Dreams of the Yellow King (GM Reference)


Strange Aeons

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Does the trip into the Dreamlands cause a wealth drop later down the line for the AP? My campaign a few books ahead of this, and I've noticed they are significantly below WBL.


It may help to have them sell the staircase focus or even a trader from the Dreamlands willing to buy some of their wealth off if you're worried.

The AP has a lot of downtime, could that be why the WBL is skewed?


We're just starting book 5, and I double checked the wealth for two of the characters between sessions, and they both have 80~85k worth of equipment at level 13, where WBL states they should have 140k.
They've missed a few things, but not that much. I also remember reading something about how APs are written to have more loot than "normal" because it's assumed they miss/sell stuff.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber

Strange Aeons assumes that each PC receives a +2 inherent bonus to a statistic at the end of book 3, and that this is included in PC wealth. AS a +2 inherent bonus is worth 55K, your PCs are pretty close to standard WBL.


Well my Strange Aeons game ended in book 3,I suspect in part because the party found the Dreamlands section weird. Like they never get any loot that can be taken back to Golarion. I think the PCs have to be self motivated for this AP.

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TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
Does the trip into the Dreamlands cause a wealth drop later down the line for the AP? My campaign a few books ahead of this, and I've noticed they are significantly below WBL.

I packed all the "real" wealth for this level into the real-world encounters, and I also took into account the stat bonus as having value (essentially, pre-buying a manual/tome for each PC). Note that Glower, for example, has quite good loot. There are Leng rubies all over the place, too.


They did their research double quick time (Day 21ish) so they were almost done with all the dream quests even before they got to time they met Glower.


GM Mort wrote:
They did their research double quick time (Day 21ish) so they were almost done with all the dream quests even before they got to time they met Glower.

Sad to hear that. My players are in love with the dream quests and eager embrace their madnesses which are a great opportunity for roleplaying. They like to get loot, but their focus is on the storry


Yeah, I was surprised at how quickly my players crushed the research timing. They've got a good three dream quests left, but it's only day 19 or so - it's fortunate that only one of the real life encounters includes foreshadowing to a dream quest, but if I were to rerun this I'd probably work in some cooldown mechanic on the ritual to space out the dream quests a bit more.

Speaking of, has anyone run into players trying to return to the dream quest locations? So far my PCs haven't failed any (I try not to run my games super deadly, and my dice rolls are traditionally horrendous - plus misfortune has negated a lot of my criticals), but I'm concerned about what to do if, say, they don't manage to collect the heartstone, if Bokrug gets them all before they can snag the Idol, or if they were to try to return to the Bloodwind if they failed to grab the tricorn - I know time moves funny, but I don't necessarily want to be cheap and just say "oh, the words don't work anymore" (because obviously they do - they return to the caravanserai and all later).

Paizo Employee Developer

Isthill wrote:

Yeah, I was surprised at how quickly my players crushed the research timing. They've got a good three dream quests left, but it's only day 19 or so - it's fortunate that only one of the real life encounters includes foreshadowing to a dream quest, but if I were to rerun this I'd probably work in some cooldown mechanic on the ritual to space out the dream quests a bit more.

Speaking of, has anyone run into players trying to return to the dream quest locations? So far my PCs haven't failed any (I try not to run my games super deadly, and my dice rolls are traditionally horrendous - plus misfortune has negated a lot of my criticals), but I'm concerned about what to do if, say, they don't manage to collect the heartstone, if Bokrug gets them all before they can snag the Idol, or if they were to try to return to the Bloodwind if they failed to grab the tricorn - I know time moves funny, but I don't necessarily want to be cheap and just say "oh, the words don't work anymore" (because obviously they do - they return to the caravanserai and all later).

I'd say let the failures stand--they don't need to successfully complete every single dream quest to get the critical information from Abdul Alhazred to move the plot forward.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quote:
Speaking of, has anyone run into players trying to return to the dream quest locations?

My group TPK'd on their first foray to the Carvanserai. They were badly beaten up by the Shopkeep, and then just all got eaten by the Formless Spawn. So, they did return, and then avoided the baths.

One of the characters also died in the middle encounter in the Enchanted Wood. So, the group left the Dreamlands, and returned to do the last part of the hunt. No harm, no foul here, although I suppose I could have done something like relocate the Tigers, and have the group track them down.

My group are also not bothering to research ahead - they only research their next goal, and then go do it.


If they fail the Bokrug section and return, logically Sarnath no longer exists and they port into a stormy lake. DC 20 swim checks all around, and of course with Bokrug in the center, and the idol nowhere to be seen. Or maybe in Bokrug's claws.

