Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Permanent Spells that carry over: Carry Companion


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

1 to 50 of 93 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Any arguments against allowing the Carry Companion spell to be a permanent effect that will carry over from scenario to scenario? See page 21 of the Season 8 guide.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka The Great Rinaldo!

I'm not sure what you are asking. Carry Companion is not on the list of effects that can carry over, so it does not. What "arguments against allowing" are you looking for?

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I think he wants it added to the list.

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Ya, I'd like it added to the list. The logic being: If there isn't a good reason to keep it off the list, it should be on the list.

***

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I believe he wants to advocate for Carry Companion being added to the list of spells that can carry over.

I'm not sure an animal would want to stay in statue form for long periods of time.

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

BretI wrote:

I believe he wants to advocate for Carry Companion being added to the list of spells that can carry over.

I'm not sure an animal would want to stay in statue form for long periods of time.

The spell says the statue is mindless and inert, so I assume the animal doesn't suffer oppressive boredom. But as with all such matters, I'm anticipating the resident animal welfare ombudsman will have meaningful comment.

Shadow Lodge **

BretI wrote:
I'm not sure an animal would want to stay in statue form for long periods of time.

Considering that the animal is "mindless and inert" while under the spell, I'm not sure they'd notice, let alone care...

EDIT: Ninja'd...

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yes, I believe Flutter may have something to say about this.....

***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Even an animal is going to notice going from the entrance to a fancy dinner party at night to suddenly being thrust into combat on a snow covered plain at mid-day.

Especially if they aren't given a treat and told what a good critter they are!

Sovereign Court **

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BretI wrote:

Even an animal is going to notice going from the entrance to a fancy dinner party at night to suddenly being thrust into combat on a snow covered plain at mid-day.

Especially if they aren't given a treat and told what a good critter they are!

Yes, my pocket bison will appear moody and angry! This is perfect for my plans!

*****

Flutter will be along shortly to poke you with a pointy stick.

Make sure not to tell her that my inquisitor recently sent his snake AC to the boot leather factory when he was replaced by a new Roc

I mean, he went to live on a farm and eat sheep and get fat.

Scarab Sages **

andreww wrote:

Flutter will be along shortly to poke you with a pointy stick.

Make sure not to tell her that my inquisitor recently sent his snake AC to the boot leather factory when he was replaced by a new Roc

I mean, he went to live on a farm and eat sheep and get fat.

This is my will. Holds up fancy legal document it s-s-says if I get s-s-so dead that the Sapphire Sage can not raise me, that Billy the Battle Goat will be cared for with my money...

Billy the battle goat was the intimidating / bullrush joke build that my druid picked up after two consecutive animal companion deaths (because hey, if they are going to die anyhow may as well have some fun). For some reason Billy survived until retirement, decided to get a replacement before bonekeep 2 (Tom the Cat that came into Bonekeep 2 died.)

Liberty's Edge ***

I don't see any significantly useful mechanical benefit to allowing this to have scenario carry over and it adds another spell to the list on p.21 that already has 4 too many spells in it.


DM Livgin wrote:
Any arguments against allowing the Carry Companion spell to be a permanent effect that will carry over from scenario to scenario? See page 21 of the Season 8 guide.

Yes... there isn't a good reason to add this spell to the list. It sounds like a very wonky thing to do RP wise.

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

EricMcG wrote:
I don't see any significantly useful mechanical benefit to allowing this to have scenario carry over and it adds another spell to the list on p.21 that already has 4 too many spells in it.

There is not a burden of proof to show a mechanical benefit, there are many legal bad options in PFS.

I under understand that you are against permanent spells as a whole, with no specific objections to this one?

Grand Lodge *

I can't see anything exploitable by it. It's already supposed to last indefinitely.

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
DM Livgin wrote:
Any arguments against allowing the Carry Companion spell to be a permanent effect that will carry over from scenario to scenario? See page 21 of the Season 8 guide.
Yes... there isn't a good reason to add this spell to the list. It sounds like a very wonky thing to do RP wise.

