Beast Shape in Oracle Mysteries - WHY?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Hey all, I've been interested in playing a melee Oracle for a while, but I have such a hard time finding a Mystery I actually like. Two Mysteries really stand out to me as flavorful, but are completely unplayable due to bad game design. Those are: Lunar and Dark Tapestry.

Lunar has some great stuff: Prophetic Armor, for example. Then I see Form of the Beast and I think "Sweet, I can become a Werewolf type of thing." WRONG. You can only turn into a garden variety animal. Really boring right? But that's not even the worst of it. You can't change back and forth, and you can't cast spells as an animal. A full caster can't cast spells for 7 hours a day minimum. What the heck were they thinking?? That's an extra curse, not a power.

Then I see Dark Tapestry and I think awesome, I can shapeshift into cool stuff. Wrong. Alter Self is nice, but what comes after that? More f@#king animal forms!

Why is this a thing? Why would anyone play a 9-level caster and never cast spells cause they're stuck in a form that can't cast? Is it just that the Developers don't know the rules, or am I missing something?


They do know the rules, and have made changes so they aren't as easily abused as they used to be in previous editions. CoDzilla or mages who were better melee combatants than any martial could ever hope to be.

It was broken. They fixed it. The abilities you are talking about are perks of the class choices not necessarily things to hinge your entire play style on. There are ways to pull off the concept you want, but just not the way you think it should be accomplished. If you understood the rules better you wouldn't have any problem making the character you seem interested in.


I don't know if Oracles qualify, but Natural Spell is a feat that allows you to cast spells while wildshaped.


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There's always Bokrug. You can turn into a typical version of...whatever its species is as early as 13th level, oracle or wizard. Elven and aasimar oracles used to be able to do it faster, but, well, you know...errata...


Hannah the Irin wrote:
I don't know if Oracles qualify, but Natural Spell is a feat that allows you to cast spells while wildshaped.

Took a quick peek at Lunar and it refers to Beastshape the spell not wildshape the ability (didn't think it works but it has been awhile and wanted to double check).


But if that's the case, then why bother giving the Lunar Oracle shapeshifting powers at all? Who would ever decide to stay in a form where they can't cast spells for 8 hours? And why not make it consistent across the Mysteries? The Wood Oracle can turn into a Treant with Plant Shape and still cast spells. The Flame, Volcano, and Waves Oracles can turn into elementals using Elemental Body and still cast spells.

And then there's Dark Tapestry, which doesn't resemble any of the other Mysteries with their shapeshifting. I just can't figure this out, too many inconsistencies.


Skylancer4 wrote:
Hannah the Irin wrote:
I don't know if Oracles qualify, but Natural Spell is a feat that allows you to cast spells while wildshaped.
Took a quick peek at Lunar and it refers to Beastshape the spell not wildshape the ability (didn't think it works but it has been awhile and wanted to double check).

I agree, I don't think Natural Spell works because the Oracle ability isn't the same thing as Wild Shape.


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HeHateMe wrote:

But if that's the case, then why bother giving the Lunar Oracle shapeshifting powers at all? Who would ever decide to stay in a form where they can't cast spells for 8 hours? And why not make it consistent across the Mysteries? The Wood Oracle can turn into a Treant with Plant Shape and still cast spells. The Flame, Volcano, and Waves Oracles can turn into elementals using Elemental Body and still cast spells.

And then there's Dark Tapestry, which doesn't resemble any of the other Mysteries with their shapeshifting. I just can't figure this out, too many inconsistencies.

Because it isn't an MMO or video game and small choices like that make differences. Your choices mean something and not everything needs to be "balanced" with the next class or archetype. The fact that there are all these options is what makes table top gaming so much more interesting. You aren't forced to play clone #65738828383646 of a handful of options. It definitely can be confusing, but like any complicated system (which are all but phased out of present day gaming, MMOs or the like) it just takes using it to aquire familiarity/expertise. There isn't just one way to accomplish something, there are typically several paths to a desired result if you think outside the box.


