Hello all, been away from any kind of civilization and normal life for quite a long time. But I'm finally back, ish, and looking to take up playing the game again. That said, I'm particularly rusty, and despite some lovely guides, I could use some advice on how to make a certain themed character.
Ideally, I would be going for something along the lines of a valkyrie, very martial, perhaps with a SLIGHT touch of magical support, and builds a lot based around a fly speed.
As I see it, this requires a fly speed that can't be dispelled, and is pretty much always on, rather than x/day. The only good options I know of, are Aasimar alternate features, or the feat chain for aasimars that grants it at level 10. However, this is locked at 20ft and poor maneuverability, considering this will be a martial, and almost certainly in heavy armor.
That said, I'm hoping to find a way to improve that, or other options for a natural flying ability for such a character.
Beyond that, I'm not entirely sure how to build the character itself. With the advantages of flight, it seems like it'd be begging for a reach weapon (On that note, are there any options other than polearm master fighter for hitting adjacent people?) or the airborne charge/flyby attack route.
Specifically, is a fly speed largely the same as a land speed in terms of rules? (Double move, charging, etc)
So far, depending on the combat style, and what options are available, I could see fighter filling in the many feats required, or possibly ranger of some kind, or vigilante. That said, I'm horribly out of practice, and would like to know how some of you would tackle a situation like this.
For the flying speed, convince your gm to allow you to play a Strix. They come with a 60 feet flying speed with average manouvrebility
For the flying speed, convince your gm to allow you to play a Strix. They come with a 60 feet flying speed with average manouvrebility
I do admit, I'd been hoping for some other aasimar/angelic options to fit the Valkyrie theme, but that's a vanity point, not necessary to the build. I don't know how the strix managed to slip by under my nose, but that's a great idea, thanks!
There are some differences with a land speed regarding minimum speed and changing direction. Look up the Fly skill and you'll see what I mean.
There are a number of ways of attacking adjacent creatures when wielding a polearm. The spear dancing style feat, or having a natural weapon you can use, or possibly beefing up an unarmed strike or armor spikes, or casting a touch attack spell. Some of these will require you to hold the polearm in one hand while you do them. Flyby attack combines well with a reach weapon since that feat doesn't remove attacks of opportunity against you for moving out of an area threatened by your opponent. Being outside their reach would be good.
Without knowing what you want to do exactly it's hard to recommend a class though. Any number of classes fit the 'armored martial with a polearm, and possibly a slight touch of magic' bill.
There are some differences with a land speed regarding minimum speed and changing direction. Look up the Fly skill and you'll see what I mean.
There are a number of ways of attacking adjacent creatures when wielding a polearm. The spear dancing style feat, or having a natural weapon you can use, or possibly beefing up an unarmed strike or armor spikes, or casting a touch attack spell. Some of these will require you to hold the polearm in one hand while you do them. Flyby attack combines well with a reach weapon since that feat doesn't remove attacks of opportunity against you for moving out of an area threatened by your opponent. Being outside their reach would be good.
Without knowing what you want to do exactly it's hard to recommend a class though. Any number of classes fit the 'armored martial with a polearm, and possibly a slight touch of magic' bill.
Thanks for the tips! Let's see...
Looking up the fly skill, definitely affects turning and hovering, but nothing on charging and movement ACTIONS, so I can safely assume it works as a normal land speed in those regards.
Just looked up the spear dancing style, and it's pretty neat, though it takes me away from my shield-wielding hopes, I think I could make something like that work, though apparently I won't get the reach qualities back until much higher level.
As to the others, well, it works and all, but it mostly reduces itself to using a secondary weapon rather than focusing on just one. Still, I can look into it for options.
As far as the class itself, that's something I'm still thinking on. I've been prejudiced in the past with the idea that pure martials just have a hard time competing, but I do want most of my actions to be around being able to maneuver and attack in creative ways. To that end, I was thinking some version of the vigilante could work, but I wasn't ready to rule out thinks like bloodrager or magus, (Though that would hamper the reach idea, as I'm not aware of any one handers except possibly the whip.)
My main goal here was a flying character to reduce the weakness of martial mobility in traditional fighty types, but I certainly wouldn't mind giving them support to unleash a few devastating attacks or self buffs to fill the role I originally imagined, I.E. The Valkyrie type.
If you considered a magus then you're looking at more than a slight touch of magic. But yeah, they're not your best option for a polearm-wielder, their mechanics work best with blades. A bloodrager does work though - taking a hand off the polearm for a moment to cast a buff spell isn't a problem for them. A celestial bloodline bloodrager might fit your image nicely.
Spear + shield isn't impossible as a style but it tends to lock you into two-weapon fighting and shield bashing, which eliminates most movement and takes up all your feats (probably not what you want, from what you say.)