I'm at a complete loss for a good reason to use secret page (a spell who's permanent effects carry across the scenarios), but the PFS philosophy seems to call Paizo material fair game unless it is disruptive or unbalancing. The default being to include material, regardless of good reasons.

Wonky may be wonky, but I've met agents that worked as wedding planners between missions and have received missions from men in bathtubs. Wonky does not seem like a legitimate criteria to ban material in a fantasy role-playing game.

****

DM Livgin wrote:

Wonky may be wonky, but I've met agents that worked as wedding planners between missions and have received missions from men in bathtubs. Wonky does not seem like a legitimate criteria to ban material in a fantasy role-playing game.

Carry Companion isn't banned, it just doesn't persist after a scenario. It can also function fine without needing to persist. Generally only spells and effects that need to persist to be useful are allowed to persist.

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
DM Livgin wrote:

Wonky may be wonky, but I've met agents that worked as wedding planners between missions and have received missions from men in bathtubs. Wonky does not seem like a legitimate criteria to ban material in a fantasy role-playing game.

Carry Companion isn't banned, it just doesn't persist after a scenario. It can also function fine without needing to persist. Generally only spells and effects that need to persist to be useful are allowed to persist.

Thanks Jeffery, I mean the banning of the spell being persistent.

If the logic is that spells that are mostly useful as is wont be added to the persistent list, so be it. (I'm not giving up this crusade, only conceding a valid point.)

** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Now that we have some robust anti-menagerie rules I wanted to give this a bump.

This is a great flavorful spells, and one of the cheaper ways to magically transport animals. It also is a way to transport mundane mounts that are not animal companions, a familiars, or mounts as required by the hosteling armor and shield enchantment.

I have a character that is using this spell to be a 'ready for anything' pathfinder, he has a giant bat that he gets this spell cast on at the beginning of every scenario. It would be nice if the spell persisted between scenarios and to avoid paying for the casting every time. (he has yet to actually ride the bat).

This spell previously could be abused if it was persisting, by having a backpack full of yaks or tigers to pull out on demand. Now with the limit on animals (which are selected at the start of the scenario) this is not possible. If there is a concern of using this to pull our a tiger for everyone in the group, the same limitation of only one casting remains active could be implemented, similar to the continuous flame and masterwork transformation spells.

Shadow Lodge *****

Keep the list short. You can just recast this.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would also prefer to keep the list short, it is already longer than strictly necessary.

Not primarily to stop Ward Davis from what is he is trying to do, but to prevent the abuse I can't think of right now.

Liberty's Edge *

I believe Carry Companion is just a Secret Chest for animals and animal companions and should be allowed to carry over from one adventure to the next.

Shadow Lodge *****

Ward Davis wrote:
Ya, I'd like it added to the list. The logic being: If there isn't a good reason to keep it off the list, it should be on the list.

Keeping track of active spells from game to game is a pain for the DM. So the logic is if there isn't a very good reason for the spell to be on there, it shouldn't be there.

Is there a very good reason for the spell to be there?

Is it normally a permanent effect that would invalidate the spell if it couldn't carry over?

- Secret chest. continual flame. masterwork transformation all functionally don't work if they go poof.

Liberty's Edge *

It does not seem too much a pain to say "My boar, named Runt, is under the effects of an Carry Companion spell."

Shadow Lodge *****

Gary Bush wrote:
It does not seem too much a pain to say "My boar, named Runt, is under the effects of an Carry Companion spell."

... that was cast by X, last scenario, at caster level Y and written on the chronicle sheet. That's the pain.

If you want to use the spell (and i highly recommend it, it's an amazing spell for critters), buy a toilet paper roll of scrolls. Someone in the party should be able to cast it, or this is one of those spells thats still really useful if you pay to get it cast at the lodge and then use it in the field.

***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Edmonton aka Artoo

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Is it normally a permanent effect that would invalidate the spell if it couldn't carry over?

- Secret chest. continual flame. masterwork transformation all functionally don't work if they go poof.

I can't say I follow your reasoning here. How does the "You can just recast it" reasoning not also apply to Secret Chest, Continual Flame, and Masterwork Transformation?