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Because they wrote it just to annoy you.


I think maybe I'm asking the wrong question. The way these mysteries are designed seems to make sense to everyone but me. Let me try this question instead: has anyone had success making a melee Oracle with the Lunar or Dark Tapestry mysteries? If so, what was your secret for success?


HeHateMe wrote:
I think maybe I'm asking the wrong question. The way these mysteries are designed seems to make sense to everyone but me. Let me try this question instead: has anyone had success making a melee Oracle with the Lunar or Dark Tapestry mysteries? If so, what was your secret for success?

You build the character like a melee combatant and choose long lasting buff spells (as your DCs will be sub par and you will lack bonus spells per day) to make up for the weaknesses of your caster frame. Polymorph used to be a straight up replacement for combat ability (got type, stats were replaced instead of modified, etc). Now it is more utility. If you have crappy physical stats you aren't going to be much better off polymorphed.

If you aren't looking at PFS you should probably take a look at Ultimate Psionics and the psion (psychometabolism) and/or Metamorph PrC. Instead of constant full body swap, some of the options are "gain natural attack(s)" which allows for more werewolf like forms.


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Short answer is going to be ignore the mystery and play like an melee cleric... Past that those two have a few piece of gold but the rest are junk. Look at Eye of the Moon for a good example.


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Skylancer4 wrote:


Because it isn't an MMO or video game and small choices like that make differences. Your choices mean something and not everything needs to be "balanced" with the next class or archetype. The fact that there are all these options is what makes table top gaming so much more interesting. You aren't forced to play clone #65738828383646 of a handful of options. It definitely can be confusing, but like any complicated system (which are all but phased out of present day gaming, MMOs or the like) it just takes using it to aquire familiarity/expertise. There isn't just one way to accomplish something, there are typically several paths to a desired result if you think outside the box.

None of this necessitates so many of those options ending up crap though. Which is the reality of it. High minded rationalizations aside, Paizo just isn't that great at balancing things, especially for full casters.


Skylancer4 wrote:


Because it isn't an MMO or video game and small choices like that make differences. Your choices mean something and not everything needs to be "balanced" with the next class or archetype. The fact that there are all these options is what makes table top gaming so much more interesting. You aren't forced to play clone #65738828383646 of a handful of options. It definitely can be confusing, but like any complicated system (which are all but phased out of present day gaming, MMOs or the like) it just takes using it to aquire familiarity/expertise. There isn't just one way to accomplish something, there are typically several paths to a desired result if you think outside the box.

I'd argue balance is more important here than in a video game. In a video game you can do whatever you want and still be okay most of the time, in a tabletop game if the other character is notably better than your character you could potentially be spending a lot of the game sitting on your ass doing nothing, and there's a good possibility that it wasn't because of your inexperience.


swoosh wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:


Because it isn't an MMO or video game and small choices like that make differences. Your choices mean something and not everything needs to be "balanced" with the next class or archetype. The fact that there are all these options is what makes table top gaming so much more interesting. You aren't forced to play clone #65738828383646 of a handful of options. It definitely can be confusing, but like any complicated system (which are all but phased out of present day gaming, MMOs or the like) it just takes using it to aquire familiarity/expertise. There isn't just one way to accomplish something, there are typically several paths to a desired result if you think outside the box.
None of this necessitates so many of those options ending up crap though. Which is the reality of it. High minded rationalizations aside, Paizo just isn't that great at balancing things, especially for full casters.

Depends on your definition of "balance." And that is where 99% of the arguments come up. Subjective perception. This post is a prime example, it boils down to "what do you mean I can't have access to everything all the time and have to choose when I use my abilities". Is that really your idea of "balance"? Sure as hell isn't mine or anyone I have ever played with, and we run "high power" adventures regularly (currently in a 27th level campaign). You can poo-poo Paizo's choices all you want, but until you are in the place they are, your "shiny" snowflake ideas are worth about as much as they cost outside the like minded individuals you spend time talking about them with. Nothing. And that is the crux of the issue, what works for you is completely useless for others, because of our perceptions.

