Akashic Mysteries: What would you like to see next?


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Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

the xiao wrote:
That "mirroring" you mentioned got me thinking... Maybe some veils have one set of abilities when you are in your social persona, and other ones in your secret identity? Imagine "this veil gives you a bonus on diplomacy when in social, intimidate when in secret, invested essence gives you bonuses to will saves when in social, and to damage when in secret"

That would definitely be a fun way to do it, though I like veils being versatile enough for anyone to pick up and that would be very specific to classes with a dual identity. It's a really fun concept though, and I like it quite a bit. Could make for an entire fun handbook that includes some additional feats and archetypes for expanding dual identity mechanics onto other classes.


Ssalarn wrote:

That would definitely be a fun way to do it, though I like veils being versatile enough for anyone to pick up and that would be very specific to classes with a dual identity. It's a really fun concept though, and I like it quite a bit. Could make for an entire fun handbook that includes some additional feats and archetypes for expanding dual identity mechanics onto other classes.

Yeah! I remember N.Jolly designed a feat for any class to get the dual identity, so special veils with two modes are not out of the question... maybe "normal" veilweavers get to choose what version to use when they shape them, but only dual identitiy gives you access to both versions just by changing identity.


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Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, that would be pretty restrictive, though, since only that class could use 'em, and they couldn't use any other existing veil. One idea might be that they can bind two separate sets of veils for their social and vigilante identities, perhaps with the restriction that social veils have to be passive in nature to avoid triggering the usual 'waaaaaitaminute'?

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Luthorne wrote:
Yeah, that would be pretty restrictive, though, since only that class could use 'em, and they couldn't use any other existing veil. One idea might be that they can bind two separate sets of veils for their social and vigilante identities, perhaps with the restriction that social veils have to be passive in nature to avoid triggering the usual 'waaaaaitaminute'?

That's a lot closer to my original thoughts on the subject, with maybe a few tweaks to dual identity to make it easier to disguise veils as more common magic items or clothing accessories.

One thing I've learned over the past few years of writing is that I'm way more fond of "fiddly bits" in my classes than a lot of other players though. I like getting to move numbers around from round to round and adapting my offenses and defenses to the needs of the encounter, and just generally having a lot of agency in how my character is managed. A lot of people see that as excessive paperwork, so I don't know how well having a character that basically requires two character sheets and can move the numbers on each sheet around every round would go over to the wider audience. Thoughts like that were what led to a lot of the changes in how I structured new classes like the Nexus and organized veils. I've really been trying to keep the spirit of the system while making it a lot more accessible, and the vigilante idea of having two separate veil sets feels like a step backwards in that regard (even though I personally really love it).

Maybe I'll find myself with a little extra word count in an upcoming project where I can make a little room to experiment :)


Ssalarn wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Yeah, that would be pretty restrictive, though, since only that class could use 'em, and they couldn't use any other existing veil. One idea might be that they can bind two separate sets of veils for their social and vigilante identities, perhaps with the restriction that social veils have to be passive in nature to avoid triggering the usual 'waaaaaitaminute'?

That's a lot closer to my original thoughts on the subject, with maybe a few tweaks to dual identity to make it easier to disguise veils as more common magic items or clothing accessories.

One thing I've learned over the past few years of writing is that I'm way more fond of "fiddly bits" in my classes than a lot of other players though. I like getting to move numbers around from round to round and adapting my offenses and defenses to the needs of the encounter, and just generally having a lot of agency in how my character is managed. A lot of people see that as excessive paperwork, so I don't know how well having a character that basically requires two character sheets and can move the numbers on each sheet around every round would go over to the wider audience. Thoughts like that were what led to a lot of the changes in how I structured new classes like the Nexus and organized veils. I've really been trying to keep the spirit of the system while making it a lot more accessible, and the vigilante idea of having two separate veil sets feels like a step backwards in that regard (even though I personally really love it).

