Raging Kinetic Whip Build


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Here is a sample Kinetic Whip build (level 8) I wanted to share:

Gloom
Dwarf Barbarian (Unchained) 1 / Chaokineticist 7
CN Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 90 ft , Perception +7

Defense
----------
AC 30, touch 17, flat-footed 25 (+8 armor, +2 deflection, +5 dex, +1 natural, +4 shield)
hp 86
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +3; +2 vs poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training, fortification 5%; Resist negative energy 2

Offense
----------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee
Kinetic Whip [Gravity, Power Attack, Rage](10ft reach) +11 (4d6+14) or
Kinetic Whip [Negative Energy, Rage](10ft reach) +13 Touch (4d6+4) or
Kinetic Whip [Void, Power Attack, Rage, 2 Burn](10ft reach) +11 (8d6+18)
*All Melee blasts get +1 attack for every point of burn currently had to a maximum of +2
Ranged
Kinetic Blast [Gravity, Extend Range, Empower](120ft) +11 (4d6+8 x1.5)
Kinetic Blast [Negative Energy, Pulling](30ft) +11 Touch (4d6+2, Drag +10 CMB for 10ft)
Kinetic Blast [Void, Extend, Empower, 2 Burn](120ft) +11 (8d6+12 x1.5)
*All ranged attacks with Kinetic Blast get +1 Attack and +2 damage for every point of burn currently had to a maximum of +2/+4
Special Attacks rage (8 rounds/day), hatred, kinetic blast, metakinesis (empower)
Kineticist Wild Talents Known
Defense — emptiness
Infusions — extended range, kinetic blade, kinetic whip, pulling infusion
Blasts — gravity blast (4d6+8), negative blast (4d6+2 negative energy), void blast (8d6+12)
Utility — basic chaokinesis, eyes of the void, gravity control, no breath

Statistics
----------
Str 14, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 5
Base Atk +6; CMB +8; CMD 25 (29 vs. bull rush, 29 vs. trip)
Feats Extra Rage, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes
Traits armor expert, indomitable faith
Skills Acrobatics +15, Appraise +0 (+2 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones), Climb +12, Escape Artist +15, Knowledge (nature) +4, Perception +7 (+9 to notice unusual stonework), Stealth +8, Survival +4, Swim +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ basic chaokinesis, burn (2 points/round, max 7), elemental overflow +2, emptiness, expanded element (void), fast movement, gather power, infusion specialization 1, internal buffer 1, no breath
Other Gear +2 mithral breastplate, +2 heavy steel shield, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +2, muleback cords, ring of protection +2

Thoughts
----------
The build is melee with switch hitting potential. All attack stats in the stat block above assume you are using a move action to reduce the total burn cost by 1. If you do not have the move action to use, you can use Kinetic Blade instead of Kinetic Whip for your melee attacks, and take off Metakinesis(Empower) or Extended Range for your ranged attacks.

The Kinetic Whip is the bread and butter of this build. It has a 10ft reach and can be used in close quarters unlike a normal whip. It lasts until the beginning of your next turn, which means it can be used to make attacks of opportunity against all opponents within 10ft, and with Combat Reflexes, you can make 6 AoO per round. For a point of burn, the Pulling Infusion allows you to pull enemies 5 ft towards you with your whip so that they cannot withdraw. You can target normal AC with Gravity for extra damage, or you can target touch AC with Negative Energy if you are having trouble hitting for a reduction in damage. Spending 2 burn, you can channel Void through your whip to deal massive damage. For an additional point of burn, all your attacks can be empowered to deal 150% normal damage. If you choose to use the Kinetic Blade with any of your attacks instead, you can reduce all burn costs by 1 for the sacrifice of reach and AoO.

Ranged attacks are pretty good as well, giving you more options to use your Empower for free to get extra damage. Extended Range is especially useful in attacking at further ranges. 1 downside to the build when it comes to range is that it does not have Precise Shot, meaning you will take a -4 penalty if you shoot into melee. However, if you use a Negative Energy Blast, the attack is against touch AC anyway, so it is not as bad. Pulling Infusion is best used with the Negative Energy blast on ranged attacks, as it allows you to easily hit when within 20 ft, giving you a chance to pull a creature 10ft towards you and into melee range for your kinetic whip.

