Build for a Gnome Becoming a Shadowdancer


Advice


One of the more interesting prestige classes I've always wanted to try is the shadowdancer, a unique class that utilizes the lack of light. And I thought a gnome could work, due to their proficiency in illusion like magic.

Though I'm not sure what would work; I've heard mainly ninja and rogue, but I've also heard bards (especially the archaeologist archetype) and inquisitors make other good class choices. What would be a good setup for this class buildup?

Silver Crusade

Almost anything with a full base attack bonus can make an effective shadowdancer. Average base attack bonus classes can struggle if they want to go into shadowdancer ASAP as they end up with no BAB progression at levels 1, 5 & 6. Dipping 1 level of a full BAB class can correct this slightly, but this is nothing to worry about if you're playing a home game that uses fractional base bonuses.

Paladins make interesting shadowdancers as they are a full BAB class which get a lot of mileage from Charisma which is a good score for the gnome and also the driving force for a shadowdancers shadow conjurations.

Slayer is also another decent route to take as it's a full BAB class that is probably also the most thematic with the concept of a shadowdancer.


Jack Amy wrote:

Almost anything with a full base attack bonus can make an effective shadowdancer. Average base attack bonus classes can struggle if they want to go into shadowdancer ASAP as they end up with no BAB progression at levels 1, 5 & 6. Dipping 1 level of a full BAB class can correct this slightly, but this is nothing to worry about if you're playing a home game that uses fractional base bonuses.

Paladins make interesting shadowdancers as they are a full BAB class which get a lot of mileage from Charisma which is a good score for the gnome and also the driving force for a shadowdancers shadow conjurations.

Slayer is also another decent route to take as it's a full BAB class that is probably also the most thematic with the concept of a shadowdancer.

Wait, paladins can make interesting shadowdancers? I find that strange...though it could make an interesting "I use the darkness for good" kind of scenario...

Would a full vanilla paladin work, or a specific archetype?

Silver Crusade

Vanilla paladin does work, but you do have to commit your 1st, 3rd & 5th level feats to combat reflexes, dodge & mobility. You will also suffer for skill ranks until you enter the shadowdancer class.

2-4 levels of paladin is probably ideal as there is little to be gained from the 5th level. Oath of Vengeance is probably a decent archetype to take as you can trade your lay on hands uses which get weaker as you grow in level for always relevant smite evils.

1-2 levels of fighter can help with the feat tax. Levels of ranger or slayer can help with skill ranks if required.

In terms of flavour, Kelinahat is the Lawful Good Empyreal lord of spies, stealth and intelligence gathering. Shadowdancer powers would be a good fit for a Paladin of She of Ebon Wings.


Ok, so paladin up to 4th with Oath of Vengeance, with maybe a couple of levels in fighter for help with the feats and maybe ranger/slayer for skill ranks. And yeah, Kelinahat is a pretty good thematic match for a paladin/shadowdancer mix. Not sure what the point build would be, with most likely Charisma my main point, and Constitution/Strength second (even though gnomes get a penalty to Strength)

Silver Crusade

What point-buy are you using? Assuming 20, something like Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 16 after racial modifiers might be workable, with your level bonus going into strength every 4 levels. Smite should help overcome the lower strength score against the tougher foes.


Yeah, I'm assuming a 20 point buy (as that's what I usually see recommended in recruitment on this site).

I also saw that shadowdancers are only proficient in light armor, and I believe that the evasion ability they get at the 1st level of that prestige class doesn't work if the character's wearing medium or heavy armor; so, I'm assuming that a chain shirt would be the best option for this gnome set up (giving a good armor bonus to AC while still being light), but I could be dead wrong.

Silver Crusade

Even though shadowdancers are only proficient with light armour, you'll still be proficient with medium & heavy from the Paladin levels. However mobility will be a concern for you as a gnome so light is probably the way to go. Chain shirt until you can afford a mithral agile breastplate.

