have said. In general if there's an expected post rate then people need to be reasonably certain they can maintain that (random life occurrences do happen, of course). On the other hand, it's been my experience that if you get a game that manages to survive long enough for everyone to get fairly familiar with each other that everyone tends to relax a bit and it's not such a big deal if you have a day or two where posting is slow. And like Just a Mort, I'll occasionally skip posting if there's absolutely nothing I feel I can contribute at that particular point in time. I occasionally see posts where (in my opinion) it seemed more like someone was posting just to post rather than posting with any real aim at furthering the plot or offering some sort of RP opening.

*edit* To try and actually offer a comment that's a bit more on topic, I'd say that it depends on the individual group. Some groups need a little prodding sometimes while I've seen others take a scene setup and run with it for ages, needing little to no GM intervention.


I tend to be stricter about schedule when in the midst of combat - if there's a fight going on, unless I'm short three or more people, chances are good I'm moving on and botting those who haven't posted. Same with those who are dithering - I'll do my best to answer their question and give them time to respond, but if they haven't answered within a reasonable time frame, I'll move on and make whatever they intended to happen happen as closely as possible.

When it comes to out-of-combat, though, I'm a little more willing to be loose with pushing schedule, especially if I get on to post and discover that the players have created a bunch of hooks for each other without my intervention. Whenever I get on to post, my goal is basically to make sure everyone has something they can respond to/interact with - whether that's something I've posted or something that other players have put up. And it seems to work pretty well as an overarching goal for me.

(And of course, as the good Lady said above, I've got complete understanding that real life happens, too, to me as much as anyone. Overly so, lately.)


Here's how I find my balance.

SETTING YOUR INITIAL PACE

I state outright that I expect 2-3 posts a day in my recruitments, and I ask people to tell me when they know they'll be unavailable. In return, I tell them that my Wednesdays are rotten, and I let them know whenever I'm having a crunch day because of work or conventions. If I keep doing this, they start telling me when they've got a heavy day coming at work, vacations, or other things that will take them away for a while.

BOTTING

I also make sure they know that I plan to bot them if they're not there. I have a separate botting alias to post if needed for combats or skill checks, and I keep the pace moving from the very beginning. Sometimes I ruthlessly bot half the party in the very first combat of a game but it lets everyone know that I meant what I said about the pacing. After that, they all get used to posting rhythm, we settle on a pace and they start to enjoy having new posts to read each day.

COURTESY NOTICES

Another thing that I found to be effective is to announce in discussion that I'm planning to bot someone. Usually they post immediately after I make that announcement.

Here's an example of one poke that turned out to be very effective when the whole party had stalled.

Humor. It's very effective.

ENGAGE THEM IN YOUR STORY

The other thing that I do to keep the party moving is to keep everyone engaged. Always have something happening, and try to involve the PCs in the action. Get their hearts and minds engaged. Make the NPCs and their problems matter. Give them big challenges, but also reward their roleplay.

KNOW THE FEW TIMES YOU NEED TO SLOW DOWN

All that said, there are few times when you'll need to slow down and let people process something that just happened. Maybe there's been a big reveal, either by a player character or by the GM. Maybe someone important to the PCs just died, or there's been a shocking secret. Slow down moments usually happen at times of great emotion, or when there's been a shock.

You can slow down the pace for those moments, or have a quiet post where an NPC just drops his sword, looks down at a body with tears in his eyes and walks away. Change the scene, commemorate what's happened, and then work the pace back up again.

Hmm


Click. Whirr.

And if that doesn't work, I come out of my box. Mua. Ha. Ha. Who needs PCs?

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Just a Mort wrote:
I, personally used to post 1/day for every pbp, but realized that sometimes there really wasn't anything to respond to. So I stopped posting 1/day if there was nothing happening.

I'd note that as a GM, I really dislike complete silence from a player. I understand there are times you have nothing to say but I may not be aware of that as a GM. As a player, I'll post something along the lines of "I continue to watch as they debate" (or just post in the discussion thread that I'm following along) when two other characters are having a debate that doesn't involve my character or if I'm "off screen."

