Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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I have had the chance to sleep on my thoughts and wish to apologize for my "over the top" and "self-righteous" manner that I approached my topic.
To all I have offended, I give my sincere apology.
Of course I don't want to see a large number of GMs kicked out. I want to see PFS continue to grow and offer the enjoyment that it has in the past well into the future.
There is a problem with how chronicles are being completed. I believe that problem needs to be addressed because if most GMs are not following the process than process should be changed.
My hope is that this topic will highlight what is in the guide for filling out chronicles and that the steps will be follow given the individual circumstance that each adventure has (IE time at the end and stores closing).
I stand by my petition. I don't like that most GMs don't follow the guide but I am not the "Guide Police" and don't have a right challenge anyone in the manner I have. All I can do is to follow the Guide to the best of my abilities.
And to Mitch, thank you for attempting to clarify my position and I apology for my poor joke. You are an awesome GM and a great person and to even jokingly imply otherwise was wrong of me.
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Part of the problem (to my view) is that we have a couple of half-assed not-very-good systems.
* We have the chronicle sheets which are supposed to keep your gold and PP up to date.
* We have the ITS which *could* be a one-stop shopping place to keep track of all your accounting, but which isn't, and as such becomes just one more annoying piece of paperwork. Given that purchases under 25gp aren't recorded, that PP expenditures aren't recorded, that income isn't recorded, and that non-purchase expenditures aren't recorded, the ITS while useful for players who actually like to keep track of stuff, doesn't serve a real accounting purpose.
* We have older chronicle sheets (pre-season 5, or perhaps 6, I forget which) that have lines for sales and purchases suggesting that they still need to be there, even though they don't.
On top of this, add the problems that are inimical to organized play:
* People sometimes want to browse sourcebooks and think about what they want to purchase after a scenario. This is usually impractical. Many time scenarios end with minutes to spare (or negative time to spare) in the slot, and people are in a rush to get out for one reason or another. Even if they don't, I know myself I sometimes spend well more than 10 or 15 minutes thinking about what I want to buy. So, buying stuff at the end is impractical. The answer given is that you should buy it at the beginning of the next scenario and get the next GM to sign off on it for the next sheet. Well, great, if you want to do the additional ad-hoc paperwork of keeping notes on what you're going to buy. And, if you don't have the bad luck of running into a GM running an early-season scenario who says "Nope, you were woken up in the middle of the night and the scenario starts in situ, you can't buy anything". This gets worse if the stuff you bought might change your character sheet more than adding a single line to your inventory; should people be rushing to do that as a scenario is starting?
(Aside: in early days, back before I'd played a lot and had only read the guide, I did once come to a table at PaizoCon with a list of what I wanted to buy, and the GM looked at me funny; why was I bothering him with this? The thing is: he had a point. The Guide as written is dumb.)
* Many PFS scenarios end with not a lot of time to do the paperwork, and as Wei Ji points out, it takes time even if you aren't doing it right. I can usually get the "sign and toss" part of the paperwork done in 10 minutes, but even with that players are often sitting there anxious, bored with what's going on at the end. People come to the table to play roleplaying games, not to sit around and do paperwork. The Guide as written right now, if really followed, would end up with PFS scenarios being 20-25% paperwork. The GM would spend time at the beginning doing a full audit, and at the end there'd probably be nearly an hour of accounting and auditing and keeping stuff up to date.
What I would suggest
I do believe that keeping good records is important. I just don't agree that the way PFS nominally implements it right now does anywhere near a good job of that. The systems are a mess, and overbearing enough that the vast majority of people don't follow them. Probably most (as in more than half, not as in much more than half!) players do it more or less right anyway, but really the nominal systems in practice give us no encouragement or accountability to do that. Serious changes are in order.
Here's what I'd propose.
