Need help with an intimidate build!


Advice


Alright, so I am creating a character who I want to maximize my intimidate potential with. I am currently writing down every feat that interests me, although I am a pretty inexperienced player so I am asking for personal feedback. The race and class are set in stone and I'm using a third party class called Nightblade (Path of bloodied chains) just in case you would like to briefly look over it to get a feel for the characters play style.

Also, here is the character sheet.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=919003

As for where I need help, please read below and offer any suggestions you may have.

I apologize that this is going to be a pretty extensive list... It's my first time going through the feat list a-z
Potential Feats:

Acrobatics Spellcaster
Agile Maneuvers
Arcane strike
Armor focus
Combat Reflexes
Cornugon shield
Critical Improved
Dazzling Display
Demoralizing Lash
Combat Patrol
Disheartening Display
Dodge
Fury's Fall
Fury's snare
Gloom Strike
Killing Flourish
Frightening Ambush
Gory finish
Gruesom Slaughter
Mobility
Moonlight Stalker
Piranha Strike
Quick draw
Weapon specialization - Scythe or bladed whip
Whip mastery - if using whip

Note: This character is a Dex build. The GM has allowed me to have weapon finess to my scythe or bladed whip whichever I end up using without expending a feat.

Magical Items:
Have yet to research this for intimidation purposes so please let me know if you know of anything good :)


This and this make a nasty combo.


Well the problem here is you''re doing a dex build focused on intimidate... Maybe ask your DM if Conrugon Smash will work with Piranha Strike?

The main thing is you want Power Attack and Cornugon Smash for easy intimidates. Toss on Hurtful for an extra attack when you get an intimidate off as well, and now you're cooking with gas.

The alternate route for getting easy intimidates is with the Enforcer feat, and usually combining it with the Blade of Mercy Trait. Blade of Mercy is a rather specific trait though for Sarenrae worshipers.

The other option though, is Dazzling Display. However unless you're dipping Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier or something else to get free Dazzling Display as a standard action, then it's arguably much less worth going this route. If you got the feats though, Dazzling Display can do some pretty nice stuff with sufficient feats backing it.

As mentioned above me, Soulless Gaze is amazing for getting even more millage out of your intimidates.

So basically... Cornugon Smash or bust.


Thank you very much for the insight. And recommendations so far as magical items? If I take that acrobatic caster feat I'll definitely need daredevil boots to help get bonuses on my touch attack spells.


silverrey wrote:
This and this make a nasty combo.

This actually works perfectly with my character's backstory and lineage. I am highly considering this although I need to start looking into how many feats I am allotted and how to begin setting them in order.


Alright, so I have narrowed this down quite a bit. Since I'm a crowd control/debuff class, I'm going to go with a reach weapon to use for AoO's while spending my turn utilizing my spells, intimidate, etc. I may try go a cmb route if that is worth it so

Potential Feats: Need to drop about 6 of them to be at the # I receive by 20th lvl.

Acrobatics Spellcaster
Agile Maneuvers
Arcane strike
Armor focus
Combat Reflexes
Cornugon smash
Dazzling Display
Disheartening Display
Dodge
Gory finish
Mobility
Moonlight Stalker
Piranha Strike
Weapon specialization - Scythe
Damnnation Feats: Soulless Gaze (taking two of them)

Magical Items:
Have yet to research this for intimidation purposes so please let me know if you know of anything good :)


None of this matters if you don't actually have a way of easily intimidating a foe. Saying "I spend a standard action to demoralize a single opponent" is simply not a feasible answer.

EDIT: Also you can't take Weapon Specialization. You're not a a 4th level Fighter.


Did you read anything about the class I posted? It has multiple class specific things regarding intimidation.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/ascension-games-llc/night blade

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/ascension-games-llc/night blade/paths/path-of-the-bloodied-chain


KitsuneKid wrote:

Did you read anything about the class I posted? It has multiple class specific things regarding intimidation.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/ascension-games-llc/night blade

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/ascension-games-llc/night blade/paths/path-of-the-bloodied-chain

None of which allow you to actually intimidate efficiently. It's all bonuses to intimdate, or things AFTER the enemy is intimidated. Nothing to intimidate. Umbral Shackles is the closest thing, but it's a once a day power if you didn't notice. Hardly efficient, and it has a save. I repeat: How are you intimidating?

I told you the 3 ways you can do this. Pick one and then we can actually help you.

