Air Kineticist build, 1 lvl melee class dip?


Advice


Our group is playing GiantSlayer and i am currently playing a sniper slayer.... while the build is working good, i find im in situations where i need to be in melee..... I liking the way i am playing this char but planning a backup cause we get beat up... alot. First thouhgt was a natural att bloodrager but i dont like how close to the giants i need to be....

So im planning a Air kineticist, but i need to plan for some melee survivability. I want to take a 1 lvl dip into a melee full BAB class and want to know some options.
Race wise.... Thinking either a Dwarf...(It is Giantslayer and dwarves get good stuff vs giants. But AIR DWARF????) or possibly human or aasimar.

Ideas, options, opinions?


Point to note, we are 7th lvl as of now so will be coming in at 7th.
I will also be using wings of air, alot, always, but that is limtied in cramped corridors/caves so need the melee factor.


Honestly... that one level dip into a full BAB isn't going to help you too much. Sure, you'll get an extra +1 to attack, but at the cost of slowing down your kinetic blast's damage, as well as losing a wild talent down the line somewhere.

That said... if you really plan to do it, I'd suggest at, well, what level are you starting the character at first off?

Alright, so here's the rub. Even in cramped corridors, there are ways around being in melee with an aerokineticist.

Make sure you take Air's Reach, more than likely a good idea to have Extended Range and Snaking when you can, which is 7th level if you double down on Air, though Magnetic Infusion might be better. Take Point-Blank Shot so you can get Precise Shot and just fire over the shoulders of your friends.

In the event you do get into melee... well, best bet would be a weapon even kineticists can use, that or take Kinetic Blade and either take the AoO or try to cast defensively to avoid it.

That said, range is the game on an aerokineticist.


Now, all that said... the most important thing to think about is when to take the dip if you're going to, I'd suggest level 3, when you get your second feat (third if human). Aside from that... I'd suggest swashbuckler (inspired blade), you get Weapon Focus (rapier) for free, Weapon Finesse for free with your rapier, take Fencing Grace at the next available point in time (3rd if you are paying attention), which gives you Dex to attack and damage for your melee weapon, with a decent crit range. Makes you less MAD overall.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xelaaredn wrote:
In the event you do get into melee... well, best bet would be a weapon even kineticists can use, that or take Kinetic Blade and either take the AoO or try to cast defensively to avoid it.

Kinetic blade does not provoke AoOs. It's called out in the talent's description.

And yes, kinetic blade plus weapon finesse is the best way to contribute in melee as a kineticist. If you're coming in at level 7, you can have point-blank shot, precise shot, and weapon finesse regardless of race. You'll also start with infusion specialization sufficient to reduce kinetic blade's burn cost to 0.

You might even consider taking water as your expanded element so you can grab shroud of water with expanded defense.

So stay single-class kineticist, use in-class options to melee.


Incorrect, it states it doesn't provoke additional attacks of opportunity. Using kinetic blast (in melee range) however, does provoke an AoO, whether or not you change the shape of the blast into a blade/hammer/whatever as it is a spell-like ability.

That said, if one were to burn (ba-dum-tish) 2 infusion choices to take kinetic blade and then kinetic whip... That could be used to more or less the same effect, but with range and being allowed to use it for AoO, while also being able to "turn it on" without provoking. (Assuming he isn't in the giant's reach, oh... wait. /sarcasm)


Xelaaredn wrote:
Incorrect, it states it doesn't provoke additional attacks of opportunity. Using kinetic blast (in melee range) however, does provoke an AoO, whether or not you change the shape of the blast into a blade/hammer/whatever as it is a spell-like ability.

What attack of opportunity is that line preventing from happening if not the one from casting a spell-like ability in melee range? Do regular melee attacks provoke now? No, Kinetic Blades don't provoke additional attacks of opportunity than the action triggering them would normally, which is either an attack, charge, or full attack. It's not an action to create them.

The best melee dip for a kineticist is Urban Bloodrager with the feat Expanded Metakinesis: Furious Spell. You get twice you blast level in damage from Furious Spell to counteract your reduced damage from not being full kineticist and you get either more accuracy or more damage or both depending on where you place your stat bonuses while Urban Bloodraging. Plus you get either a 1st level bloodline power (the 1st level of celestial is nice, your melee attacks become good aligned and you deal +1d6 damage to evil creatures) or you can grab a bloodline familiar or you can go Id Rager and get a Skill Focus and a Spiritualist's Phantom's first level emotion power (Dedication is great for this, you get Iron Will for free and get increased to hit if they hit you first).


*sigh*

A regular kinetic blast fired at creature A who is within melee range would provoke 2 AoO, one for using a spell-like ability, and one for using a ranged "weapon" in melee.