A brawler with the exemplar archetype might fit your shining leader type (if I'm understanding what you mean by Valkyrie correctly) while their ability to pick up feats temporarily might fit your wish for options.
If you considered a magus then you're looking at more than a slight touch of magic. But yeah, they're not your best option for a polearm-wielder, their mechanics work best with blades. A bloodrager does work though - taking a hand off the polearm for a moment to cast a buff spell isn't a problem for them. A celestial bloodline bloodrager might fit your image nicely.
Spear + shield isn't impossible as a style but it tends to lock you into two-weapon fighting and shield bashing, which eliminates most movement and takes up all your feats (probably not what you want, from what you say.)
A brawler with the exemplar archetype might fit your shining leader type (if I'm understanding what you mean by Valkyrie correctly) while their ability to pick up feats temporarily might fit your wish for options.
I may very well go bloodrager, you were right about the magus being a lot more magic, hence why I was a bit hesitant on it. The bloodrager is sounding pretty good, after a few closer looks.
I'm a bit confused. I'm aware of how to do two-weapon and shield bashing, but I thought that that would still require a one-handed weapon and a shield, thus making most reach weapons not qualify?
Exemplar looks pretty good, I may very well consider some version of brawler like this, or maybe look into going chevalier from bloodrager. My real goal of the valkyrie role was a true battle maiden, honor, chivalry, and all that without some of the shackles of paladin codes, and the ability to fly around, hitting things really hard with a lot of battle prowess (And -perhaps- a hint of mysticism.)
All in all, this is a lot to think about, and I suppose I have to consider my options.
Spear and shield wouldn't have reach, no. That would use the weapon PF calls a shortspear.
If you do want a hint of mysticism one more idea. The medium character class - it chooses a spirit to bind to for most of its class features at the start of each day (or more temporarily & more often with the spirit dancer archetype) and when binding the champion spirit at least it qualifies as a martial character. The various spirit options make it a complicated class, and while it's not bad it's not quite the best at anything, but if you want options it's there.
I agree that Celestial Bloodrager is a great fit for this concept, mechanically and flavour-wise. If you go Strix for natural flight, the penalty to CHA hurts a little, but not too bad, as it is only your secondary stat as a Bloodrager anyways.
It might arguably be best suited for a dip (where a lower CHA matters even less, and since you don't get bloodrage wings until 12th anyways), just to add that righteous avenging angel feel when her bloodrage kicks off. It could easily be combined with a fighter or ranger for the combat feats you need for the other aspects of the build.
Shiney could use the Crossblooded Archetype to mix Destined and Celestial together and, if Shiney can be a Strix, trade wings for something else. Destined is a pretty awesome bloodline on its own as well.
Wow, A lot to respond to. Again, to everyone, thanks a lot for the input.
Ideally, I had hoped to start from the get go with wings, so strix, or dealing with the clunkiness of aasimar is kind of required, but if it ends up being a game that starts off at a level fairly close to them, I may skip out on that.
As for being a druid, it's a fantastic concept, but doesn't really fill in the role I'm looking for with this character. Thankfully, I know more about monster/natural attacking than I do about using a regular martial.
The Phalanx soldier sounds surprisingly decent, I may make it a dip if I'm dead set on shield and spear, or I have other options available to me, just a bit more feat intensive than I was hoping for this traditional combination.
I'm a bit confused. I'm aware of how to do two-weapon and shield bashing, but I thought that that would still require a one-handed weapon and a shield, thus making most reach weapons not qualify?There is the Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype. You will be able to wield a Pole Arm in 1 hand and a Shield in the other.
Think that might be worth picking up as part of a multiclass, Scott?
The ability comes in at 3rd level, and the extra stuff after that probably isn't great, and doesn't tailor to the concept, so I'm thinking it could be a sensible multiclass. I don't have a real familarity with the archetype though, so I'd be interested in your thoughts.
I'm a bit confused. I'm aware of how to do two-weapon and shield bashing, but I thought that that would still require a one-handed weapon and a shield, thus making most reach weapons not qualify?There is the Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype. You will be able to wield a Pole Arm in 1 hand and a Shield in the other.Think that might be worth picking up as part of a multiclass, Scott?
The ability comes in at 3rd level, and the extra stuff after that probably isn't great, and doesn't tailor to the concept, so I'm thinking it could be a sensible multiclass. I don't have a real familarity with the archetype though, so I'd be interested in your thoughts.
Is your concept the same as Shiney's? What is your concept?
When I first thought of using Phalanx Soldier, I had no ideas of Flying. I was thinking I would use one of 2 Reach Polearms, Lucerne Hammer and Horsechopper. I was thinking I would make heavy use of Great Cleave, Shield Bashing adjacent opponents, and using the Pole Arm for Reach. I would also take Shield Slam, gaining free Bull Rushes to push close opponents back to get tenderized by the 'Hammer. I would take Greater Bull Rush to give all my Allies Attacks of Opportunity when I Bull Rushed them. I would take Paired Opportunist, probably via 3 levels in Inquisitor so I would get Attacks of Opportunity, too.
At level 5, Phalanx Soldiers get Ready Pike, which lets you Brace a Pole Arm as an Immediate Action. I was trying to think of some way to finesse opponents into Charging so I could bristle out with that Lucerne Hammer, skewering them for double damage.
But Ready Pike doesn't seem much like a Flying character thing.
No separate concept here, just trying to help out Shiney and thinking about whether you could tack the Phalanx Solider onto something else to fit his/her concept. Sounds like Shiney wants some magic/mystic element to the character, and a straight Phalanx Soldier doesn't offer that without some multiclassing.
I was thinking the same about Ready Pike on a flying character. I think the concept involves a highly mobile character, so the idea isn't to "hold the line" as you might think of for a normal phalanx soldier. So dipping out after three levels seems like a reasonable way to go to get the reach polearm + shield thing, and then Shiney could add something else to get the magicky stuff.
As far as the class itself, that's something I'm still thinking on. I've been prejudiced in the past with the idea that pure martials just have a hard time competing, but I do want most of my actions to be around being able to maneuver and attack in creative ways. To that end, I was thinking some version of the vigilante could work, but I wasn't ready to rule out thinks like bloodrager or magus, (Though that would hamper the reach idea, as I'm not aware of any one handers except possibly the whip.)
My main goal here was a flying character to reduce the weakness of martial mobility in traditional fighty types, but I certainly wouldn't mind giving them support to unleash a few devastating attacks or self buffs to fill the role I originally imagined, I.E. The Valkyrie type.
That weakness you refer to is getting a single attack in order to relocate. If they don't move, they get full round attacks, which greatly improves damage output.
The feat Following Step gives a fair amount of movement for the fighty types. It needs Step Up, and is required for Step Up and Strike.
In my opinion, the best flight mobility is Flyby Attack, which requires a fly speed. Not too hard to get, once Fly and others come online. The ground based Spring Attack is similar, but requires Mobility and Dodge. Spring Attack does not provoke AoO from the movement, but Flyby Attack does. However, Flyby allows less movement before attack.
If you are a fighty type, AoOs are not an issue for you. :-)
/cevah
Flyby Attack can be crossed with Felling Smash, if you're looking at going that road.
Instead of the whole polearm thing, you could do a dex-sword build with Amateur Swashbuckler: Dodging Panache, and use Lunge and/or a Swordmaster's Flair to get more reach. With Dodging Panache, you can retreat upwards when attacked.
A flying swordmaster type could cross Crane Style and Stylish Riposte with Dodging Panache, so that they react to being attacked with a colossal AC bonus and a counterattack before flying out of range. Since this is off-turn movement, it works with full attacks or normal standards.
There's also the half-celestial template, that gives you wings,boosted attributes, and some pretty nifty resistances and spell like powers.
Wait for level 11 and then pick the aasimar feat that gives you wings.
Considered that feat for my Aasimar Paladin, but decided to forgo it since she had spells that could give her wings when she needed them. (Then she got an upgrade to being a half-celestial at the end of the campaign which took care of that.)
Improved Eldritch Heritage (Celestial) gives you angelic wings (speed of 60 feet and good maneuverability) for 9 minutes per day from lvl 11 on. Not quite as good as other option, but that's usually enough for ~9 encounters oer day. The flavor is certainly there and it can be picked up by anyone with some charisma.
A dex-based spear build could be a (half-)elf Slayer 1 / Unchained Rogue 3 /Slayer X employing an elven branched spear with dex to attack and damage and Power Attack from the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent (circumventing the STR-requirement)
The Sylph gets their Wings of Air power at 9, which is probably the best option (besides Strix) that isn't bound by class or needing magic.
There are a straight ton of options for a melee character who gets flight from magic, though they seem to always involve 5 levels of a casting class and often have min/level restrictions and annoying activation actions. However, since the OP specified "perhaps with a SLIGHT touch of magical support" at the most, that would take most or all of these options right off the table.
If you want to wield a spear and shield try a small sized long spear. It is a one handed reach weapon for a medium sized pc, minus 2 to attack for size, a d6 damage, and if you use a buckler as a shield you could two hand it for more damage. On your shield hand wear a spiked gauntlet so you threaten at five foot range too.
If you're willing to wait a few levels, going Kineticist with the Air element nets you permanent flight at level 6.
Variant Multiclassing into Wizard with the Air element school gives you at will Levitate at 7th level and at will Fly at 10th level.