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paul Holtom wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Is it normally a permanent effect that would invalidate the spell if it couldn't carry over?

- Secret chest. continual flame. masterwork transformation all functionally don't work if they go poof.

I can't say I follow your reasoning here. How does the "You can just recast it" reasoning not also apply to Secret Chest, Continual Flame, and Masterwork Transformation?

1) Continual flame costs you 50 gp per cast. Masterwork transformation costs you 50, 150, or 300 gp per cast.

2) all of these spells are fire and forget. You need to keep track of them being cast ONCE and you're probably good for your career. They only need to be kept track of by a dm once. Carry companion is something you're going to have to recast every session.

Scarab Sages ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

To rephrase BNW’s 2nd point, all of the spells on the list are cast once and never expended. Carry companion is expended whenever you activate it to get your animal back. So if you’re recording it as permanent, you might need to do that as often as every session, if you routinely activate your companion, then carry companion again before the end of the session. It becomes (potentially) an extra bit of paperwork every session, as opposed to once per character with the other spells.

Liberty's Edge *

Well rangers can cast it so not a problem there.

Saves a little on the money side. Guess I could say the day before I got the message to report I cast it.

I do have at least one scroll on me at all times. Don't like to waste a 2nd level spell slot on it. That is for barkskin.

As for masterwork transformation, when you enhance the item you would need to record it again for a new item. So more book keeping.

And for continual flame, GMs love wiping those out.

Liberty's Edge ** Venture-Agent, Online

Personally I don't want to spend a second level known spell slot on my hunter for this. So in that case, without changing the rule, it would mean having to spend 150 gp every adventure just because.

Shadow Lodge *****

How would changing the rule save you any money? you're going to un pokeball your animal companion to use them . You're going to do that every adventure. Whats the difference between getting them pokeballed at the end of session 5 instead of the start of 6 ?

Liberty's Edge ** Venture-Agent, Online

Personally I'm not going to do that every adventure. I'm going to use it to move the companion (a rhinoceros) at times where it isn't feasible to have him move on its own. (For example, I have to get him to the top of a cliff.)

So what if I ended a previous adventure with the companion pokeballed and at the start of the next adventure the scenario briefing makes me want to start with him pokeballed. Without a carryover rule, I have to use two scrolls, with it, only one.

But there is an easy way to change the rule without adding a bunch of spells to the guide:

1. Allow all permanent spells to carry over between adventures.
2. Ban any permanent spell where carrying them over would be considered abusive.

Shadow Lodge *****

You move the rhino to the start of the cliff and then... there's no fight up there that you need to use him for?

I don't want to say that that situation is non existent, but its certainly not common enough to make rules around.

Quote:

1. Allow all permanent spells to carry over between adventures.

2. Ban any permanent spell where carrying them over would be considered abusive.

Which would need to be a separate additional resources entry, or it's own page in the guide saying what's what. All for an absurdly rare circumstance.

Scarab Sages ***

Gary Bush wrote:

As for masterwork transformation, when you enhance the item you would need to record it again for a new item. So more book keeping.

And for continual flame, GMs love wiping those out.

So Masterwork Transformation might happen twice or three times in a career.

I don’t really know why a GM would waste an action on (edit: dispelling) a continual flame unless it was heightened. So it’s only more bookkeeping in the already limited situation of a heightened continual flame when you also have access to someone who can heighten it again.

Both of those are still rare compared to something that potentially needs noted or adjusted every scenario. Though I do think that will be uncommon, since most people actually want to use their animal companion. Carry companion is mostly useful for getting the animal into places that would otherwise be difficult. I’d think it would be much more common to not want them as a figurine than to want them that way.

At any rate, I don’t think it would be campaign breaking to add this Spell to the list. I think ihaving it on the list is limited in usefulness.

Liberty's Edge *

A demon or devil didn't like that I had the continual flame item out with my human monk. It didn't realize that I also had blind-fighting.

In any case, I don't really think a change will be made. It is a pain to have to cast every adventure because using a spell slot is really not worth it when you have limited 2nd level spells. As you note, it really is not campaign breaking.

