Space Marine(ish) Builds - Requesting Advice

[silverrey]

So I have been playing with parts of a build that in my head ended feeling like a Space Marine and decided to try and flesh out an actual character. In doing so I ended up with two builds for the same character.

One is flavourful but requires GM approval and feels like it comes online very slow. The second is more universal and still fits the idea but feels like a jumbled up mess.

Any advice on tightening up either build or improving them is greatly appreciated.

Human
25 point buy - STR: 13 DEX: 18(+2) CON: 10 INT: 10 WIS: 14 CHA: 10
20 point buy - STR: 13 DEX: 16(+2) CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 14 CHA: 10
15 point buy - STR: 13 DEX: 16(+2) CON: 10 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 10

Build 1
**Gunslinger - Gun Tank/Bolt Ace**
1. Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot
2.
3. Weapon Focus
4.

5. Empty Quiver Style
**Hellknight**
6.
7. Rapid Shot
8.
9. Stabbing Shot
10.
11. Empty Quiver Flexibility
12.
13. Precise Shot
14.

**Fighter**
15. Deadly Aim, Snap Shot
16. Improved Snap shot
17. Clustered Shots

**Gunslinger - Gun Tank/Bolt Ace**
18.
19. Hammer the Gap
20.

Build 2
**Gunslinger - Gun Tank/Bolt Ace**
1. Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot
2.
3. Weapon Focus
4.
5. Empty Quiver Style

**Fighter**
6. Rapid Shot
7. Stabbing Shot, Empty Quiver Flexibility
8.
9. Precise Shot, Deadly Aim
10.
11. Weapon Specialization, Point Blank Master
12.
13. Greater Weapon Focus, Combat Reflexes
14.
15. Snap Shot, Improved Snap Shot
16.
17. Greater Weapon Specialization, Penetrating Strike
18.
19. Clustered Shots, Hammer the Gap
20.

[supervillan]

What kind of "space marine" flavour are you looking for?

Your builds suggest an armoured ranged fighter, but nothing beyond that.

I would have a look at the Technologist feat and assorted hi-tech archetypes such as Savage Technologist. I don't know much about them myself (I don't have the Technology Guide, which you would really want) but I have seen a very effective technology-based character at work: Brawler 1/ Investigator (empiricist) 10, with a lot of Tech feats and equipment I think.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Powered Armor wrote:

Technological Artifact

Slot armor

Type Heavy; Weight 50 lbs.; AC +10; Max Dex +4; Penalty -2; Spell Failure 60%; Speed (30 ft.) see text; Speed (20 ft.) see text; Capacity 100; Usage see text

Powered armor represents the pinnacle of personal armor—a suit crafted of multiple skymetals and other materials designed to augment the wearer in numerous ways. The armor actually boosts land speed when worn, granting a +10 foot enhancement bonus to the wearer's speed. While worn, powered armor also grants a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity. Powered armor protects against energy and the environment as if it were a spacesuit. Powered armor has hardness 20 and 300 hit points. Powered armor is fitted with numerous small booster jets that grant the wearer a fly speed of 60 feet (with average maneuverability) in areas of no gravity and 20 feet (with poor maneuverability) in gravity.

As a standard action, the wearer may activate the armor's self-repair system. The armor consumes a single charge and repairs 2d6 points of damage. Only 1 charge can be consumed per turn for this effect.

In addition, the following technological wonders are integrated into a suit of powered armor—each of these devices drains power from the suit's charges as appropriate when they are activated and used.

Camera in the helmet.
Commset in the helmet.
Fire extinguisher mounted on the left wrist.
Flashlight mounted on the helmet.
Gloves that can function as grippers.
Laser pistol mounted on the right forearm that leaves the hand free. Firing this laser pistol is always considered an off-hand attack, and the number of times it can be fired cannot be increased by feats like Improved Two Weapon Fighting.
Magboots.
Three medlances. Each medlance can be loaded with a single potion or pharmaceutical; activating an integrated medlance is an immediate action.
Power receiver.
Prismatic force field located on hips; activating this force field is a swift action.
Radiation detector on the right wrist.
Custom veemods in the visor grant a +10 bonus on Perception checks, low light vision, darkvision up to 120 feet, and all-around vision.

Rumors persist of variant forms of powered armor, including suits sized for giants or that can function as vehicles for multiple creatures.

And Techslinger, to use grit instead of batteries.

Techslinger wrote:

Techslingers spurn unreliable gunpowder weapons in favor of high-tech armaments. They learn to master the quirks of timeworn technology and methods of keeping weapons charged in a primitive world. Techslingers still start play with the black powder blunderbuss, pistol, or rifle granted by the gunsmith class ability, but they gain specialized powers for use after they gain weapons of advanced technology. A techslinger has the following class features.

Deeds: Techslingers have access to all gunslinger deeds, except as noted below for new deeds that replace standard gunslinger deeds.

Covet Charge (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point to use 1 charge fewer than normal when firing a technological weapon (minimum 0), as long as the weapon has enough charges remaining to be fired at least once. This deed replaces deadeye.