Also as mentioned you're not a Fighter, and nothing on those pages indicate your Nightblade levels count as fighter levels for the purposes of feats, or that you can take feats without needing the prerequisites.


My bad. I was on two hours of sleep and I'm not sure what I was thinking. But I'm thinking about the dazzling display because most of my characters actions will probably be illusion/touch attack based spells so I don't see much opportunity in pushing a damage route. Figured get a reach weapon and combat reflex for AoO's and focus spells/intimidates on my turn.


KitsuneKid wrote:
My bad. I was on two hours of sleep and I'm not sure what I was thinking. But I'm thinking about the dazzling display because most of my characters actions will probably be illusion/touch attack based spells so I don't see much opportunity in pushing a damage route. Figured get a reach weapon and combat reflex for AoO's and focus spells/intimidates on my turn.

The main problem with Dazzling Display as mentioned, is it's a full-round action. Certain other classes, like Cavalier with the Order of the Cockatrice, get not only a free Dazzling Display, they also get it as a standard action, not a full-round. This is huge. I think there may be another that also achieves this, some kind of Vigilante archetype maybe? I can't remember though.

So if you're going Dazzling Display, you're going to be needing...

Weapon Focus
Dazzling Display
Hurtful
Soulless Gaze
Some other Damantion feat
Shatter Defenses
Power Attack
Cornugon Smash

At the end of the day you're still losing your entire turn to Full-rounding a single Dazzling Display, but with these we can make some magic.

Dazzling Display near an enemy. Demoralize them into shaken, also causing them to become flat-footed thanks to Shatter Defenses. This triggers a power attacked Hurtful, giving you a free attack action. Hitting with this triggers Cornugon Smash, causing another intimidate, which thanks to a Rank 2 Soulless Gaze, now triggers Frightened. Repeat the process next turn, causing the nearby enemies who were shaken, to also now become Frightened.

Honestly, I'd definitely recommend that Cavalier dip if you're going this route, it'll give you a lot more freedom to maintain your move action in combat at the least, but it's up to you.


Hmmm. I will begin without the dip. My GM is a fairly new GM and I may be able to slide by still moving in my dazzling display round otherwise if I cannot get away with it I'll consider dipping or I might not just for role play sake even though that will leave me slightly less optimized.


Two levels of Viking Fighter give you two bonus Feats and the option to use Intimidate as a Move-Action in combat rather than a standard.


So I take soulless gaze twice in order to get the second level of it correct?


KitsuneKid wrote:
So I take soulless gaze twice in order to get the second level of it correct?

No you take another damanation feat. I forget the name, but probably the only one your interested in is going to be the one that hides your alignment. The other two are more for casters.

As an aside, I'm currently running a Tyrant Antipaladin of Asmodeus for Hell's Vengeance.

I plan to use Cornugon Smash with Hurtful with the Cruel weapon enhancement to cause shaken and sickened. I also plan on using Conductive weapon enhancement to apply Touch of Corruption and Cruelties. I'm also taking Soulless Gaze and Mask of Virtue.

However, Enforcer intrigues me. I'm currently using a nodachi as my weapon, what are my options to deal non-lethal damage?

Blade of Mercy obviously doesn't work from a fluff standpoint and I already have my two traits picked out (one HV specific, other is magical lineage). Bludgeoneer requires a bludgeoning weapon. I can apply the merciful enchant I guess, but that's eating up 3 enhancement bonus points between conductive, cruel, and merciful. The only mitigating factor is I can cast Greater Magic Weapon and since I'm two-handed power attacking DR is less of an issue. We're also uses ABP, so I can afford to have an cold-iron, silver, and adamantine weapons eventually and attune them as necessary.

Still what is the easiest way? Any other magic items or feats that I could take to make Enforcer work?

So far my character has been taking virtually everyone prisoner in Hell's Vengeance instead of killing them and I've been very intimidating so it thematically makes sense...I just don't know how to make it work mechanically.


I took this and used a warhammer. More feats but opens your use a bit.


I guess I could use a heavy flail. I really like high crit range weapons, which is why I was using a nodachi. But I guess I can use one to make it work.


You can get dazzling display down to a standard with a vigilante, but it's through a feat requiring at least three levels in vigilante and character level 7, so not recommended.

If you can't get Dazzling Display down to a standard action, it's absolutely not worth taking. It's only got a 30 yard range, and if you can't move before you use it, chances are you will rarely hit more than one enemy.