As it is, casters are still the most powerful set of classes hands down. The pure amount of options available to them is the single most game breaking capability any class has access to. Enforcing choices and limitations isn't a bad thing, as it promotes thinking about things. If I want to be a mindless sheep I could play numerous other games or activities. Or I could pretend to be a trained monkey and play video games bashing the buttons in the right order. None of that interests me and I would prefer to keep that type of "consistent" and "balanced" mentality out of my table top gaming.


A note to the OP, Lunar's already pretty beastly. You get Cha to AC, natural attacks that work great if you start with a race with claws, and most importantly, an animal companion that you can buff with personal spells from the cleric list. Yeah the selection is limited but you can grab a cat or a wolf from there and wreck face with stuff live divine favor, righteous might, and my favorite, divine vessel.


You can also cast silent, still, material eschewed spells as an animal, right? Could go deaf curse, take still spell+eschew materials and cast away at 1 spell level off from your non-polymorphed form. Spells with no somatic components wouldn't even suffer from a level raise, so you could just choose to limit your spellcasting to that subset if you wanted.

Scarab Sages

GM 7thGate wrote:
You can also cast silent, still, material eschewed spells as an animal, right? Could go deaf curse, take still spell+eschew materials and cast away at 1 spell level off from your non-polymorphed form. Spells with no somatic components wouldn't even suffer from a level raise, so you could just choose to limit your spellcasting to that subset if you wanted.

This is what I do. I am a deaf Dark Tapestry elven ancient lorekeeper oracle. I have Still Spell and Eschew Materials. I can cast most of my spells by will alone, in any shape I wear. (Spells with somatic components do need to be stilled whilst using Many Forms, which means I can't cast my highest level of spells in this way if they have somatic components). Since Oracles don't need a divine focus, Eschew Materials is only needed for a handful of spells and I could get away without it if I made slightly different choices. But I am too fond of Displacement.

I can do well enough in melee as a deinonychus/velociraptor, especially buffed with divine favour (plus bulls strength, displacement and blessing of fervour/haste if possible). Next level (10, using nerfed alternate favoured class bonus) I will be able to assume aurumvorax or voonith forms, which will be significantly more effective in combat.

In parties where there are dedicated melee types I tend to buff them rather than go to the front line myself. It's simply more expedient. But when I need to do melee I can. The utility of Many Forms is a great boon. I have escaped a trapped room by becoming a snake. I have saved my whole party from being flooded in lava by becoming a burrowing dire badger.

In addition, I can use Cloak of Shadows to armour myself in any shape, and Dark Wings to gain flight as a swift action, also in any shape.

Dark Tapestry is a great Mystery.


There is the Dragon Mystery oracle as well, while the polymorphing forms come later in the game, the other revelations like Talon of the Dragon and Tail Swipe, both lend themselves well to a melee oriented Oracle assuming you build yourself around such things. With the feat Extra Use when you finally do get Form of the Dragon revelation that becomes immediately doubles the value of that particular class ability.

I'm curious if Paizo or any 3rd party products have a wilding armor special ability.


Mako Senako wrote:

There is the Dragon Mystery oracle as well, while the polymorphing forms come later in the game, the other revelations like Talon of the Dragon and Tail Swipe, both lend themselves well to a melee oriented Oracle assuming you build yourself around such things. With the feat Extra Use when you finally do get Form of the Dragon revelation that becomes immediately doubles the value of that particular class ability.

I'm curious if Paizo or any 3rd party products have a wilding armor special ability.

Now that's interesting, where's the dragon mystery from?


It's in the Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons book.


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Lunar mystery is super broken overall, but you are correct that those revelations suck. Using a long spear with divine favor is still pretty good.


Mako Senako wrote:

There is the Dragon Mystery oracle as well, while the polymorphing forms come later in the game, the other revelations like Talon of the Dragon and Tail Swipe, both lend themselves well to a melee oriented Oracle assuming you build yourself around such things. With the feat Extra Use when you finally do get Form of the Dragon revelation that becomes immediately doubles the value of that particular class ability.