The only real argument I can make to add it is that it is a spell that is not open to a lot of abuse. It is a money saver for the poor rangers, hunters, and druids. Not to mention the cavilers, paladins, and samurai out there.

Shadow Lodge *****

I do not see how you are saving any money, at all. Unless you for some reason pokeball your critter and then don't wind up taking them out, in which case... why not just leave them at the entrance?

Scarab Sages *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
andreww wrote:

Flutter will be along shortly to poke you with a pointy stick.

Make sure not to tell her that my inquisitor recently sent his snake AC to the boot leather factory when he was replaced by a new Roc

I mean, he went to live on a farm and eat sheep and get fat.

Aqueous orb

Summon nature's ally, anaconda. Summon nature's ally, anaconda. Summon nature's ally, 1d4 anacondas.

Move snakenado towards AndrewW....

Where were we....

Pathfinders on a mission live a life on the edge filled with excitement, danger, and stress. They need their downtime between missions to unwind and live their own lives, to find friends, tend to family's, to love and live at a pace less than constant fighting.

Essentially skipping from one fight right to the other denies non humanoid pathfinders that same right. It leads to a life of constant stress, which tends to be short and miserable. This is a bad thing in any animal, but is an especially bad idea in non humanoid pathfinders with big sharp pointy teeth and a small armies worth of magical enhancements.

*cues music* (scenes of a t rex chasing people through the park while an ankylosaurus tips over a cart turning about in a circle) So please, for the low low price of 50 gold per adventure you can help these animal companions live a rich, balanced life full of belly rubs, chasing tourists through the park, roaming free, and chasing their own tails. ()

(statement meant entirely as a joke. If symptons persist more than 4 sessions contact your life oracle. )

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The other spell that people ask about pre-casting before scenarios is

Spoiler:
explosive runes!

If you can cast Carry Companion before reporting for duty, why not this one? And do we really want to go down that rabbit hole/crater?

Liberty's Edge *

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
If you can cast Carry Companion before reporting for duty, why not this one? And do we really want to go down that rabbit hole/crater?

No so let us have Carry Companion! ;)

I am really OK with how it is now. But it would be nice for a fair amount of characters.

Shadow Lodge *****

Gary Bush wrote:


I am really OK with how it is now. But it would be nice for a fair amount of characters.

It would not. The level of nonense here that you continue to ignore is incredibly frustrating.

In order to save 50 gp (because you can have it cast during your down time) the following things all need to happen.

Adventure 1(at best)

Encounter 1 Flesh
Encounter 2 Flesh
Encounter 3 Flesh
Obstacle
Encounter 4 Stone

Adventure 2

stone
Obstacle
Flesh
Flesh
Flesh

(if there's no obstacle in the second adventure you didn't need him to be stoned)

Why are you acting as if leaving your animal companion out of the boss battle is a standard operating procedure? Your argument here is terribad, to the point that i have to wonder what you're really arguing for.

Liberty's Edge *

I guess I am a different type of player. I don't see my Animal Companion as simple fresh meat to be lead to the slaughter. If I feel my AC cannot help in an encounter, final boss or not, I don't have him stick around. Either tell him to flee or make him a figurine. It is a lot of work to retrain an animal companion after it has died.

The cost of the spell, at least for me, would be 150, which is the cost of the scroll. My character can cast the spell on his own so don't need help there.

If I should happen to have him in stone form at the end of the adventure, there is a possibility to save the cost of the scroll on the next.

I agree, it is small cost savings. I don't see the spell as breaking the campaign or open for abuse.

And I am OK with how it is done now. I just think Carry Companion is a good spell to be added to the short list. One thing against the idea is that the spell comes from a splat book.

If it is not allow, then at least allow it to be cast before the beginning of the adventure. That way the AC can de-stress during offtime. Maybe he can make a day job check sniffing out truffles... But I digress...

I don't mean to be frustrating. I just don't see it as a major problem if the spell was added because the impact is minimal.

Shadow Lodge *****

Gary Bush wrote:
I guess I am a different type of player. I don't see my Animal Companion as simple fresh meat to be lead to the slaughter.

...seriously?