Reliable (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point as a free action to prevent a timeworn firearm from glitching. This deed replaces quick clear.

Charge Recycling (Ex): At 11th level, by spending 1 grit point, a techslinger can grant 1 temporary charge to a technological firearm, even if the firearm normally can no longer be recharged. This charge must be used within 1 hour or it fades. The techslinger can grant temporary charges to multiple firearms as long as she has enough grit, but temporary charges do not stack with themselves in the same firearm. At 15th level, the techslinger can grant 2 temporary charges when she uses this deed, and at 19th level, she can grant 3 temporary charges. This deed replaces expert loading.

Heavy Weaponry Deeds (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the techslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can treat a heavy weapon as a firearm for the purpose of using deeds.

Bonus Feats: A techslinger can select Technologist as a bonus feat, even though it's neither a combat nor a grit feat.

Technic Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a techslinger can select one specific type of advanced technology firearm (such as a laser pistol, mindrender, stun gun, or zero rifle). Thereafter, she gains a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when using that firearm. Furthermore, she treats all detrimental glitches of timeworn versions of her selected firearm as a result of no glitch. (She can retain the effects of beneficial glitches if she wishes.)

Every 4 levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the techslinger selects another type of advanced technology firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well. This ability replaces gun training.

Covet Charge works with Signature Deed too, I think, for infinite free laser blasting.

All the crunch is up on the PRD. Here's a link (can't find a good main page).

[silverrey]

supervillan wrote:

What kind of "space marine" flavour are you looking for?

Mostly heavily armored with minimal restriction, range, and able to at least hold its own in melee.

I was trying to keep it able to fit into most games/APs with minimal need for the GM to have to question if something should be allowed. Which is the main reason why I went with Bolt Ace (and the idea of a "Bolter" made me chuckle).

*Edit* If it helps this is the thought line that lead up to this character.

Does Armor Training balance out the loss of Nimble?
How high can I get the Max Dex on heavy armor? (Where the Hellknight came in)
How can I make a ranged character stand up to a Bearded Devil in an area setting?

This ended in the mental image of a Hellknight Order standing in line firing crossbows at a hoard of demons. Smashing any that got to close with the butt of the weapon, and then going back to clearing out the hoard. Anyone that has seen the Space Marine artwork can probably tell how I made the connection.

[Abraham spalding]

I used alchemist with a level in gun tank for a techmarine. Extra arm for the sevro arms, and the straffing bomb for a meltagun, and the cone discovery for the flamer. The fast healing abilities cause space marine and infusion to be a bit of an apothecary.

One of his servo arms was a prototype with a storm shield attached (read tower shield).

[Burnscar]

You can get it pretty high.

If you start with Celestial Plate, that's +6 dex right there, before you even start adding your fighter and other stuff on top of it.

Your first build is BAGTGS 5/HK 9/F 3/GS +3.

That gets up to +9 dex in mithral Hellknight plate. Celestial Plate Armor isn't hellknight plate though, so unless the GM is feeling really nice, you only have +9 dex in Celestial Plate Armor.

The second build BAGTGS 5/F 15 would get +8 in mithral fullplate, or +11 in Celestial Plate Armor. Now we're talking.

That's 32 dex, which is pretty much the cap for that anyway. 18 base, +2 race, +6 enhancement, +5 levelup, +5 tome is 36 dex, admittedly, but well, you can't have everything.

[silverrey]

Burnscar wrote:

You can get it pretty high.

If you start with Celestial Plate, that's +6 dex right there, before you even start adding your fighter and other stuff on top of it.

Your first build is BAGTGS 5/HK 9/F 3/GS +3.

That gets up to +9 dex in mithral Hellknight plate. Celestial Plate Armor isn't hellknight plate though, so unless the GM is feeling really nice, you only have +9 dex in Celestial Plate Armor.

The second build BAGTGS 5/F 15 would get +8 in mithral fullplate, or +11 in Celestial Plate Armor. Now we're talking.

That's 32 dex, which is pretty much the cap for that anyway. 18 base, +2 race, +6 enhancement, +5 levelup, +5 tome is 36 dex, admittedly, but well, you can't have everything.

lol Yeah. I actually had a thread on that earlier. If you add Swift Iron Style (I dropped it for this build in exchange for Empty Quiver) it adds another +1. It gets pretty ridiculous. Especially if you can get the GM to let you add 500 to the price of the Celestial Plate to cover the difference between Hellknight and Full plate. If so it tops out at +13 which would cover the 36 dex.

I don't think I need quite that much Dex for this build which is why I toned it down a bit and tried to make it survive better.

*Edit (again)* To elaborate a on a known weak point of the first build: I know that most of how slow it is comes from pushing to grab Empty Quiver by level 5. It pushes the whole build back 4+ levels and is the heart of my issue with it, but I can't think of a way to drop it. To become a Hellknight you need to go toe to toe with a Bearded Devil, in front of a Hellknight, likely while in a marked out ring... As a level 5 Gunslinger (any kind) that is nearly the worse case scenario.

Empty Quiver doesn't do much for the issue but it seems to help make the chances of winning slim instead of nil.