- Remove all gold accounting from the chronicle sheets. Make this abundantly clear by including in the Guide a replacement right column of the chronicle sheet for all previous chronicle sheets. Just have accounting for xp, a box for PP gained, a box for PP spent during the scenario (not including 2PP purchases or vanity purhcases, which can happen between), a box for gp gained, and a box for gp spent during the scenario (not including between-scenario purchsaes). Having the accounting in two different places (which we sort of do now, between the ITS and the chronicle sheets) is complicated and messy and asking for errors. (I know -- I went back and audited all of my non-Core characters, and found dumb little mistakes (transposition errors, that kind of thing) on nearly all of them. And I'm one who's particularly anal about keeping things up to date.)
- Replace the ITS with a full accounting sheet. Redesign it to be more like a check register. I can provide an example if anybody wants one. Here is where all accounting happens. PP added and subtracted, gp added and subtracted, all of it goes here. In principle, somebody could sit down with this one sheet of paper and go through it and make sure that everything is up to date. (Perhaps also have the chronicle sheets to verify the accuracy of incoming gold and PP.) The ITS right now is so incomplete that it's not a real accounting tool, it's just a bigger place to do what the "inventory" part of the character sheet already does.
- Tell GMs at the beginning that at the very least they must verify that a player has an ITS that is up to date to the current scenario. If they don't have it, they must pregen. This will take a minute per player at maximum. Get the VOs to set the tone and culture of the game so that this happens. I'm talking a quick glance here -- "you have an ITS with about the right number of pages that has a recent chronicle sheet number on it? Good!"
- Encourage, but don't require, GMs to pay more attention to ITSes at the beginning of the game. There's one local player, for instance, that I would pay very close attention to.
- Also encourage GMs at the beginning of the scenario to verify that players have their most recent chronicle sheet, or, better, all of them.
- Tell players that they must have an up-to-date ITS, or they will not be allowed to play their character any more than if they didn't have their character sheet.
- Warn players that if their ITS isn't correct and they don't have their chronicle sheets, the GM is not only within her rights, but encouraged, not to let them play their character.
- At the end of the scenario, all the GM has to do is fill out and sign the chronicle sheets with the stuff that the GM knows -- earned gold, day job, earned XP, earned PP. Strongy encourage the GMs to get from the players the spent gp and spent PP during the scenario, so that can be filled out to. At that point, the GM is done, and can sign it and hand it off just like the vast majority of GMs do right now.
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So, I'm an accountant. I enjoy paperwork. I do my income taxes by hand because I think that is "fun". I don't use Herolab or any other program to generate my characters because I really like to get into the details of how everything hangs together. My chronicles and characters all organized, and I use the ITS religiously (and really like the way it lets me keep track of my stuff).
I tend not to enforce paperwork requirements on my players because I know what feels right to me is over-the-top, as is what the guide requires, so I don't have a good feel for what is reasonable.
IMO, rknop is 100% correct as to a better, *more streamlined* record-keeping system. We should do that.
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Disclaimer: I didn't read the whole thread so I've no idea what the "current" conversation is.
In my ~140 sessions, I've never had a single GM follow the process outlined in the guide.
edit: I just read rknopp's suggestion above. For my characters I basically do most of this already. I track ALL purchases on my ITS (PP purchases, items less than 25g, condition removal, etc). In the margin I keep a running total of what I've spent up to that point. I do not mark any gold spent on my chronicles. So as long as my running total on my ITS is less than my gold earned on my chronicles, I know I've got gold to spare.
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I've always assumed the way it was laid out was for newer GMs as ... well, a guide. Much like the order in which you generate a character, I would never declare a PC illegal because a player decided on their class and alignment before their race and age, despite the steps laid out in what is now Appendix 1 of the Guide or would I argue with a GM that asked me to fill out paperwork I've done for pretty much every GM I've had in PFS. It's one thing to say "I do it differently" it's another thing to say "you're doing it wrong, you should be kicked out of the campaign".
There's a huge difference in non-conformity and cheating.
Also: Earl's solution seems good.
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Sometimes the later chronicles aren't even helpful to show what is going on with PC money.
As an example, take a look at my level 10 monk's latest adventure:
On chronicle 29, he had a final gold total of 13842.
After that chronicle was filled out, feather step slippers and jingasa of the fortunate soldier were changed, causing me to take the refund.