I was nice and let them talk to the shopkeeper. He told them to GTFO before he decided it'd be nice for them to keep him company for eternity...


That's definitely a good thought... we left off last session just before Bokrug shows up, so I'll have to keep that in mind. They managed to grab the tricorn from Vadrack just before she killed them all (in my game, Vadrack is one of their children that they sold to slavery in the dreamlands, and Vadrack is more of a Dread Pirate Roberts thing), so they probably wouldn't be eager to return to the Bloodwind. I assume that Quaveandra will have vacated the drug den if they try to return there, too.

My PCs first dreamlands encounter was the shopkeeper, who won initiative and immediately phantasmal killered the magus. Now I make that the opening move of every creature that has the ability to do that, it really terrifies them (though I've ruled that breath of life will stop someone from being shunted out of the dream. Fortunately, the one person who can cast that also has a bunch of other swift and immediate actions they use so it makes it likely that they'll be unable to react to that).

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quote:
Now I make that the opening move of every creature that has the ability to do that, it really terrifies them

You're aware that botching the Dream ritual causes an Animate Dream to appear, right? And that happens in the real world...

My group is thankfully fairly unlikely to do that badly at the ritual (they need 7s on 3 of the rolls, and 8s on two of them, so fairly likely to get at least half of them to succeed).


I am, haha, I would probably be much more forgiving in that scenario... they did actually manage to botch the ritual the first time they tried it, which they had very little to handle it. Incorporeal is really rough if you'e not prepared for it, it seems.

Dark Archive

My group has failed 2 rituals, once when needing a 4 or better and the second when they only needed a 2. Sometimes dice demand blood.


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GM Mort wrote:
Well my Strange Aeons game ended in book 3,I suspect in part because the party found the Dreamlands section weird. Like they never get any loot that can be taken back to Golarion. I think the PCs have to be self motivated for this AP.

100% not because of loot. I liked the dreamlands section myself.

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Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My own group needs 7s to succeed on the skill checks, and have now failed the ritual exactly twice, both times with a particular playing making all of the rolls. He's now banned by the rest from doing so :)

Mind you, with 5 PCs, and them all now level 9, the Animate Dream is no longer the threat it was the first time. The boat also makes for a much smaller environment for the AD.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber
Dasrak wrote:
On the flipside, there's the issue that the party may have no interest in the dream quests at all. This was one of my first concerns when I read Dreams of the Yellow King. The adventure simply presumes the PC's will be self-motivated to research and perform the dreamlands excursion ritual, and on the face of it there's just not that strong of a motivation. The PC's have nothing but the vague notion that there might be some interesting information to glean, but as you point out they already know Lowls' next destination. This can leave the party drastically underleveled for the challenges in store for them in Katheer.

Yep. I'm exactly there right now. The party found the books, learned that they could do a ritual to go to the Dreamlands and find out what Lowls was up to, and gave it a massive, "So what?" because they already know where he's going.

They decided to gamely throw me a bone anyway, knowing full well their chances of success were low (5 Knowledge checks at DC 25 for 7th-level PCs? Yeah, my shaman had the requisite skills maxed out at +14 each, but that's only a 50/50 chance on each roll). So of course they failed the ritual, got attacked by the Animate Dream, and got seriously beaten up since they don't have many magic weapons (Thrushmoor's low purchase limit prevented it) and their casters had prepared for water combats.

Once three of them were cursed and down on Wisdom and they'd finally managed to finish off the Dream, their immediate response was, "Let's never do that again."

So, any issues with letting them get to Cassomir and completely skipping the Dreamlands, then having them learn that the only way to figure out where Lowls went is to try the Dreamlands again?

They want no part of it any more.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Quote:
The party found the books, learned that they could do a ritual to go to the Dreamlands and find out what Lowls was up to, and gave it a massive, "So what?" because they already know where he's going.

The other big push for doing the Dreamlands quests is...the idea that they could trace what happened to their memories, and get them back. I mean, in the end, this is the big payoff for the Dream Quests, not the knowledge about Lowls' destination.

Also...recall there are a couple of scholars on the boat. In a pinch, if the PCs are REALLY that bad, you could use the scholars to assist them, or even lead the ritual, if they are that bad. It is also possible to purchase a masterwork ritual toolkit, to provide a +2 bonus to the checks for a small cash outlay.