As a mainly melee build, the dwarf is using medium armor and a heavy shield to help boost his AC to 30. With ranks in acrobatics, you can always fight defensively to boost this to 33 if need be. Due to Slow and Steady, the dwarf does not take a penalty to movement, and the 1 level of barbarian gives him an extra 10ft of movement for a total of 30ft movement.

The Emptiness defense gives the build a natural %chance to avoid sneak attacks and critical hits, which stacks with the bonus from Elemental Overflow. So assuming you accept 2 points of burn at the start of the day to activate Emptiness, and an additional point of burn sometime later on when using your abilities, you will have a total of 30% chance to negate sneak attack and critical hits (15% from Emptiness + 15% from Elemental Overflow). Also, Gravity Control gives you the ability to fly and No Breath makes it so that you no longer have to breathe. Need to dive into the super long tunnel of water? Need to survive in the vacuum of space? No problem.

All in all I am really liking the build and thought I would share it with you guys. I welcome feedback and any suggestions on how you think I can make the build better. Otherwise, enjoy!

Scarab Sages

Your first problem - Medium armor is going to have a max dex bonus that doesn't play well with your Weapon Finesse based build. Eventually you can afford a Mithral Breastplate, but as you are going to want to pump your Dex further with items and Elemental Overflow, you may want to wait and save up for Darkleaf Studded Leather or something even lighter.

You also aren't going to be raging for very long, even if you get Berserker of the Society for some extra rounds. I'd prefer to go with Archeologist Bard for the level dip, using Fate's Favored and Lingering Song to keep your luck bonus going. The spells and skill points don't hurt either.

Other than that, you will probably want to keep 3 burn going for Emptiness, so you can use the +2 size bonus from Elemental Overflow to two physical stats to make your Dex and Con even higher.

Are you starting at level 9? Otherwise those early levels are going to be rough for this. Definitely get something like amor spikes so you can make AoOs while you are using Kinetic Blade until Kinetic Whip comes online.


Only question I have is why the 14 in Strength? I get the 13 to be able to get Power Attack, but why waste those extra two points you could put into your Wisdom for Will saves. That's the main area where your build is severely lacking... Granted, having the Sturdy racial trait will definitely help there. Perhaps you should swap out Muleback Cords for a Cloak of Resistance.

Also you should take note that you cannot Gather Power/Supercharge while holding your shield. You must have both hands free to do that.

Scarab Sages

Belabras wrote:

Your first problem - Medium armor is going to have a max dex bonus that doesn't play well with your Weapon Finesse based build. Eventually you can afford a Mithral Breastplate, but as you are going to want to pump your Dex further with items and Elemental Overflow, you may want to wait and save up for Darkleaf Studded Leather or something even lighter.

This isn't a problem. The Max Dex bonus on armor only applies to the bonus to AC. Attack rolls, initative, and reflex saves are not reduced.

Quote:
Maximum Dex Bonus: This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Dexterity bonuses in excess of this number are reduced to this number for the purposes of determining the wearer's AC. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer's ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn't affect any other Dexterity-related abilities.

Liberty's Edge

Belabras wrote:

Your first problem - Medium armor is going to have a max dex bonus that doesn't play well with your Weapon Finesse based build. Eventually you can afford a Mithral Breastplate, but as you are going to want to pump your Dex further with items and Elemental Overflow, you may want to wait and save up for Darkleaf Studded Leather or something even lighter.

You also aren't going to be raging for very long, even if you get Berserker of the Society for some extra rounds. I'd prefer to go with Archeologist Bard for the level dip, using Fate's Favored and Lingering Song to keep your luck bonus going. The spells and skill points don't hurt either.

Other than that, you will probably want to keep 3 burn going for Emptiness, so you can use the +2 size bonus from Elemental Overflow to two physical stats to make your Dex and Con even higher.

Are you starting at level 9? Otherwise those early levels are going to be rough for this. Definitely get something like amor spikes so you can make AoOs while you are using Kinetic Blade until Kinetic Whip comes online.

I would be using the build with Pathfinder Society, which really caps out at level 12 anyway.