I'm curious if Paizo or any 3rd party products have a wilding armor special ability.

Look for "wild" armor property.


HyperMissingno wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:


Because it isn't an MMO or video game and small choices like that make differences. Your choices mean something and not everything needs to be "balanced" with the next class or archetype. The fact that there are all these options is what makes table top gaming so much more interesting. You aren't forced to play clone #65738828383646 of a handful of options. It definitely can be confusing, but like any complicated system (which are all but phased out of present day gaming, MMOs or the like) it just takes using it to aquire familiarity/expertise. There isn't just one way to accomplish something, there are typically several paths to a desired result if you think outside the box.
I'd argue balance is more important here than in a video game. In a video game you can do whatever you want and still be okay most of the time, in a tabletop game if the other character is notably better than your character you could potentially be spending a lot of the game sitting on your ass doing nothing, and there's a good possibility that it wasn't because of your inexperience.

But that isn't a mechanical "balance" issue. You are conflating two or more separate issues. It is like complaining that your ultra social bard build is useless in combat because you didn't make any attempt to make it viable when watching the paladin smite the BBEG down.

Choices matter, again. Deciding to specialize and not getting an opportunity to take advantage of it in game isn't a mechanical issue to be "balanced".

In MMOs the only thing they need to worry about is damage balance. If you spend 90% of your PFRPG time in combat, you might as well be playing a video game as that is definitely not what the system is "all about". That is "roll playing" not "role playing". And a good GM will "balance" the game and give every character a chance to shine. Drastically different situations, as that isn't an option in video games.


CWheezy wrote:
Lunar mystery is super broken overall, but you are correct that those revelations suck. Using a long spear with divine favor is still pretty good.

Huh. I'm not sure why Lunar is considered broken, the only thing I saw there worth picking up is Prophetic Armor. But then again, I hate animal companions, just personal preference.

What would really be great is a Mystery that lets you shapeshift into humanoid forms, using stuff like the Monstrous Physique line of spells. I personally dislike non-humanoid forms, they're too complicated and too limited.


Yeah cha to a.c. is super anazing, it probably should not be in the game. The full strength a.c. for free is also pretty good but not if you hate ac, lol.

You can almost make oracles mono stat, with cha to saves, ac and initiative with feats and a 2 level dip.


Lunar is honestly one of the best mysteries, however it's not so overpowering that it makes the other mysteries worthless for going battle oracle.

Time is still the best mystery though.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Being able to turn into a small, flying animal with darkvision or low-light vision is pretty sweet for scouting.


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Since the ability of the lunar mystery refers to beast shape, I'd say that the (D) for dismissable works too. The duration is the maximum, but you can cancel it earlier.

Anyway, shapechanging/polymorph has been reduced to a feeble shadow of what it once was. It required some houseruling, but it was a lot more fun than now.


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HeHateMe wrote:

Huh. I'm not sure why Lunar is considered broken, the only thing I saw there worth picking up is Prophetic Armor. But then again, I hate animal companions, just personal preference.

What would really be great is a Mystery that lets you shapeshift into humanoid forms, using stuff like the Monstrous Physique line of spells. I personally dislike non-humanoid forms, they're too complicated and too limited.

Dragon Mystery kind of lets you do this, as well as Ancient Lorekeeper. In the case of Dragon Mystery you can get Dragon Magic, which allows you to pick 1 spell of a spell level 1 lower than the highest level you can cast from the Wizard/Sorc spell list and cast it once per day as a special like ability, you could also pick 2 spells 3 levels lower than the highest level spell you can cast from the same spell list and use them each 1 per day as a spell like ability, after a certain level you can use either option 2 day.

Ancient Lorekeeper pretty much allows you to customize your bonus spell list with wizard spells


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I totally agree with you OP, the polymorph school is dumb. But there's a reason and that reason is "this is why we can't have nice things"

The polymorph school rewards nerds who know the bestiary back and front. Lots of weird abuses and logical leaps as to what you actually gain and what you don't lead the school down the paddin' hallway of nerfdom.