Even in combat, where I typically check to see if all of the players have posted their actions before I post as a GM, I sometimes blank if someone's paralyzed or otherwise been removed from play (or in the first round, when not everyone acts). If I'm in that situation as a player, I feel like a simple post like "I continue to bleed" or "I remain blissfully unconscious" is helpful.

Also, if no one else is posting, sometimes poking other players can be helpful, whether in character or not. (Though that gets old if you have to do it constantly.)

Dark Archive

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I think you might have already gotten your answer by now but I thought about giving my two cents.

The complaining player

All the games I GM I aim for the usual 1 post/day schedule and also assume that if a player isn't able to deliver, it is neither my fault nor the other players if that specific player is feeling left behind. IMO, a player that is constantly left behind should really aim to get in line or leave the game, since his enjoyment will diminish more and more...

I'll explain: In my interest of keeping the game alive and flowing, I need to keep my players engaged, avoiding any chance of putting the game into a halt. If I notice a player is posting once/2 days or worse, I'll give him less and less hooks, since I'd not like to risk the other players sitting around while we need to wait for the slow poster to give us the blessing of his words.

Also, I think it is really important to address the slow-poster ASAP! If not, the other players will often slow down as well and soon you'll run the risk of a dead game. When I'm on the player side, I usually lose much of my interest when it takes too much time for the others to answer my posts.

When to push

The decision to push or not is far more complicated during social encounters than during combat. While in combat, everyone has 24h to post, otherwise I'll bot his PC. My only exception is when I have to bot all or most of them and in this situation I usually poke them in the discussion tab before anything.

There are a couple situations that you as a GM doesn't need 100% of your players to move the scene. The classic example is the left-right choice on a corridor... once two players have posted about going left, simply go left. There is no need for everyone to agree. Pace is life in PBP.

Another good moment to push in social situations is when you sense a couple of your players aren't really involved in a specific scene. For an example, after the PCs meet the NPC and each of them made a bunch of posts, if only one player keeps posting and the others remain silent, it is a clear indicator for me that that scene is taking too long.

When to hold yourself

I've found it pretty uncommon to happen but I think it happens when you have (besides you) 2-3 players online at the same time on a social encounter. If you don't policy yourself, the player that was away (possibly in a different time zone), he'll find 20+ posts! When this happens, I usually go to the discussion tab and inform the really-active players that I'll be waiting for the remaining players before I post again.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I might steal the Bot-Alias idea, next time I start a new campaign. Maybe even frame it as a meta-villain whose fuel source is player tears and PC blood. ;)


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One comment I'd like to add here--if I feel there's nothing I can add in the gameplay, rather than remain completely silent, I'll usually post something in discussion to the effect of "I don't think my character has anything to add right now" or "Waiting on X to say what they're doing before I say what I'm doing" or so on. In my outside-of-Paizo experience, if everyone does this kind of thing, you can identify deadlocks ("I'm waiting on you" "Oh, I was waiting on you!") before they go on too long.


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Jiggy wrote:
I might steal the Bot-Alias idea, next time I start a new campaign. Maybe even frame it as a meta-villain whose fuel source is player tears and PC blood. ;)

Click. Whirr.

My true purpose is revealed.


Almonihah wrote:
One comment I'd like to add here--if I feel there's nothing I can add in the gameplay, rather than remain completely silent, I'll usually post something in discussion to the effect of "I don't think my character has anything to add right now" or "Waiting on X to say what they're doing before I say what I'm doing" or so on. In my outside-of-Paizo experience, if everyone does this kind of thing, you can identify deadlocks ("I'm waiting on you" "Oh, I was waiting on you!") before they go on too long.

^Do this as the DM too. I suggest checking in with a post once a day, or whatever your pace is. Even if the post is just a prompt or checking in. Never disappear unless you give a warning. Interest will fade and things will slow down. It's hard to pick up after that. You don't have to set a grueling pace. Just make sure the PC's know you are still their. Half the time, people get confused and aren't sure who's up or what to do, or wait for someone else to make the decision. Some people are afraid to admit this. A simple prompt can get the ball rolling again.

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