Skills and Magic


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Are there any skills or uses of skills that aren't covered in some way by magic? I'm not talking just a direct translation (+x to Skill checks), but stuff like using the fly spell instead of Acrobatics to jump or Climb to get up an unknotted rope.


*Rubs chin* Uh, off the top of my head, magic has no substitute for using Profession (Soldier) to improve the number of Boons that an army can know under the Mass Combat rules.


UMD? (being able to cast spells does not make this skill worthless) Perception (it's too frequent to be solved with spells).


Charm Person, Suggestion, Dominate, etc are all well and good, but nothing beats Diplomacy for making people like you in the long term. Especially people with higher Will than Charisma.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Appraise - I don't know of any spell that directly tells you the value of items.
Disable Device - I'm not sure there's a spell equivalent to sabotage devices.
Perform to make money

A lot of spell substitutes are measurably worse than actually having the skill - (find traps, knock for example)


With the caveat that I'm not going to consider wish and miracle, since they're kind of open ended enough to theoretically do anything, and that I don't know all the spells in the game by heart so I might have missed something, I think the following:

Knowledge skills can only partially be replaced by divination. Specifically, it is very expensive, difficult and time consuming to try and learn about monster strengths/weaknesses via something like commune vs. just passing a knowledge check. Also, there may be plenty of cases where you get a reactive check to know relevant information you wouldn't even necessarily know to ask a divination spell for.

Partially Bluff, maybe? As far as I know there aren't any spells that let you automatically lie to people and have them believe you.

Disguise, although you're vulnerable to magical detection without magical help or at least class features. Stronger than magic vs. some types of divination though, like true seeing.

Spellcraft, you can auto ID magic items with analyze dweomer, but I think most of the other things it does are not easily replicated.

Stealth, with the rather significant caveat that magic can both boost your check tremendously and provide the ability to use the skill at all in many more cases than someone who just has the skill trained.

Sleight of Hand, I'm not aware of any way to pickpocket people magically.

Corrections welcome if I've just missed spells that replicate these things.


Rub-Eta wrote:
UMD? (being able to cast spells does not make this skill worthless) Perception (it's too frequent to be solved with spells).

Divination can tell you how to make a magic item work, and thus might bypass UMD since you know the command word or trick to make the item work.

Summoning brings others that can do perception for you. Ditto getting a homologous linked to you.

PK the Dragon wrote:
Charm Person, Suggestion, Dominate, etc are all well and good, but nothing beats Diplomacy for making people like you in the long term. Especially people with higher Will than Charisma.

Sow Thought is a good start. So is Modify Memory.

ryric wrote:

Appraise - I don't know of any spell that directly tells you the value of items.

Disable Device - I'm not sure there's a spell equivalent to sabotage devices.
Perform to make money

A lot of spell substitutes are measurably worse than actually having the skill - (find traps, knock for example)

Discern Value takes care of appraise.

Disintegrate works great for disable. If you want it to not be obvious, then consider Warp Wood.

Fabricate is much easier for quick money than perform(any). Triple the value for a single spell? Take that (!), perform.

GM 7thGate wrote:

With the caveat that I'm not going to consider wish and miracle, since they're kind of open ended enough to theoretically do anything, and that I don't know all the spells in the game by heart so I might have missed something, I think the following:

Knowledge skills can only partially be replaced by divination. Specifically, it is very expensive, difficult and time consuming to try and learn about monster strengths/weaknesses via something like commune vs. just passing a knowledge check. Also, there may be plenty of cases where you get a reactive check to know relevant information you wouldn't even necessarily know to ask a divination spell for.

Partially Bluff, maybe? As far as I know there aren't any spells that let you automatically lie to people and have them believe you.

Disguise, although you're vulnerable to magical detection without magical help or at least class features. Stronger than magic vs. some types of divination though, like true seeing.

Spellcraft, you can auto ID magic items with analyze dweomer, but I think most of the other things it does are not easily replicated.

Stealth, with the rather significant caveat that magic can both boost your check tremendously and provide the ability to use the skill at all in many more cases than someone who just has the skill trained.

Sleight of Hand, I'm not aware of any way to pickpocket people magically.

Corrections welcome if I've just missed spells that replicate these things.

Legend Lore covers a lot that Divination doesn't.

Sow Thought and Modify Memory can cover Bluff's lie function.

Read Magic is specifically for deciphering a scroll.
Blood Transcription works for learning spells.
Magic Weapon (and Greater) make magic items.

Fly can help bypass the need for stealth.
So can Dimension Door, and Teleport.
Fog Cloud can make you stealthy. :-)
Disguise Self can make you fit in better, obligating the need for stealth.

Telekinesis can manipulate as if with a single hand, so should be able to remotely pick a pocket. Probably still need the skill though.
Apport Object can pick another's pocket, but only of prepared items. [Like the small gem you just used to pay for something.]
Demand Offering is like picking pockets, kinda.

/cevah

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