Animal polymorphs are easy to ensure balance as their CR is usually easily comparable with summons/familiars.

Aberrant sorcerers can't turn into any aberrations, impossible sorcerers can't turn into constructs. Seems really unfitting doesn't it?

Basically there needs to be a polymorph bestiary with more flavorful lower level options instead of everyone min max morphing into leopards or dogs because they have the best stats.

If course your local GM might be able to work something out, if you give up your animal options and choose only a select pool of reasonable forms you might find a middle ground.


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I thought the new rules for polymorph were static bonuses based on the size of the form, and the only real flexibility was what natural attacks and special abilities/qualities you had access to based on the version of the spell used.

The Exchange

Skylancer4 wrote:
...You can poo-poo Paizo's choices all you want, but until you are in the place they are, your "shiny" snowflake ideas are worth about as much as they cost outside the like minded individuals you spend time talking about them with. Nothing...

Meow! Fffft!

In reference to the original question: that particular Lunar power isn't meant to be combat oriented, instead adding to your character's ability to scout, spy, or cross unusual terrain without any cost in spells. To name one example, a few months back my players were exploring sewers and decided that a certain albino rat they had seen earlier was important. (And they were right.) As soon as it realized they were in pursuit, the rat scuttled into one of the narrow pipes accessing the city above, neatly evading the party!

...except the druid.

Druid: Snake form!
GM: Hm. Well played.


Polymorph used to be crazy broken, lol. You could Polymorph into a monster with a power of "you can take an extra standard action per turn."


CWheezy wrote:
Polymorph used to be crazy broken, lol. You could Polymorph into a monster with a power of "you can take an extra standard action per turn."

The Sharn from Forgotten Realms had something like that, and I think in the Monster Manual 2 or one of the Fiend Folio's there was a bird like monster that also had such an ability, it had chrono in its name is all I could remember.


I think the issue for me is that I'm really not a fan of playing full casters, I prefer melee.

I've been thinking Oracle cause our current campaign may be ending somewhat soonish, and I'll probably have to take the "healer" role in the next campaign.

Some folks on this thread have been saying stuff like "The OP is a powergamer and wants it all; full casting and a melee monster". That's not true. To be clear, I don't like playing full casters, so saying "Full casters are the most powerful thing in the game" may be true, but it's not an incentive for me personally. I need to play a caster next campaign cause I will need to heal people, not cause I enjoy playing a full caster.

Looking at all these responses from people who have alot of experience playing Oracles, I think I'm going to be disappointed with the melee ability of any mystery. Let's try something different: are any Oracle mysteries good at blasting things at range? Flame seemed decent. Has anyone had success playing a blaster Oracle?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

I'm doing well as a melee Ancestor Oracle with the Haunted Curse (20 point buy).

I think you need to read this: Oracle Guide

It doesn't have some of the newer options, but it's solid advice.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that to play a melee caster--unless you're 25 or 30 point buy--you need to keep you casting stat minimal so you can increase STR and CON. If you start with a 13 CHA, you have access to maximum level spells until 11th level (and you catch up at 12th) on base stats alone. A +2 CHA item will keep you well above max spell level.

This also means debuffing/damage spells have low saves, so the buffer role is best.

Buffing also goes well with beast shape since all of your spells are cast before and after combat.


Blake's Tiger wrote:

I'm doing well as a melee Ancestor Oracle with the Haunted Curse (20 point buy).

I think you need to read this: Oracle Guide

It doesn't have some of the newer options, but it's solid advice.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that to play a melee caster--unless you're 25 or 30 point buy--you need to keep you casting stat minimal so you can increase STR and CON. If you start with a 13 CHA, you have access to maximum level spells until 11th level (and you catch up at 12th) on base stats alone. A +2 CHA item will keep you well above max spell level.

This also means debuffing/damage spells have low saves, so the buffer role is best.