Now during his latest adventure the following happened:
At the start of the adventure I gave back the changed items and got back 7000 gp.
13842 + 7000 = 20842
I bought an 18000 gp ring and 1050 gp in scrolls.
20842 - 19050 = 1792
I earned 6165 gp from the adventure and 75 gp from my day job.
1792 + 6240 = 8032
I then upgraded by cloak from +2 to +3 and replaced used scrolls for 350 gp
8032 - 5350 = 2682
But I can't fill out my latest chronicle with all that.
So I have to total up the refunds and purchases before and after the adventure and put it under gold spent.
-7000 + 19050 + 5350 = 17400
So my chronicle shows:
13842 starting gp
+6165 gp gained
+75 day job
-17400 gold spent
=2682 total
which in no way reflect what I actually did.
The early chronicles were better with this having a spot for items sold, items bought, and gold spent.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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Locally here in Minnesota PP purchases are tracked on the ITS. I have told regular players that should know better that if certain things are not on their ITS it's not with them.
I actually like the ITS. And with new players, I have spent time with them showing them how to tally their chronicle sheets to keep a running track of gold, prestige and other important information. I just don't want to do the paperwork* that I see as a player's responsibility for them unless it's an extreme case.
Hmm
*Besides, given my game math skills... You really don't want me tallying stuff on your chronicle sheets!
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There is a problem with how chronicles are being completed. I believe that problem needs to be addressed because if most GMs are not following the process than process should be changed.
This problem can be fixed by both Venture Officers and GMs alike caring about the campaign. Having roughly 290 GM table credits at this time, I assure you that this isn't hard to do at all. I started doing it once I learned people do it this way at an Omaha Con and it's been easy to do ever since.
My hope is that this topic will highlight what is in the guide for filling out chronicles and that the steps will be follow given the individual circumstance that each adventure has (IE time at the end and stores closing).
In most cases, you will know if you're pressed for time. One thing that I've done that helps is pre-filling out sections of the chronicle sheet, mainly the event name, number, and I initial the portions such as XP, PA, and GP, but don't fill in the amounts, and I don't sign or give my number at the bottom until they've filled their part out. Sometimes I'll fill out the other numbers during the final encounter if it's apparent how the game will end, but it usually doesn't make any difference if I do it then or after the game.
I stand by my petition. I don't like that most GMs don't follow the guide but I am not the "Guide Police" and don't have a right challenge anyone in the manner I have. All I can do is to follow the Guide to the best of my abilities.
I assure you that this gets easier as you GM more. I was in the twin cities one time at a con. I filled out chronicle sheets like I always do, as stated above, and refused to sign any that weren't completely filled out. 2 players were upset as they wanted to grab food/get ready for the next slot, and I was the first out of a handful of GMs they'd had ever ask for them to fill out their stuff. It really got me concerned as I didn't ask, nor felt a reason to up to that point, to see anybody else's chronicle sheets, and that it was very easily possible that they were spending more than they had. Anyway, I casually informed them on how to fill out chronicle sheets and moved on. It's quite possible, though I don't hold them to this, that I get a negative label and that they never want to play at my table again. And you know what? I'm okay with that. I want players who follow the rules, and there's a lot of those players out there.
The sooner you do it correctly, the easier it gets. One of my peeps once GM'd, or almost GM'd, for a player at a high level interactive, and found before the game started that the player didn't bring any of his chronicle sheets. The GM politely asked that player to either play another character or grab a pregen off the HQ table. The player was upset that this was the first GM out of like, 10 or 15 levels of play with that character, that made him follow the rules. I'm not sure if the player actually played at that table, but his friends at that table informed the GM that the player has known about those rules for some time. This would have been a much easier conversation if the rules had been enforced much sooner on the player.
...Part of the problem (to my view) is that we have a couple of half-assed not-very-good systems.