Dude, do yourself a favor and mouse over flutter for a second. (You know, the character that just advocated the right to play time for dinosaurs to sara mclaughlin music and runs a blog on how to keep your animal companion alive, and will chew characters out for hurting oozes and vermin?)

Quote:
If I feel my AC cannot help in an encounter, final boss or not, I don't have him stick around. Either tell him to flee or make him a figurine. It is a lot of work to retrain an animal companion after it has died.

And you can't tell him to wait outside because...?

Quote:
The cost of the spell, at least for me, would be 150, which is the cost of the scroll. My character can cast the spell on his own so don't need help there.

The cost of the rule is 50. This is not an opinion, you are arguing with math.

Under the current rules

Boss fight! ACK stone companion. Spend 150 gp
Stone companion wears off.

cast carry companion in between adventures 50 gp

Boss fight! ACK stone companion. Spend 150 gp
Stone companion wears off.

Being able to carry over

Boss fight! ACK stone companion. Spend 150 gp
Stone companion wears off.

Boss fight! ACK stone companion. Spend 150 gp
Stone companion wears off.

That's it.

Quote:

I don't mean to be frustrating. I just don't see it as a major problem if the spell was added because the impact is minimal.

The impact on the spell is pretty minimal. Thats why it shouldn't be on the list.

The impact on the spell is so circumstantial and using it as you're describing is so weird I can't help but feel like you're trying to obliquely argue for something else, because your argument here falls apart.

Sovereign Court ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
I guess I am a different type of player. I don't see my Animal Companion as simple fresh meat to be lead to the slaughter.

...seriously?

Lolled at this.

*****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
The cost of the rule is 50. This is not an opinion, you are arguing with math.

Not sure where you are getting that from. Its a level 2 spell so its either 300gp for a potion, 150gp for a scroll or 60gp as a spellcasting service.

Shadow Lodge *****

andreww wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The cost of the rule is 50. This is not an opinion, you are arguing with math.
Not sure where you are getting that from. Its a level 2 spell so its either 300gp for a potion, 150gp for a scroll or 60gp as a spellcasting service.

Oops 60. Sorry.

The frequency and timing of what people are allegedly casting carry companion for makes no sense, but having it carry over in between only costs the spellcasting services rate of 60. Not the scroll rates.

*****

Personally I just buy 5 castings on a scroll for 2pp and then forget I have them.

Liberty's Edge *

BNW, I am completely lost by your apparent hostility to my comments.

One last point and then I am done with this discussion.

The impact of continual flame is minimal. Why is it allowed? I was not around for when that decision was made. I can only guess that it was added because it was a useful spell that a lot of people wanted.

Shadow Lodge *****

Gary Bush wrote:
BNW, I am completely lost by your apparent hostility to my comments.

guess I am a different type of player. I don't see my Animal Companion as simple fresh meat to be lead to the slaughter.

You don't think an accusation of munchkiny bad role playing is going to garner just a bit of hostility?

Quote:


The impact of continual flame is minimal. Why is it allowed? I was not around for when that decision was made. I can only guess that it was added because it was a useful spell that a lot of people wanted.

Its a useful spell that people wanted. its impact on the game is functionally to make human martials viable at all. Recasting it costs 50 gp every time. Along with heighten spell, it will roflcopter deeper darkness (which comes up a LOT in older scenarios)

Carry companion is a game changer too: it effectively means you can take your critter anywhere.

.. but continual flame doesn't work unless it can carry over from session to session. Carry companion doesn't need to carry over from session to session. What you're saying is that for inexplicable reasons, you need to have your critter pokeballed for the last fight (you know, the one where you need the most firepower), and then you're going to keep them in statue form and NOT unstatue them the next game because you're saving them for...what? Not the last fight (you stone them up for that) and not the first fight (because you want them to still be stoned for that part)

So you're either arguing that there's this huge mechanical need to have an animal companion go away and come back for fights in the middle of a scenario that can't be met besides animal companion (instead of, i don't know, the stay trick) .....or something else

One is gnome underwear level logic and I don't like the other one much either.

1 to 50 of 93 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild / Permanent Spells that carry over: Carry Companion All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.