Buffing also goes well with beast shape since all of your spells are cast before and after combat.

Thanks for the advice, and I'll check out that guide as well!


HeHateMe wrote:

I think the issue for me is that I'm really not a fan of playing full casters, I prefer melee.

I've been thinking Oracle cause our current campaign may be ending somewhat soonish, and I'll probably have to take the "healer" role in the next campaign.

One word: Oradin


Blaster Oracle you say? Dude, my highest level character is a flame oracle and let me tell you she's pretty damn good at blasting. The main spells that get tossed around in combat are the mystery spells, flame strike, spear of purity, holy smite, and blinding ray. You'll want that spell focus for evocation and you might have to convince your GM to let you use blinding ray, but I've pretty much been a massive help in every fight that the mages don't trivialize, even when fire resistance showed up.

Just don't take the blackened mystery, earlygame you're gonna want to a crossbow to shoot things with. You also have to wait until 4th or 5th level to get to be cool, burning hands sucks hard. Other than that it's a lot of fun.


HyperMissingno wrote:

Blaster Oracle you say? Dude, my highest level character is a flame oracle and let me tell you she's pretty damn good at blasting. The main spells that get tossed around in combat are the mystery spells, flame strike, spear of purity, holy smite, and blinding ray. You'll want that spell focus for evocation and you might have to convince your GM to let you use blinding ray, but I've pretty much been a massive help in every fight that the mages don't trivialize, even when fire resistance showed up.

Just don't take the blackened mystery, earlygame you're gonna want to a crossbow to shoot things with. You also have to wait until 4th or 5th level to get to be cool, burning hands sucks hard. Other than that it's a lot of fun.

Besides Spell Focus, what other feats would be useful?


I'm at level 13 right now and my feat list looks something like this.

Martial Weapon Proficiency (Gladius), Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting, Glorious Heat, Nimble Moves, Spell Focus (Evocation), Elemental Focus (Fire), Acrobatic Steps, Empower Spell, Greater Spell Focus (Evocation), Quicken Spell

I'd like to note that I retrained weapon Finesse into Greater spell focus and am currently retaining Combat Casting into Greater Elemental Focus. Also I'm a half-elf and I took the Cinder Dance revelation so the weapon feat and the step feats were free for me. I'd also retrain out Glorious Heat if my character wasn't a certain goddess's child.

Other feats you might want to look into are intensify spell, sickening spell, and frightful spell, one for a little extra oomph to your magic, the others for applying debuffs. There's also dazing spell, but that's unnecessary for all but the hardest of games and will make the GM hate you.


Hmmm...interesting. I never play full casters so I have no idea, but are there any feats that provide a static damage bonus for spell attacks, like a blasting version of weapon specialization or power attack?


There aren't unless you're a sorcerer, but in general you make up for the lack of damage by hitting multiple targets and not rolling for attacks. You'll shine the brightest when there's a ton of enemies on the field and drop them either in the negatives or close to 0. Not to mention the ability to set things on fire from a long range away.

But yeah, unless the dice hate your guts your damage should be fine as long as you grab empower spell at 9th or 11th level as well as flame strike at some point. You won't be doing the most damage out of the party, sure, but your spells are still packing a wicked punch.

Side note, for revelations grab cinder dance at level 1, molten skin at level 3, and wings of flame at level 7. The other revelations are...pretty poor.


Heretek wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:

I think the issue for me is that I'm really not a fan of playing full casters, I prefer melee.

I've been thinking Oracle cause our current campaign may be ending somewhat soonish, and I'll probably have to take the "healer" role in the next campaign.

One word: Oradin

Yay! Someone who understands that there is not just "one way" to fulfill a concept.

More so because it is one of my favorite builds.


HeHateMe wrote:

I think the issue for me is that I'm really not a fan of playing full casters, I prefer melee.

I've been thinking Oracle cause our current campaign may be ending somewhat soonish, and I'll probably have to take the "healer" role in the next campaign.