* People sometimes want to browse sourcebooks and think about what they want to purchase after a scenario. This is usually impractical. Many time scenarios end with minutes to spare (or negative time to spare) in the slot, and people are in a rush to get out for one reason or another. Even if they don't, I know myself I sometimes spend well more than 10 or 15 minutes thinking about what I want to buy. So, buying stuff at the end is impractical. The answer given is that you should buy it at the beginning of the next scenario and get the next GM to sign off on it for the next sheet. Well, great, if you want to do the additional ad-hoc paperwork of keeping notes on what you're going to buy. And, if you don't have the bad luck of running into a GM running an early-season scenario who says "Nope, you were woken up in the middle of the night and the scenario starts in situ, you can't buy anything". This gets worse if the stuff you bought might change your character sheet more than adding a single line to your inventory; should people be rushing to do that as a scenario is starting?...
There is a misunderstanding on how tracking is done on chronicle sheets, I've noticed it online at almost every table I've ever GM'd online, as well as at conventions outside my area.
The gold and other rewards you receive at the end of a scenario reflect what you have from the end of the previous game until the end of this one. Anything you wish to purchase from then on goes to the next chronicle sheet.
So, for example, say I have a character sitting around with 650 GP. At the start of the game, before we even went to the Venture Captain for a mission briefing (barring a few exceptions noted in, I think maybe 2-3 scenarios ever), I picked up some armor costing 25 GP. That armor goes on this chronicle sheet. Let's say that I earn 500 GP at the end of this scenario, putting my total to 1075 GP, and I'm like, "Cool! I can now purchase a +1 Cloak of Resistance"! I write on my ITS that I'm buying it on the next chronicle sheet. It does not appear until the start of the next game. I can write that in anytime before playing my next game, giving me plenty of time (usually) to look over what I want to buy. Again, I don't really need to fill any of that out until the start of the next game, but I do need to have my totals from the last game filled out when I finish that game.
When starting a game, if I'm GM'ing for players that I don't normally GM for, I usually try to ask for the player's most recent chronicle sheet, if they have one. I can learn a lot from that chronicle sheet, such as if they're filling out their information correctly, if they have an abundance of gold and are looking for suggestions to spend it on, if they're saving up for that really cool magic item, where they're coming from (in game wise), and much more. If they haven't been filling out their sheets, well, you have roughly 4 hours to fill this information out before receiving the chronicle sheet from my table. If something looks seriously wrong, like if I don't think they've been filling out any of their totals and maybe have overspent their gold (had another peep GM online for someone like that once, was 5K overspent), I'll either ask them to fix it immediately, making as few of changes as possible, or ask they play a different character or pregen. It's a case by case situation, but in all cases I want them making as few of changes as possible.
In conclusion, what you're doing by following the rules correctly as a GM, is making it easier for the next GM that has that player. You're giving that player a better time knowing they won't walk into a convention and be told they can't play their character. What you're doing by not following the rules is making it more difficult for the next GM that puts up with that player, potentially have a player drive to and pay for a con to be told they're character isn't legal to play, and setting unacceptable expectations about our campaign. Please don't do that.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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In conclusion, what you're doing by following the rules correctly as a GM, is making it easier for the next GM that has that player. You're giving that player a better time knowing they won't walk into a convention and be told they can't play their character. What you're doing by not following the rules is making it more difficult for the next GM that puts up with that player, potentially have a player drive to and pay for a con to be told they're character isn't legal to play, and setting unacceptable expectations about our campaign. Please don't do that.
Boy how I wish I could have said it this way in the very beginning.
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Except I've rarely had GMs bother to take the time to look over a PC or their chronicles before the game starts. That's never a luxury afforded at conventions where people are often showing up right at the start of the slot.
I suppose I could do it with pbp games, but honestly, I'm too lazy to care.
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Locally here in Minnesota PP purchases are tracked on the ITS. I have told regular players that should know better that if certain things are not on their ITS it's not with them.
Considering I've yet to fill out an ITS, that's not entirely true.
I cannot stand them - a perfectly good system of writing your purchases on your chronicles was replaced with mundane paperwork. I still write my purchases on my chrons, the way the gods intended.