Maybe I'll find myself with a little extra word count in an upcoming project where I can make a little room to experiment :)

I also prefer veils to be largely class-agnostic, so I'm more in the 'a set of veils for each persona' camp instead of vigilante-specific veils...that said, I certainly see your point about most people not liking excess 'fiddly bits'. One way I could see it going is, like other Vigilante archetypes, you replace every X-level vigilante talent with something Akasha-based (new bind, Imp. essence capacity, etc.) and add new social talents that can be empowered with essence; This helps keep the veils fully associated with the vigilante identity, while giving them something to do with their essence during social time.


well... but you already have two different sets of abilities you can use when you are a vanilla vigilante! you don't have to use two sheets, but you can use 3 quarters of it in each identity.

Maybe vigilante veils give you specific abilities (not bonuses) when you are in each persona, and non-vigilantes can change the ability (or abilities) with 1 minute of preparation, just like a vigilante changing appearances. Or maybe an akashic vigilante doesn't use veils, and has class-specific "shrouds" that work similar to veils... just like vigilante talents.


This is going to sound strange (and I think I've mentioned it in the past) - I want a more generic class with less built in flavor.

Let me explain - in the core rules there are "generic" classes - Wizard, Sorcerer, Fighter, Cleric, Rogue. Ultimate Psionics has Psion (and to a lesser extent the Wilder). The Spheres of Power/Might have the Incanter and Conscript.

You could take 2 clerics both NG, one a cleric of a Lust deity (whose deity is LG) and a NG cleric of a Justice deity (LG). They both have Channel and spells, but the characters are going to be very different.

You have a fighter that can go in many different directions. As opposed to the Ranger, Paladin and Barbarian which are all very focused in flavor.

I don't see that in Akashic Mysteries. The Vizier can come close, but it would need a Mythic Path equivalent of the Arcane Bloodline for Sorcerer or the Wizard Universal School.

Basically that beyond the "I can shape veils and use essence" the flavor of the class is driven by the player choices rather than the class.


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Vizier is definitely the vessel for this. Most of their abilities are veils, essence, and the pumping up and reshuffling thereof. More paths and veils will make this progressively easier.


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The Vizier could just use more Paths in general.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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That's funny, because I see the OG akashic classes as having a lot of possibilities for growth and build beyond what most core classes offer. With veils acting as essentially packets of class features, you can have your necromancer, your classic generalist wizard, your blaster/evoker, etc. That's actually one of the reasons I haven't done archetypes for them and have focused more on using page space for additional passions, attunements, and philosophies in upcoming products.


Ssalarn wrote:
That's funny, because I see the OG akashic classes as having a lot of possibilities for growth and build beyond what most core classes offer. With veils acting as essentially packets of class features, you can have your necromancer, your classic generalist wizard, your blaster/evoker, etc. That's actually one of the reasons I haven't done archetypes for them and have focused more on using page space for additional passions, attunements, and philosophies in upcoming products.

I agree to an extent. Actually getting more Vizier Paths would likely be enough for what I want, especially is one is "generic" (as mentioned the Arcane Bloodline, or Universalist Wizard school equivalent).

Right now with the three paths it's like a Sorcerer if the only available bloodlines of Abysical, Draconic, and Fey. If a player wanted to play someone with inborn magic, but didn't want to be connected to those thing they are stuck. That is sort of where I see Vizier right now - you can be good with magic items, have minor mind control/Charm/will deadening affects, or be a team helper. If you don't like those flavor choices, there isn't a "generic" choice. More than anything that is what I was getting at.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Lord Mhoram wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
That's funny, because I see the OG akashic classes as having a lot of possibilities for growth and build beyond what most core classes offer. With veils acting as essentially packets of class features, you can have your necromancer, your classic generalist wizard, your blaster/evoker, etc. That's actually one of the reasons I haven't done archetypes for them and have focused more on using page space for additional passions, attunements, and philosophies in upcoming products.

I agree to an extent. Actually getting more Vizier Paths would likely be enough for what I want, especially is one is "generic" (as mentioned the Arcane Bloodline, or Universalist Wizard school equivalent).

Right now with the three paths it's like a Sorcerer if the only available bloodlines of Abysical, Draconic, and Fey. If a player wanted to play someone with inborn magic, but didn't want to be connected to those thing they are stuck. That is sort of where I see Vizier right now - you can be good with magic items, have minor mind control/Charm/will deadening affects, or be a team helper. If you don't like those flavor choices, there isn't a "generic" choice. More than anything that is what I was getting at.