Some folks on this thread have been saying stuff like "The OP is a powergamer and wants it all; full casting and a melee monster". That's not true. To be clear, I don't like playing full casters, so saying "Full casters are the most powerful thing in the game" may be true, but it's not an incentive for me personally. I need to play a caster next campaign cause I will need to heal people, not cause I enjoy playing a full caster.

Looking at all these responses from people who have alot of experience playing Oracles, I think I'm going to be disappointed with the melee ability of any mystery. Let's try something different: are any Oracle mysteries good at blasting things at range? Flame seemed decent. Has anyone had success playing a blaster Oracle?

Needing a "healer" is a very outdated concept. You can absolutely run a game without a "healer" or a "tank" and have it work. UMD and a wand of Cure Light Wounds works wonders low to mid levels. Anything higher and other items become available. You don't need to play one if you think outside the box.


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Trying to use the play style of on type of character on another type rarely works well. Never try and play a full caster as if they are martial, or the reverse. If you are going to play a full caster than play it to the strength of the class you choose, don’t try and make it into another class. You will always be disappointed because you are not able to match what you think you can do. The fact that you have better option will not help if you are not willing to use them.

You may also want to choose another class that is more in line with what you prefer. A paladin with the right items (wand or cure light wounds to start) can fill the role of healer. The hospitaler archetype works very well for this. Another option would be war priest. The champion of the faith archetype makes you into a psedo paladin, but with less alignment restrictions and more spell casting.


If you're not into casting, check out the Metamorph alchemist from Ultimate Intrigue. Humanoid shapes, then monstrous humanoids, and then GIANTS!


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Trying to use the play style of on type of character on another type rarely works well. Never try and play a full caster as if they are martial, or the reverse. If you are going to play a full caster than play it to the strength of the class you choose, don’t try and make it into another class. You will always be disappointed because you are not able to match what you think you can do. The fact that you have better option will not help if you are not willing to use them.

You may also want to choose another class that is more in line with what you prefer. A paladin with the right items (wand or cure light wounds to start) can fill the role of healer. The hospitaler archetype works very well for this. Another option would be war priest. The champion of the faith archetype makes you into a psedo paladin, but with less alignment restrictions and more spell casting.

Wise advice, I have time so I'll continue to search for a better option. Thanks.


Melee Oracle of the Lunar Mystery

S: 16 D: 16 C: 12 I: 9 W: 9 Ch: 14 (20 pt tengu)

Racial Trait: Claw/Claw/Bite

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 luck bonuses)
Highlander (+1 Stealth, Stealth is a class skill)
Magical Knack (+2 Caster Levels)
Reactionary (+2 Init)

Feats:
Extra Revelation (1st)
Accomplished Sneak Attacker (3rd)
Power Attack (fighter 1)
Combat Expertise (Lore Warden 2)
Gang Up (fighter 2)
Extra Traits (5th)

Revelations:
Gift of Claw and Horn (1st)
Primal Companion (feat)
Eye of the Moon (6th)

Levels:
Lunar Oracle 1
Lunar Oracle 2
Rogue 1
Lore Warden 1
Lore Warden 2
Lunar Oracle 3
Lunar Oracle 4
etc.

At 1st:
+3 to hit for claw/claw/bite/gore (1d3+3)
--> +2/+2 with Divine Favor

At 3rd:
+4 to hit for claw/claw/bite/gore (1d3+3)
--> +2/+2 with Divine Favor
--> +2d6 Sneak Attack

At 5th:
+5 to hit for claw/claw/bite/gore (1d3+5)
--> +2/+2 with Divine Favor
--> +2d6 Sneak Attack (Gang Up + Animal Companion = EASY)

At 7th:
+6 to hit for claw/claw/bite/gore (1d3+7)
--> +3/+3 with Divine Favor
--> +2d6 Sneak Attack (Gang Up + Animal Companion = EASY)

This is without equipment. At 8th, if you took a level of Unchained Barbarian and put Furious on an Amulet of Mighty Fists, you could be cranking out pretty big damage.

This build can be a fairly decent sneak.

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