In conclusion, what you're doing by following the rules correctly as a GM, is making it easier for the next GM that has that player.You are not. There is absolutely no way you can tell who filled out the chronicle sheet in which order as the DM.
If you are making sure that the player is following the rules, including filling out all of their chronicle sheets, then you are, in fact, making it easier for the next GM who has that player. If you let anything slide, then it's possibly something the next GM may need to correct.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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Add me to the chorus of people that would like simpler accounting on the chronicles and ITS.
In addition, I do not think it is a good idea to follow the Season 8 procedure as written because of spoilers.
Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask them to fill out the sections marked A–G, J, K, and P (Character Chronicle #, Advancement Track, Player Name, Starting XP, Initial Fame, Initial Prestige, Starting GP, etc.). When they’re done entering this information from their past Chronicle sheets, have them return the documents to you.
You are handing the chronicle sheet to the player before the mission briefing and having them fill things in. While they have it, there is absolutely nothing preventing them from reading the boons.
There are several scenarios where reading the chronicle sheet provides spoilers about the adventure. There are also adventures where reading the chronicle sheet ahead of time may cause people to want to run a different character.
I think it is a bad idea to hand out the chronicles ahead of time and not expect people to read anything other than the sections they are supposed to fill out.
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you are making sure that the player is following the rules, including filling out all of their chronicle sheets, then you are, in fact, making it easier for the next GM who has that player. If you let anything slide, then it's possibly something the next GM may need to correct.
The grarg here is over following the guide as it's written, which is far from the only way to get completed chronicle sheets. You're trying to equate the two and they are FAR from the same thing.
@Jason Rosuar, I am curious what you think of rknop's suggestion.
I think this entire thread is about a thing that isn't broke and doesn't need to be fixed. I don't think any change needs to be done. I think that if myself and the people I know, all who have been filling out hundreds, if not thousands of chronicle sheets over the course of several hundred tables each, can do it correctly, then the system as it currently is written is a working system.
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Except I've rarely had GMs bother to take the time to look over a PC or their chronicles before the game starts. That's never a luxury afforded at conventions where people are often showing up right at the start of the slot.
I suppose I could do it with pbp games, but honestly, I'm too lazy to care.
I specifically asked my GMs at Gen Con and pre-Gen-Con-Scotty's if they wanted to look over my character prior and they basically said "No, I trust you." I didn't expect them to because no one ever has (about ~140 games at this point). Obviously the rules as they appear in the guide don't work because no one (except for a couple people in this thread apparently) follow them.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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80 games played at the end of Season 3, skipped season 4 and 5. Over 170 games played right now. I go to Origins, DragonCon, and GenCon every year. I go to PaizoCon every couple years and 6-8 small cons in KY, OH, WV, TN and other nearby states.
Exactly 2 of my sheets were filled out the "guide way".
Exactly one audit has been performed, with my sheets not organized in chronological order and my "in chronological order" ITS contained all my +/- gp/pp math.
I'll admit I'm unusual, I recently spent 17 hours reviewing and auditing my own sheets. I do this perodically. I like thinks to be precisely correct.
The take away. There may be places where this part of the guide is followed, but it certainly isn't commonly followed at GenCon, DragonCon, Origins, PaizoCon, or any number of smaller cons wishing 7 hours of central Kentucky. No today. Not in 2009. Not in every season except 4 and 5 (when I took a PFS break so I have no data.)
What to be done? Change the guide or accept its going to be ignored by statistically more than 99% of GM. I think that's a safe bet, as I'm not the only one in this thread quoting numbers in this order of magnitude. I support Earl's suggestion.
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You guys are the outliers, though. Yes, we've heard about the one lodge where everybody does it right. Nowhere else does it happen. 99℅ of the players, GMs, and VOs don't bother with the requirement that all accounting and chronicle sheet filling is to be done during the session on the presence of the GM. So, clearly, compliance with this is a problem; you've found a way not to make it too onerous, but almost nobody else has. The problem does exist. Solutions are either before heading everybody into following the current system- which I guarantee won't work- or creating a system that preserves accountability while closely matching what people do now.