I don't think the medium armor is a problem, because the additional stat bonuses are only temporary IF i have that much burn, and I am already pumping dex with my belt. I am really missing out on 1 AC from Dex pretty much by going medium over light, but even with a lighter armor I would lose the armor's bonus anyway, so in the end i'm not really gaining anything with that switch (+8 armor + 5 dex = +7 armor +6 dex). Other stat boosts are generally temporary anyway (like cat's grace, reduce person, etc), so when they were not active I would lose the dex bonus and have a lower AC then I do now. I prefer the constant stability to AC then having to rely on other items to constantly boost myself. Plus i like the flavor of a "heavier armored dwarf kineticist"

I did some examples of the build at lower levels and it isn't too bad. Level 6 is where the base damage dice starts to exceed normal weapons at 3d6 and before that, it is 2d6 by level 4. With the level of barbarian, I can also use other 1 handed and/or two handed weapons if need be in a pinch and/or don't feel like using kinetic blade.

The Extra Rage feat gives me an additional 6 rounds of rage per day for a total of 14 rounds, which isn't too bad. But yes, like most resources it is limited.

I will definitely have to check out Bard and see how it lines up, but I do like the flavor of a 1 handed and shield rager. I'll build it and give it a try though!


The biggest flaw? I'm not seeing any way for you to rage and cast your SLA. So this build kinda really falls apart there.

There's the new feat that lets you apply the furious metamagic feat to your blast. And maybe bloodragers with madmagic feat.

Liberty's Edge

Faelyn wrote:

Only question I have is why the 14 in Strength? I get the 13 to be able to get Power Attack, but why waste those extra two points you could put into your Wisdom for Will saves. That's the main area where your build is severely lacking... Granted, having the Sturdy racial trait will definitely help there. Perhaps you should swap out Muleback Cords for a Cloak of Resistance.

Also you should take note that you cannot Gather Power/Supercharge while holding your shield. You must have both hands free to do that.

I had the base STR score at 13. My first bonus went into DEX to make it even. At level 8 I put my bonus into STR to make it even as well, since the rest of my stats were already even and the point would be wasted wherever else it went.

I realize I could take Pirhana Strike over Power Attack for a couple extra points to spend elsewhere, but I prefer Power attack for the option of using a normal two-handed weapon in a bind, an option which definitely also helps at low levels.

Starting stats level 1 (including racial bonus) are 13, 17, 18, 10, 10, 5

And wow, thank you for pointing out the Gather Power issue for me, I can't believe I overlooked that. I will have to look into an alternative to account for it.

Scarab Sages

Just use a buckler instead. -1 AC but doesn't use a hand.


for gather power use a buckler, it should work fine for gather power while wearing it.

Liberty's Edge

Chess Pwn wrote:

The biggest flaw? I'm not seeing any way for you to rage and cast your SLA. So this build kinda really falls apart there.

There's the new feat that lets you apply the furious metamagic feat to your blast. And maybe bloodragers with madmagic feat.

Another good point. I will have to take Expanded Metakinesis to fix this.


Buckler will fix you shield issue. Raging spell will be nice to attack while raging but it will keep to to single attacks to GP or accept 1 burn to full attack once you get your iterative attacks. So I would save getting your barb level until you can qualify for raging spell.

Liberty's Edge

Texas Snyper wrote:
Buckler will fix you shield issue. Raging spell will be nice to attack while raging but it will keep to to single attacks to GP or accept 1 burn to full attack once you get your iterative attacks. So I would save getting your barb level until you can qualify for raging spell.

Kineticist doesn't get iterative attacks with blasts anyway. But I would take my barbarian level at 6 instead to account for the fact that i need Expanded Metakinesis to rage and blast. Otherwise I'll have to just not rage until level 6 if I do it the other way and use the Barbarian level at 1 to get bonuses low level. I'll have to test out the low level builds to see which is better fit. But otherwise it doesn't change the above build too much except you have to use an additional burn to cast it the way i wrote it, or replace Furious Spell with another Wild Talent i included to cast for free (like extended range, empower, or pulling infusion). Using a kinetic blade instead of whip will also allow you to do it for free as well while raging.


Thatcher Iliff wrote:
Faelyn wrote:

Only question I have is why the 14 in Strength? I get the 13 to be able to get Power Attack, but why waste those extra two points you could put into your Wisdom for Will saves. That's the main area where your build is severely lacking... Granted, having the Sturdy racial trait will definitely help there. Perhaps you should swap out Muleback Cords for a Cloak of Resistance.

