Test subject gone wrong - Bloodrager build help


Advice


Hello,

I am toying with the idea of a Bloodrager who was a failed science experiment. Basically looks like a normal guy but turns into a disgusting hulk when raging.

I am torn between a natural attack build or a reach build.

For natural attacks I was going to go for abyssal bloodline as a half-orc (with the toothy bite attack), and eventually trying to get the Dragon Ferocity style feat. This is a heavy feat investment with feral combat and that stupid weapon focus requirement. The end result would be massive bonuses to strength and x2 or x1.5 strength to damage, three natural attacks at full base attack bonus. Also, spell conduit, and maybe would have to have a 1 level dip into monk to get the unarmed combat and stunning fist feats.

Alternately the reach build would involve a crossblooded aberrant/abyssal build for the large size and aberrant reach, wielding a reach weapon. I would still have the two claw attacks in case things get close. I could even go for combat patrol later. This would likely be a human.

Also tumor familiar would be fun and fit the theme, maybe with protector archetype.

Do you think either of these are viable or how could I improve the concept?

Thanks!


The second wants all the physical abilities and a dash of charisma so isn't likely to have more than ~12 wisdom, maybe less. The archetype gives -2 on will saves and that's a poor save for a bloodrager; at least one of their defences will be terrible. AC and reflex aren't likely to be amazing either. It's a real glass cannon.

The first seems workable though. A bloodrager can afford a dip, though you do wonder what monastery would admit to being associated with this monster.


Is Primalist allowed? Then you have plenty more Options with rage powers - Lesser fiend totem adds a fourth natural attack.

To maximize the natural attack build, you could go skinwalker (ragebred). With extra Feature, they gain one gore attack and two hooves by race, add claws from abyssal bloodrage and later buy a pelt of the beast (boar) to get a bite and other useful stuff. All fitting thematically, though maybe for failed science Experiment, you'd chose something like genetic experiments to cross boar and man.

Primalist then offers you boar's charge for the (as far as I know) only option in this game to get auto crits (while charging, but that fits Dragon Style well).

The reach build Looks decent already. Maybe try go the way towards whirlwind attack


Keep in mind that Feral Combat Training only applies to one natural attack you have weapon focus for. You would have to take Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training again for your Dragon Ferocity to apply to another kind of natural attack.

I like the concept but I think you would gain more from going Barbarian instead of Bloodrager. I know those bloodlines are awesome but consider this... Titan Mauler Barbarian. I know most of their bonuses are towards manufactured weapons but the main take here is Titanic Rage. Evade Reach and Big Game Hunter could also be helpful. I do want to mention the awesome effect of a Titan Mauler with the Body Bludgeon rage power... its quite enjoyable lol BUT you are looking for a natural attack build SO....

RAGE POWERS
Bloody Bite (1d6 bleed on bite)
Lesser Beast Totem (2 claws)
Beast Totem (NA bonuses)
Greater Beast Totem (Pounce, 1d8 claws x3 critical)
+others

FEATS
Rending Claws
Rending Fury
Improved Rending Fury
Greater Rending Fury


If you're going natural attacks, I'll also point out the new bloodrager spell that grants a tail attack (from Legacy of Dragons).


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Another option I just considered is Ragechemist Alchemist. That would actually fit your failed science experiment theme pretty well. Feral Mutagen discovery would give you the natural attacks you desire and the Rage Mutagen would give you the beserking qualities you want. Extracts will give you more spell like options than a bloodrager would get as well. It's feat hungry but if you wanted to supplement your body with a sorcerer bloodline take the Eldritch Heritage feat line for extra abilities that are permanent.

Half-Elf might work for the Skill Focus bonus feat (prerequisite for Eldritch Heritage) or Human for their flexible bonus feat to compensate. Half-Orc would be a good option as well due to their ferocity feats.

Additionally, Master Chymist prestige class might appeal to you as well. If you want to be an experiment gone wrong... this is the place to look :)


I agree that Ragechemist is nice for a beatstick, though I'd make sure you spend some points on a decent Wis score and look into improving your Will save, otherwise the negative side effects can snowball in a fight until you're unconscious.

Beastmorph or Metamorph are some other fitting options of archetypes.

I also agree whole-heartedly on Master Chymist. It's always the first thing I think of when someone wants to have an uncontrollable change or anything similar. It's essentially Bruce Banner/Hulk or Dr Jekyll/Hyde as a class. Though the new Vigilante class might also be able to produce a similar character now (I haven't looked into the class much yet).


Great suggestions everyone thank you.

I have decided to go with Ragebred Skinwalker for the gore and hoof natural attacks, and then will be trying to make the Pelt of the Beast (this campaign will have some customized rules making it easier for anyone to make their own magic items).

Featwise I will be going for the Tumor Familiar (protector archetype), extra feature (for skinwalker), combat reflexes (even without a reach weapon my reach will be quite large by 8th level), power attack, improved natural attack, maybe fast change if the change into boar mode becomes annoying.