I don't recommend asking your inexperienced DM to allow you to simply make Dazzling Display a standard action because if you're going to start heavily modifying feats, you're going to destroy the game's balance very quickly. Everyone with buffs to intimidate would take the Dazzling Display feat chain if it was a standard, as the debuffs you can stack with it become very powerful.


Space McMan wrote:

You can get dazzling display down to a standard with a vigilante, but it's through a feat requiring at least three levels in vigilante and character level 7, so not recommended.

If you can't get Dazzling Display down to a standard action, it's absolutely not worth taking. It's only got a 30 yard range, and if you can't move before you use it, chances are you will rarely hit more than one enemy.
...

Equipment Trick (cloak) can help with that. One of its benefits is that it increases the duration of the demoralize effect by 1d4 rounds. And let's not forget that your allies benefit from having shaken enemies, so it isn't useless even if you don't follow Dazzling Display with an attack.

You can also get more value for that full-round action by using a Dazzling Radiance weapon which will blind and/or dazzle everyone within 15' when you use Dazzling Display.


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I'm sorry, but every time I see the headline I read "Intimate" build instead of "Intimidate". Then I giggle to myself.

I need a hobby. Oh...wait..


KitsuneKid wrote:
Hmmm. I will begin without the dip. My GM is a fairly new GM and I may be able to slide by still moving in my dazzling display round otherwise if I cannot get away with it I'll consider dipping or I might not just for role play sake even though that will leave me slightly less optimized.

Do not lie to your DM or take advantage of his being new and unaware of certain rules etc. That's terrible. Take a dip into Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier, it's not terrible frankly. For the 2 level dip you get the benefit of:

Free Dazzling Display
Dazzling Display as a standard action
+2 morale bonus to hit shaken enemies
Mount
Challenge +2 to damage
Tactician
Full BAB
+3 to your weak Fort save
Cavalier and Nightblade even have synergy with their CHA stats

Alternatively, you can dabble in archetypes to customize the above slightly. Personally I dislike mounts since I find them unwieldy, and a pain to lose when they die as it often carries a heavy penalty, but the Ghost Rider archetype gives you a pretty rad spectral mount you don't have to worry about getting killed since it always returns the next day, and can be a nice bit of flavor that you don't even need to care about or ever use in combat since you can freely (un)manifest it. You also get a weak little Frightful Gaze that could come in handy at times but lose Tactician.

I realize this definitely isn't what you're looking for also, but maybe a Cleric of Urgathoa may be a better choice for a support/debuffer? With Shatter Resolve and Variant Channeling Disease you can dish out some hefty penalties to a whole group of enemies and nearly trivialize an encounter. It's tough to recover from -4s to hit and by level 10 you even get a free Contagion on a target of your choice during the Channel. You get to keep your Scythe too since it's Her favored weapon.


I love the idea of the spectral mount, but taking 2 levels in another class will devastate my magic using potential won't it?


KitsuneKid wrote:
I love the idea of the spectral mount, but taking 2 levels in another class will devastate my magic using potential won't it?

It will, but this can be mitigated. It really depends on what spells you plan on using. It'll push back your casting progression so you'll be behind on learning new spells, but say you're eyeballing certain spells that are based on your caster level, you could take Magical Knack as your trait and suddenly your're right back to your full CL. So you'd be a 2 Cavalier/2 Nightblade, but still have a 4 CL for say a 4d6 Shocking Grasp, instead of the 2d6.


Claxon wrote:


However, Enforcer intrigues me. I'm currently using a nodachi as my weapon, what are my options to deal non-lethal damage?

Stage Combatant feat, Weapon of Peace trait (some flavor issues)


Halinn wrote:
Claxon wrote:
However, Enforcer intrigues me. I'm currently using a nodachi as my weapon, what are my options to deal non-lethal damage?
Stage Combatant feat, Weapon of Peace trait (some flavor issues)

These are all of the ways that I know of to deal nonlethal damage with lethal weapons without a penalty.

Traits
Blade of Mercy (religion-Sarenrae): all slashing weapons
Merciful Scimitar (combat): scimitars
Mock Gladiator (social): any one weapon

Feats
Bludgeoner (combat): all bludgeoning weapons
Merciful Bane (general): any weapon currently affected by your Bane class ability
Stage Combatant (combat): any weapon for which you have Weapon Focus
Virtuous Creed, Mercy (general): all weapons

Weapon Special Abilities
Merciful: any weapon


What feats on what level? Not sure which order to do them.

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