Also you should take note that you cannot Gather Power/Supercharge while holding your shield. You must have both hands free to do that.

I had the base STR score at 13. My first bonus went into DEX to make it even. At level 8 I put my bonus into STR to make it even as well, since the rest of my stats were already even and the point would be wasted wherever else it went.

I realize I could take Pirhana Strike over Power Attack for a couple extra points to spend elsewhere, but I prefer Power attack for the option of using a normal two-handed weapon in a bind, an option which definitely also helps at low levels.

Starting stats level 1 (including racial bonus) are 13, 17, 18, 10, 10, 5

And wow, thank you for pointing out the Gather Power issue for me, I can't believe I overlooked that. I will have to look into an alternative to account for it.

Makes sense! I was thinking you tossed a 14 into Str at creation and winced! Yes, buckler will definitely take care of that issue! Glad I was able to help. The build looks pretty cool.


@thatcher: I mean iteratives for using kinetic blade/whip. When you are +6/+1 you can attack twice but not while raging unless you accept a burn. Or you GP+raging spell and get one attack burn free.

Liberty's Edge

Texas Snyper wrote:
@thatcher: I mean iteratives for using kinetic blade/whip. When you are +6/+1 you can attack twice but not while raging unless you accept a burn. Or you GP+raging spell and get one attack burn free.

I'm not sure I follow you. The Kinetic blade/whip is still a SLA and considered a blast (a blast modified by an infusion), so it doesn't get iterative attacks at all. The build above has BAB +6.


Kinetic Blade/Whip does get iterative attacks. It's written in the ability...

Kinetic Blade wrote:
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade.

If you couldn't make iterative attacks with those abilities, there would be absolutely no need to include the Full-attack action. Also, notice that attacks is plural, not singular. Hopefully that clears that up for you, Thatcher.

Liberty's Edge

Faelyn wrote:

Kinetic Blade/Whip does get iterative attacks. It's written in the ability...

Kinetic Blade wrote:
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade.
If you couldn't make iterative attacks with those abilities, there would be absolutely no need to include the Full-attack action. Also, notice that attacks is plural, not singular. Hopefully that clears that up for you, Thatcher.

Interesting...that sort of makes the build more broken...I must have glossed over the "full attack action" part when I was reading. I don't see any other reason to include that if you couldn't make more than one attack. Makes sense to me.


Thatcher Iliff wrote:
Faelyn wrote:

Kinetic Blade/Whip does get iterative attacks. It's written in the ability...

Kinetic Blade wrote:
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade.
If you couldn't make iterative attacks with those abilities, there would be absolutely no need to include the Full-attack action. Also, notice that attacks is plural, not singular. Hopefully that clears that up for you, Thatcher.
Interesting...that sort of makes the build more broken...I must have glossed over the "full attack action" part when I was reading. I don't see any other reason to include that if you couldn't make more than one attack. Makes sense to me.

Exactly! Empowered Negative Kinetic Blade Blast could be very devastating. You lose the little bit of extra damage from Elemental Overflow, but that's an acceptable loss for extra attacks.


So your burn free attack options are (assuming whip for AoO):

No rage - base blast x2 attacks + AoO
No rage - empower blast x1 attack + AoO
No rage - furious spell x1 attack + AoO
Rage - furious spell x1 attack + AoO

Using gather power to mitigate the metakinesises. Once a day you can use internal buffer to either double up on metakinesises or get 2 attacks with 1 metakinesis. Those are your burn free options. You can accept burn to nova harder.

Scarab Sages

That's even assuming you are able to gather power while raging. Some gms may consider gather power to require concentration, especially as you have to make concentration checks to not overload the burn if you take damage while gathering.

Sovereign Court

The flavor is great, but the roll to attack is abysmal for a melee build even with burn imo.


Avenger wrote:
The flavor is great, but the roll to attack is abysmal for a melee build even with burn imo.

With elemental overflow it's better than rogues before you account for their TWF penalty. And that's if it's a physical blast. If you have an elemental blast then you're hitting touch AC with 3/4 BAB.

@imbicatus: you can argue that GP while raging is okay but any forced concentration checks are automatically failed.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Raging Kinetic Whip Build All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion