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Okay, so, silly question, but I have a few PFS characters that this applies to, and since PFS is a very 'rules as written' sort of group (by necessity), I wanted to get all my ducks in a row.
So if I find a way to replace one stat with another for a skill (such as the lore oracle ability to base knowledge checks on charisma, or pragmatic activator, or wisdom of the flesh) does it become that (stat)-based skill for other effects?
Let's show an example of what I mean.
Let's say I take the trait 'pragmatic activator. Then I want to buy an Ioun stone to increase my check. Do I buy a cracked blue and scarlet sphere (+1 to an intelligence-based skill) or a cracked Pink and Green sphere (+1 to a charisma-based skill.)
I mean, it uses my intelligence, but it is charisma based for just about everyone else, right?
And if you find an answer, could you link to an official statement? Something I can point to and say 'here GM, here is the official ruling?"
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Alternate Ability Score-Based Checks: If I change the key ability score of a skill (or other check), for example, if I change Knowledge from Intelligence to Charisma, is it no-longer an Intelligence-based check? Is it now a Charisma-based check?
Generally yes—at the time of rolling a check, if you substitute the ability score, the check is now based on the new ability score. In the example, at the time of rolling, Knowledge would now be a Charisma-based skill and not an Intelligence-based skill for you, which would affect things like feats, spells, or items that grant bonuses on checks based on their key ability score (like circlet of persuasion). However, if you are adding a second ability modifier to a check, this is not the case. For instance, when adding both Wisdom and Dexterity on initiative checks, initiative is still a Dexterity check, not a Wisdom check. Also, this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills. Classes that receive “all Intelligence-based skills” as class skills, for instance, are the victim of sloppy writing, and furthermore sometimes effects might muddy the water by only changing the ability dependency sometimes and not others, which is why you check the new dependency only for a specific given roll.
You buy the intelligence one.
Alternate Ability Score-Based Checks: If I change the key ability score of a skill (or other check), for example, if I change Knowledge from Intelligence to Charisma, is it no-longer an Intelligence-based check? Is it now a Charisma-based check?
If you swap then when you're making the check it's now the new stat.
So if you're getting a bonus to charisma based checks then it works.
If you getting a bonus to int based checks it does nothing.
If you're getting to select 2 extra int based skills per your swap isn't happening and they are still int based skills.
If you're getting to select 2 extra cha based skills per your swap isn't happening and you can't choose the int skills.
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Here's one I've been thinking about:
I'm thinking of making an Empiricist Investigator with a 1 level Barbarian dip to shore up some of those early level combat weaknesses.
The Empiricist uses INT for Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device, and some Diplomacy checks.
While Raging a Barbarian can't use any CHA, DEX, or INT based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride).
- Does this mean a Barbarian/Empiricist can't use Perception while raging? Or Sense Motive?
(My take on this one is that you can use those skills, but they revert back to being Wisdom based while raging. I don't know if that's covered by the rules though)
On another note, Armour Check Penalties apply to any DEX or STR based skills.
- Would the Empiricist ignore that penalty when using Disable Device?