Notice that PFS has continued to thrive for years without everybody spending the time you want them to spend at the table following the book. Clearly it's not needed. Starting to really require it would put a huge damper on most PFS tables.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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...GenCon, DragonCon, Origins, PaizoCon, or any number of smaller cons wishing 7 hours of central Kentucky...Join us at Who's Yer Con next year (i.e. hoosier con (indiana))!
Pretty sure I've been once. I think it's been landing on the same day as Grand Prix Magic events that I tend to work in the fall and spring.
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This problem can be fixed by both Venture Officers and GMs alike caring about the campaign.
By the way -- this slipped by.
Your implication is that "if they don't require full accounting as described in the Guide, they don't care about the campaign."
I challenge you to directly make this statement on the private VO boards, and see what kind of response you get from the other VOs.
I'll be that the vast majority of them, like I as a GM, will not react well to being told that we clearly don't care about the campaign because we're not doing the accounting exactly the way the Guide tells us to.
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This problem can be fixed by both Venture Officers and GMs alike caring about the campaign.By the way -- this slipped by.
Your implication is that "if they don't require full accounting as described in the Guide, they don't care about the campaign."
I challenge you to directly make this statement on the private VO boards, and see what kind of response you get from the other VOs.
I'll be that the vast majority of them, like I as a GM, will not react well to being told that we clearly don't care about the campaign because we're not doing the accounting exactly the way the Guide tells us to.
It's insinuations like that (and there's been a lot of them) that make me regret having an even number of toes on my paw so I can't give the proper response.
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As a side note, I once was one of the GMs who required all the paperwork to be filled out as specified in the Guide before I'd sign the chronicle sheet. This was partly because I was starting my own mini-lodge, running games with students (and some other faculty) at the small college in BC that I taught at previously, and so didn't have a standard practice to fall back on. But, I also played some PbP and VTT games, and even there I required it.
Then I got to PaizoCon 2013, and realized that I was being very odd. I had several GMs, including at least one VO, none of whom did any of that; they all filled out the GM sections and handed signed chronicle sheets. It was a revelation to me, and I'll tell you, it was a relief. It was especially a relief at subsequent tables I GMed, as I didn't have lots of players sitting around at the end waiting for all of the accounting to happen. (They still sit around waiting for chronicle sheets, but it's far more efficient than it was back when I had to do it all right.)
The system as written is especially cumbersome for online games, where just handing the chronicle sheets back and forth and two different people writing on them isn't so trivial. For PbP games, I'd give them all a blank sheet and have them tell me the numbers to put in all the boxes, and I'd have everybody post what they wanted in each box. For VTT games, I would do that in email... and I'm pretty sure there's at least one chronicle sheet from 3 years ago the player never got because he never responded to the post-game email with the additional details needed. It's just too cumbersome. The GM being able to collect the PFS# and day job info and then handing players signed and finished sheets makes online play doable, and so of course that's how we all do it.
The Guide needs to change. The system as it is is not workable, except in the one outlier Omaha lodge. If it doesn't change, that part of it will continue to be ignored.
The Thursday night before PaizoCon 2013, I ran a session of Silent Tide for seven players. We finished about midnight, so people wanted to get out of there. I tried to make people do the full fill-out thing, but they balked, and I gave in and just handed out signed sheets. A couple of people told me that they hadn't done any previous sheets because nobody told them they even needed to fill them out at all, never mind before the GM signed it, so they would have had to go back and do all of their accounting before they could even do this sheet. I know some will use this as a reason to say that GMs really need to require players to fill things out before they sign it, but I disagree. Rather, I use this as evidence that the current system is too cumbersome, and the fact that it isn't followed lets things like this happen, where people don't even do their own accounting. A system that wasn't so cumbersome that 99% of the players didn't bother with it might actually be a system that a substantial faction of the player base would follow, and we'd have fewer cases of players who had done no accounting at all.
There is ground between "just ignore it" and "do it fully anal the way the rules say right now". I made my proposal above.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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This problem can be fixed by both Venture Officers and GMs alike caring about the campaign.By the way -- this slipped by.