Changing the blast into a blade via Kinetic Blade is altering it from a ranged "weapon" to a melee "weapon", thus allowing you to use your kinetic blast in melee range without provoking the second AoO. However, it is still counted as a spell-like ability and thus still provokes the original AoO.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xelaaredn wrote:

*sigh*

A regular kinetic blast fired at creature A who is within melee range would provoke 2 AoO, one for using a spell-like ability, and one for using a ranged "weapon" in melee.

Changing the blast into a blade via Kinetic Blade is altering it from a ranged "weapon" to a melee "weapon", thus allowing you to use your kinetic blast in melee range without provoking the second AoO. However, it is still counted as a spell-like ability and thus still provokes the original AoO.

*also sigh*

You are taking the attack action, not the use spell-like ability action. The attack action does not provoke when used with a melee weapon. We've been over this since the playtest.


The relevant quote by the designer of the class:

Mark Seifter wrote:
Hi everyone. Back now, and I'm now catching up while also working on Unchained. I'm mostly caught up to everything except the main kineticist thread. Just one thing—I was really leaning to have it not provoke with specific language, but I wanted some playtest data to back me up. Then I found out that since it isn't it's own action, it actually automatically doesn't provoke without specific wording. Hooray! So thanks to everyone who provided playtest data supporting that it shouldn't provoke. My gut was right, and despite the lack of a necessity of specific language, I think it's worth adding anyway. For now, you guys can carry on having it not provoke. Expect that to make it into Jason's OP in the kineticist thread some day soon.


And yet he put in the word additional. Just adding that one word completely changes the way the thing works.

If he just put "using this does not provoke attacks of opportunity", I'd be with you, and happy even. But the simple fact remains that that word is there.

In home games, that won't be a problem, hell, I have run it that way for my players as I was around for the playtest and love the class.

But any time anyone takes their book to a PFS game, and the DM looks over the class and reads the abilities, you'll be taking that AoO. I guarantee it.

It's even pointed out in Jason's first post in the discussion that it doesn't provoke. But again, unless you can get your DM to actually go online and look, you'll be taking that AoO every time you use it.

(All I am trying to do is put it out there that if things are taken exactly as written in the book, there will be an AoO. I took the time to explain why, and that's all. Hopefully his DM won't be as strict in RAW as some I've come across. Those arguments were pretty much verbatim that I got from PFS DMs. If nothing else, at least he has links to show his DM in the event this comes up at the table. So for that, thanks.)


Kinetic blade/whip do not provoke AoO.

Quote:
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it’s part of another action (and isn’t an action itself), using this wild talent doesn’t provoke any additional attacks of opportunity.

Melee attacks and melee full attacks don't provoke attacks of opportunity. The movement from charging can but there are no additional provokes. The "any additional" is in reference to outside of what those actions would normally provoke.


For OPs question: normally any dip out of kineticist is in optimal because it delays your infusions, blast progression, etc. But if you really want it then barb or bloodrager + furious spell metakinesis are good options.

However, I'd recommend instead to just use weapon finesse and kinetic blade to handle forced melee combat. It'll make you more than capable when you're forced to melee.


There are several Kineticists abilities that make dipping into another warrior class redundant.

Kinetic Blade does the same damage as your Kinetic Blasts, and uses touch AC on an energy type blast, but also allows full-attack actions without provoking. Kinetic Whip does the same but has greater reach in exchange for higher Burn. Kinetic Fist allows you to make an Unarmed melee Kineticist.

Multiclassing a Kineticist gives you some benefits, but as a multiclass the kineticist works poorly. If you multiclassed into a Full BAB class pretty much the only thing you would get is martial Weapon and maybe some armor proficiencies.


I kmow 1 lvl dip will put me behind for my kineticst abilities, thats why i only thinking of a 1 lvl dip. Biggest reason is for Armor/Weapon profs.... dont matter where we are on the battlefield, the DM likes to hit everyone, especially the ranged and casters. Thats one of the main reasons i was thinking of running a dwarf, the +4 ac vs giants and the no reduction in speed while wearing armor means im moving at full speed while wearing mith full plate or even a breastplate. I know mithral takes it down a catagory (Hvy to Med, Med to Lite) but you still need to have the armor prof to wear said armor even if its mithral... so while a mith full plate counts as med, you still need hvy armor prof to wear it. And a dwarf with martial weapons get war axe and the like....

I plan on being mobile with my flight, but am also looking for the defence when it counts.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly, you're still probably best off just spending a feat on medium armor proficiency, and maybe eventually heavy armor proficiency.


If you're set on doing the dip then I'd suggest going bloodrager 1 and get the elemental bloodline. It fits thematically and 3/day you get +1d6 to your attack. You'll gain fast movement and can rage. Pick up Expanded Metakinesis (Furious Spell) and you can blast/kinetic blade while raging.

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