I think we're going to have you covered in Co7S. Thanks for breaking that down for me, I'll do my best to keep finding those holes in the akashic options and plugging them for you all :)


Ssalarn wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
That's funny, because I see the OG akashic classes as having a lot of possibilities for growth and build beyond what most core classes offer. With veils acting as essentially packets of class features, you can have your necromancer, your classic generalist wizard, your blaster/evoker, etc. That's actually one of the reasons I haven't done archetypes for them and have focused more on using page space for additional passions, attunements, and philosophies in upcoming products.

I agree to an extent. Actually getting more Vizier Paths would likely be enough for what I want, especially is one is "generic" (as mentioned the Arcane Bloodline, or Universalist Wizard school equivalent).

Right now with the three paths it's like a Sorcerer if the only available bloodlines of Abysical, Draconic, and Fey. If a player wanted to play someone with inborn magic, but didn't want to be connected to those thing they are stuck. That is sort of where I see Vizier right now - you can be good with magic items, have minor mind control/Charm/will deadening affects, or be a team helper. If you don't like those flavor choices, there isn't a "generic" choice. More than anything that is what I was getting at.

I think we're going to have you covered in Co7S. Thanks for breaking that down for me, I'll do my best to keep finding those holes in the akashic options and plugging them for you all :)

Happy to hear about Co7S. Thanks for understanding. :)


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I'm hoping to see this in Co7S, as Lost Spheres supports Mythic content - but another request - a Mythic Path for Veilshapers.


The Vizier is the one akashic class tgat could get away with a parh/archetype like that. The other two classes are two specialty-dependant IMHO. Maybe extra essence and/or veils would do it, or maybe some meta-veil effects to make them masters of veilshaping in its purest of forms.


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Lord Mhoram wrote:
I'm hoping to see this in Co7S, as Lost Spheres supports Mythic content - but another request - a Mythic Path for Veilshapers.

We can confirm there are definitely veilshaping relating Path abilities in Co7S. And while we have seen some veil classes utilize paths for Mythic Paths of the Lost Spheres, we agree that a dedicated akashic path might need to happen.


Mythics. I want Mythic.

I want new mythic paths.

Mythic feats.

Mythic awesomeness.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

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Just FYI, we have just released the Eclipse beta docs to Kickstarter backers for City of 7 Seraphs, meaning that backers now have access to the Nexus, Radiant, and Eclipse akashic classes along with scores of new veils! If you missed the kickstarter, you can get access to these docs by preordering City of 7 Seraphs through Backerkit!

Paizo Employee

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I'll just leave this link to a juicy .pdf full of akashic goodness right here...

If you happened to back City of Seven Seraphs at the level where you'd be receiving a copy of the final book, check your e-mail because you may already have a link for a free copy ;)


Apparently, not me. :(

Paizo Employee

TheAntiElite wrote:
Apparently, not me. :(

Did you preorder through the Kickstarter or Backerkit? Did you order at a level where you would be receiving at least the full Co7S PDF? How long ago did you place your order? If you just recently ordered through Backerkit there's typically a delay of up to a week or so before the rewards are sent out.


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Are there still any plans to release that "akashic druid"?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Are there still any plans to release that "akashic druid"?

I thought the radiant with the druid-like veils covered that?

Paizo Employee

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Air0r wrote:
SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Are there still any plans to release that "akashic druid"?
I thought the radiant with the druid-like veils covered that?

Yeah, several of the earlier ideas I had ended up getting subsumed by the radiant and nexus, since those classes offered a much broader chassis that could support a lot more playstyles and concepts. Now that the zodiac is available, there should be very few akashic concepts that don't have significant support, from defensive nature casters to versatile summoners to full on wizard replacements.


With the number of Akashic classes nearly tripling in the past 6 months, I think that side of things is in pretty good shape. The gap at this point is more Passions, Philosophies, etc. It was mentioned those are upcoming in Co7S, so we may be in pretty good shape there. Beyond that, more veil sets are always fun.


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Maybe a bit tangent but I'd enjoy some support for the Akashic races. As is they are functional but don't seem to have that much draw aside from being animal people with akashic ties. Some opportunities to flesh them out and provide additional options would do them some good.


Sir Antony wrote:
The gap at this point is more Passions, Philosophies, etc.