Your implication is that "if they don't require full accounting as described in the Guide, they don't care about the campaign.
Can we all agree that everyone posting here cares passionately about the campaign, or else they wouldn't bother posting in this particular discussion? Let's not point fingers here. We all want what's best for PFS and our players.
Hmm
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I agree that the Guide should be changed to reflect what's actually happening at tables. Which, as others have pointed out, is that 99% of GMs fill out the "GM only" portion of the chronicle and hand it to players, and the players take it home to deal with the rest of it. Let's take out the extra stuff from the Guide that doesn't actually happen in the vast majority of places.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask them to fill out the sections marked A–G, J, K, and P (Character Chronicle #, Advancement Track, Player Name, Starting XP, Initial Fame, Initial Prestige, Starting GP, etc.). When they’re done entering this information from their past Chronicle sheets, have them return the documents to you.You are handing the chronicle sheet to the player before the mission briefing and having them fill things in. While they have it, there is absolutely nothing preventing them from reading the boons.
Actually this is not the case BretI. There is the first sentence of that section.
Following is a 10-step walkthrough of how to fill out a Chronicle sheet at the end of a scenario.
So there is no risk of spoilers.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask them to fill out the sections marked A–G, J, K, and P (Character Chronicle #, Advancement Track, Player Name, Starting XP, Initial Fame, Initial Prestige, Starting GP, etc.). When they’re done entering this information from their past Chronicle sheets, have them return the documents to you.You are handing the chronicle sheet to the player before the mission briefing and having them fill things in. While they have it, there is absolutely nothing preventing them from reading the boons.Actually this is not the case BretI. There is the first sentence of that section.
Following is a 10-step walkthrough of how to fill out a Chronicle sheet at the end of a scenario.So there is no risk of spoilers.
Thanks for the correction!
This does mean that it takes even longer to get all the paperwork done if we consider it a requirement to not even start until after the scenario. I've been filling out sections of the chronicles during the break we normally take about half-way through a scenario.
It also doesn't work very well if we are supposed to note any conditions gained, even when immediately resolved, on the chronicles. Tough to note it on the chronicle if it hasn't been assigned to an individual yet.
I am still in favor of changing the procedure to streamline it.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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Thanks for the correction!
Welcome. Others seem to have a similar thought so I wanted to point it out.
Tough to note it on the chronicle if it hasn't been assigned to an individual yet.
... the GM should pass around a sign-in sheet to record your character's name, Pathfinder Society Number, level, and faction.
So what character the player is using is already known. Now I know that this is very loosely followed. I really don't care what character they use until the end anyways. If they play a real character, not pregen, then yea, that is the character.
But with the clarification added this year that playing a pregen has real consequences for the real character, it is important to understand what character is getting credit at the beginning.
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I've been involved with pfs for close to 5 years, I've even been to paizocon twice. So i know it isn't just GM's "in my area". I've never seen a chronicle sheet filled out as you describe.
GM fills out the relevant portions that require their signature, hand it to the players and expect them to do the bookkeeping.
What's the problem? I know when I GM I have better things to do with my time then what you describe.
Now to discuss players "cheating" which I believe is the intent behind the rules you are quoting: If i think a player is playing beyond their ability or own items beyond their fame I ask them questions and audit them if i feel it is appropriate. Otherwise I should trust the players and respect the fact that they should be presumed honest. I know that is how I want to be treated when i play.
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So, in our Lodge, GM's largely follow the Guide procedure, thanks in part to reminders from our VO core that it's the rules and it's our job to follow the rules. So it's not impossible - we run hundreds of tables a year doing it, in game days and cons. YMMV, but helps a lot when it's an expectation and not an option.
*Why* the rules are as they as is a perfectly valid question, as is whether different rules would be better. But a navy friend of mine had a saying: "The Captain's not always right, but she's always the Captain."
The Captain of the PFS ship developed the Guide, and they're the rules. Individual GMs don't get to decide if they follow them or not. At the same time, if the rules are particularly egregious to lots of people, maybe they need another look.