Redblade8, do you know the name of that new Bloodrager spell that gives a tail attack? Can't find it on the SRD.

I am a bit torn between Rageshaper and Spelleater.

Rageshaper gets me the better damage with my claws, and some other benefits with transmutation magic that I probably won't have much use for. All I give up for this is improved uncanny dodge and the useless sanctuary ability.

Spelleater gives up both uncanny dodges and damage reduction in exchange for fast healing, but only when raging. This feels like a trap as it won't save me if I fall unconscious from damage, and doesn't really help in healing between battles. Basically it mitigates too little damage, and only ends up healing double my daily rage rounds per day (unless I burn spell slots)

I feel like I need some survivability. Steelblood, and anything else trying to pump my AC feels like a futile effort with this build. In addition to the normal -2 AC while raging, large size will be another -1, and Abyssal Bloodrage is another -2. My AC is going to suck and I would rather try to pump something else for defence.

Thanks again.


Improved Natural Attack will only apply to one of your various natural attacks (bite, gore, hoof, claw, etc.). So it's not that much of an increase in damage by itself. You could take one for each of your types of natural attacks, but that would get feat intensive.

As for changing shape taking an action, there's nothing that says you can't walk around in your changed form all the time, as far as I know. Saves you the action. It's about the same as a fighter who says they always have their weapon readied. If need be, you can turn it off for social situations, or when walking through town or sitting around in a tavern. But there isn't anything wrong with having it on in order to be prepared for trouble.


The improved natural attack feat would only be used on my claw attacks as they will also be increased by Bestial Aspect (Rageshaper) and large size from the Abyssal Bloodline. Plus I may come across other ways to increase my damage dice such as the Strong Jaw spell.

That will eventually add up to a significant increase to my damage dice for claw attacks.

I could definitely cut fast change if I find a better feat. Raging Vitality seems like a good replacement.


Arcus wrote:

The improved natural attack feat would only be used on my claw attacks as they will also be increased by Bestial Aspect (Rageshaper) and large size from the Abyssal Bloodline. Plus I may come across other ways to increase my damage dice such as the Strong Jaw spell.

That will eventually add up to a significant increase to my damage dice for claw attacks.

I could definitely cut fast change if I find a better feat. Raging Vitality seems like a good replacement.

You would need the Rage class feature to qualify for Raging Vitality unfortunately... although a GM might waive this restriction if you are a Primalist (mine did)


Bloodragers count as having the rage class feature for feats, magic items and so on.

The only thing they don't have access to is the extra rage power feat, as it requires the rage power class feature.

I strongly encourage taking raging vitality, otherwise on higher levels falling unconcious means auto-death. Besides, +2 CON is awesome.

I'm also interested in this new spell. Especially spell level, duration, damage dice? Could anyone help out?


Prof. Löwenzahn wrote:

Bloodragers count as having the rage class feature for feats, magic items and so on.

The only thing they don't have access to is the extra rage power feat, as it requires the rage power class feature.

I strongly encourage taking raging vitality, otherwise on higher levels falling unconcious means auto-death. Besides, +2 CON is awesome.

I'm also interested in this new spell. Especially spell level, duration, damage dice? Could anyone help out?

I totally missed that, thank you. I knew about the Extra Rage Power thing and thought Bloodrage didn't count as the rage class feature as well.


Just discovered the Boar's resilience trait that would allow the following:

Bloodrager, crossblooded(aberrant/abyssal), spelleater
"Ragebread" (wereboar-kin)

1 - Diehard
3 - Fast Healer (there is debate about whether this works with the fast healing of spelleater, I believe it should, and the DM seems ok with it)
5 - Tumor Familiar (protector)
6 - Bonus feat power attack (late I know)
7 - ??? (maybe lunge)
9 - Bonus feat combat reflexes
9 - ??? (maybe improved natural attack for claws)

Bloodline powers: claws at 1st, large size while raging at 4th, extra 5' reach at 8th.

Str 20, Con 17 (19 when raging), Dex 14, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14
(Stats are weird in this game: 18 down, so this means you have an 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, and a 13)

At level 3 I would have fast healing 4 (1 from spell eater, and my con is 23 when raging so that is +3 to my fast healing each round).

At 1st level my weapon attacks when raging are claw, claw, gore. Each attack is at +8 and 1d6+8 damage. It would be nice to have power attack earlier but I think my damage is respectable.

The diehard feat should sort of deal with the issue of ending my rage when below 0 and dying.

Probably just get a chain shirt since my AC is shit anyway and everything will hit me.

I'll get the Pelt of the beast ASAP for adding a bite and hoof attacks to the mix for 6 attacks (4 primary). Then I just need someone to cast strong jaw on me.

After longarm spell my reach will be like 25' I think so full attacking most of the time should be easy.


Long Arm does what it says - don't assume it increases the reach of your gore or bite.

Raging Vitality would be a lot better for survivability than Diehard IMO. Staying fully conscious below zero makes you still a target, and of course RV gives you the extra +2 Con too.


Yeah I agree but I need diehard to get Fast Healer.

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