If you find the 20ft. movement speed to be too much of a problem, you do have the option to dip one level of bloodrager for +10 ft to your movement speed. Bloodrage can also offset your lowish strength for an encounter or two each day and can be combined with Smite Evil for devastating impact.


Hmm...alright, I guess the dip into bloodrager for the +10 ft speed would work, on top of the bloodrage (which bloodline to choose, though...I'm trying to choose something besides celestial).

I also noticed the 2 ranks in Perform (dance), but that shouldn't be too much of an issue as I can put ranks into it without it being a class skill. Still, I think that with each new ranks I get, I'll have to put them into Stealth (which thankfully will be somewhat useful once the shadowdancer kicks in, thanks to the gnome's +4 Stealth bonus due to being small, and the chain mail only having a -2 armor check penalty; this means that even if I put a rank into it at 1st level, it'll still be a +4 on a skill check).

So, I suppose the advancement could be something similar to this:

1st: Paladin, Feat (most likely Dodge or Combat Reflexes)
2nd: Bloodrager
3rd: Paladin, Feat (Dodge if I haven't selected Combat Reflexes, or vice versa)
4th: Paladin, +1 to Strength
5th: Paladin, Feat (Mobility)

That's all I can think of so far. Not sure where else to go with that; either start off as a shadowdancer at 6th level and focus on it from there, or dip more into other classes; from what I've heard, the best ability the shadowdancer gets is the summon shadow ability (which personally I think is awesome-having a shadow as a companion?!)

Silver Crusade

You're not wrong, shadow companions are awesome. Once you're at 8th level and are a Paladin 4/Bloodrager 1/Shadowdancer 3 you'll have a good idea what your strengths and weaknesses are where the holes in the build are.

You are lacking some of the staple combat feats, so a level of fighter early on may not hurt to pick up power attack. You could just rely on rage and smite though and pick it up at 7th though.

As for bloodline, elemental will let you do some extra damage which is especially useful early on, or undead can give foes the shaken condition for 1 round without allowing a saving throw, which will help allied casters land their spells.


Hmm...you do have some good points. Maybe something like this?

1st: Paladin
2nd: Bloodrager (Elemental bloodline)
3rd: Fighter, Bonus Feat (Power Attack)
4th: Paladin
5th: Paladin
6th: Paladin
7th: Shadowdancer
8th: Shadowdancer
9th: Shadowdancer

And with that, like you said, perhaps dip into the other classes; maybe Fighter from time to time to get an extra feat? I guess it'll all depend on where I can go with this buildup.

The Exchange

Cavalier, using an archetype that eliminates the mount, would also work - and have less skill-starvation than the paladin build. I'd probably recommend the Daring Champion from ACG, since it replaces the mount with "Dex build" options and rewards you for using light armor (both great for the stealth-oriented).


Lincoln Hills wrote:
Cavalier, using an archetype that eliminates the mount, would also work - and have less skill-starvation than the paladin build. I'd probably recommend the Daring Champion from ACG, since it replaces the mount with "Dex build" options and rewards you for using light armor (both great for the stealth-oriented).

Hmm...I'll take that into consideration as well...but I think what I have for now could theoretically work.


i had a halfling cavalier 5 that took 4 levels into SD.
i kept the mount but used a hostling armor.
so.... i couldm have a full mount (boon companion) that can enter my armor if needed stealth. i had a full shadow that had ok hp.
and i was a -1 bab small killer.

it wasnt optimized at all, but was fun to play.

slayer 6 > SD 4 > slayer X is even better.


Why not combine paladin and ninja? Extra attacks from ki and vanishing strike if needed. Also cuts down on the skill cost.


xDemoquinx wrote:
Why not combine paladin and ninja? Extra attacks from ki and vanishing strike if needed. Also cuts down on the skill cost.

Did not notice this until now. I did figure on a paladin and ninja build for the shadowdancer, so would it be more like this:

1st-Paladin
2nd-Ninja
3rd-Paladin
4th-Paladin
5th-Paladin
6th-SD

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