Paths of Mystic Attunement. Might be I'm running into a "Wizard problem", though (i.e. Wizards don't look cool because their best stuff is off in the spells section). It's that I don't personally feel like taking any of the three available.

Paizo Employee

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Marco Polaris wrote:
Maybe a bit tangent but I'd enjoy some support for the Akashic races. As is they are functional but don't seem to have that much draw aside from being animal people with akashic ties. Some opportunities to flesh them out and provide additional options would do them some good.

I know Co7S is going to have a bunch of new akashic races and supporting materials, and there should be some more akashic materials to support the full array of akashic races, but I can definitely keep the possibility of doing more racial options open. Christen and I have been chatting about the possibility of releasing some modules or adventures that use the akashic races and classes and including some backmatter with new akashic monsters, feats, and other expansions, so if that's something that gets off the ground (depends a bit on sales of the current products with the new edition of Pathfinder coming out), there should be a pretty reliable venue for working stuff in as appropriate to the product. If we were to do an adventure that features gamla, sobek, or suqur NPCs, I can almost guarantee we would include additional racial options in the backmatter.

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:
Sir Antony wrote:
The gap at this point is more Passions, Philosophies, etc.
Paths of Mystic Attunement. Might be I'm running into a "Wizard problem", though (i.e. Wizards don't look cool because their best stuff is off in the spells section). It's that I don't personally feel like taking any of the three available.

City of 7 Seraphs has a new Philosophy, Passion, and Mystic Attunement in it, and honestly the new mystic attunement is something that I kind of regret not having thought of four years ago when I wrote the vizier so that it could have been printed alongside the other ones. Not better than the other paths, just something that feels like it would have been the "iconic" mystic attunement.


Reading the thread, at this point what I realy want is to know if Lord Mhoram ever finished his Lifeforge and possibly a link to it. It sounded interesting.


Ssalarn wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
Apparently, not me. :(
Did you preorder through the Kickstarter or Backerkit? Did you order at a level where you would be receiving at least the full Co7S PDF? How long ago did you place your order? If you just recently ordered through Backerkit there's typically a delay of up to a week or so before the rewards are sent out.

Kickstarter at the book and PDF level.


TheAntiElite wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
TheAntiElite wrote:
Apparently, not me. :(
Did you preorder through the Kickstarter or Backerkit? Did you order at a level where you would be receiving at least the full Co7S PDF? How long ago did you place your order? If you just recently ordered through Backerkit there's typically a delay of up to a week or so before the rewards are sent out.
Kickstarter at the book and PDF level.

So sorry to hear this! Email us at herowithin@lostspherespublishing.com with your backer info and we will get you the codes.


Ssalarn wrote:
... and nexus, since those classes offered a much broader chassis that could support a lot more playstyles and concepts. Now that the zodiac is available, there should be very few akashic concepts that don't have significant support, from defensive nature casters to versatile summoners to full on wizard replacements.

Nexus rules so hard.

Paizo Employee

Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
... and nexus, since those classes offered a much broader chassis that could support a lot more playstyles and concepts. Now that the zodiac is available, there should be very few akashic concepts that don't have significant support, from defensive nature casters to versatile summoners to full on wizard replacements.
Nexus rules so hard.

How so?


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Ssalarn wrote:
Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
... and nexus, since those classes offered a much broader chassis that could support a lot more playstyles and concepts. Now that the zodiac is available, there should be very few akashic concepts that don't have significant support, from defensive nature casters to versatile summoners to full on wizard replacements.
Nexus rules so hard.
How so?

By being awesome. Fun. Effective. Full of flavor and style.

Paizo Employee

Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Craig Bonham 141 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
... and nexus, since those classes offered a much broader chassis that could support a lot more playstyles and concepts. Now that the zodiac is available, there should be very few akashic concepts that don't have significant support, from defensive nature casters to versatile summoners to full on wizard replacements.
Nexus rules so hard.
How so?
By being awesome. Fun. Effective. Full of flavor and style.

Ah, thank you!

I wasn't sure if that was a "Nexus is awesome" post or a "Nexus is difficult to parse because the rules are complex" post, and I thought the Nexus was pretty straightforward so I wanted to make sure there wasn't some confusion I could clear up.

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