As to consequences for skipping? Firstly, they never retrieve their memories. Secondly, you would need to somehow let them know about the Necronomicon and it's location, or else skip the Mysterium as well. Plus, there would be the level issue, unless you fill the gap quite significantly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber
YogoZuno wrote:
Quote:
The party found the books, learned that they could do a ritual to go to the Dreamlands and find out what Lowls was up to, and gave it a massive, "So what?" because they already know where he's going.
The other big push for doing the Dreamlands quests is...the idea that they could trace what happened to their memories, and get them back. I mean, in the end, this is the big payoff for the Dream Quests, not the knowledge about Lowls' destination.

Right, but the problem is, after Books 1 and 2, they don't want their memories back. In Book 1 they got to be incidental heroes, saving everyone in the asylum from a horrific fate. Then in Book 2 they arrived in Thrushmoor and learned that, pre-memory-wipe, they just weren't very nice people. As a result, the players have really embraced the, "I'm no longer that person" path (a common movie and book trope), so they no longer want their memories.

YogoZuno wrote:
Also...recall there are a couple of scholars on the boat. In a pinch, if the PCs are REALLY that bad, you could use the scholars to assist them, or even lead the ritual, if they are that bad. It is also possible to purchase a masterwork ritual toolkit, to provide a +2 bonus to the checks for a small cash outlay.

This is where the suspension of disbelief is really hurting the AP. "Oh, yeah, we're riding your boat and we agreed to help you protect it, but we'll be performing this horrific occult ritual on it that might summon incorporeal extraplanar monsters, m'kay?"

My players were extremely careful to hide in the hold and perform the ritual out of sight of any of their shipmates, so when it went horrifically wrong no one was the wiser (GM fiat of a crew sleeping through it.)
The shaman has a high enough Diplomacy he might be able to convince the crew that the ritual was harmless, but the party doesn't trust the ritual in the first place.

YogoZuno wrote:
As to consequences for skipping? Firstly, they never retrieve their memories. Secondly, you would need to somehow let them know about the Necronomicon and it's location, or else skip the Mysterium as well. Plus, there would be the level issue, unless you fill the gap quite significantly.

Oh, I'll rewrite things to get them into the Dreamlands eventually, but as this is a GM thread, I feel that expressing things that went horrifically wrong is even more important than listing things that went right...

EDIT: For example, Fort Hailcourse in Book 2 is another example where the book provides little motivation for the PCs to go there, but without the level and loot they get from going there, Iris Hill would be nigh-impossible. So as a GM you need to know ahead of time to add extra emphasis to the Fort because the AP doesn't do it for you.

EDIT 2: And "that bad" is a bit of an overstatement. The 7th-level shaman is maxed out on both skills: +7 ranks + 3 class skill + 4 ability score = +14 each, giving him a 50/50 shot of hitting a DC 25 Knowledge check. Having to make 3 out of 5 during the ritual is similarly a 50/50 chance. So for "normal" PCs who didn't think to buy ritual tools in Thrushmoor, half the time they're going to get attacked by an Animate Dream, which is No Fun for 7th-level PCs who were in a town that didn't have the wealth level to sell magic weapons...

I *CAN* make all this work, but I'd rather future GMs running this AP know about it. I asked a friend on the boards how she GM'ed her way through the Dreamlands, and her response was, "Oh, that's when the AP fell apart for me."
So there are a lot of complaints here and there about the Dreamlands if you go searching around in random places on the boards for them. I'd rather come here and post solutions and suggestions so future GMs know what to look out for.

I liked one suggestion to reduce the DC of the ritual to 20 to make it easier for the PCs to achieve. Another is to have the Yellow King (or some facsimile thereof) provide some motivation for them before they go in.
One of my players said, "They could at least provide a McGuffin to get us in there," and I had to respond, "They have one! It's just after you go into the Dreamlands that you find it!"
At which point she rolled her eyes, threw up her hands, and said that the party wasn't going to go into the Dreamlands again until I figured out some motivation for them. I get along well with my players, and I thought it was a totally reasonable request.

So, homework for me, and a warning for future GMs.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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My advice doesn't help you much, since it's too late for you, but...

I would remove the note in Book 2 that tells them that Lowls is headed to Katheer to find the Necronomicon. Instead, they should come out of book 2 knowing only that Lowls is looking for a lost city called Neruzavin, and that he traded away the PCs memories to someone called The Mad Poet to get the information he wanted.

That way the PCs are motivated to dive into the Dreamlands not only to get their memories back, but also to figure out where Lowls is going.

The AP is really written with the expectation that getting their memories back is the PC's primary motivation. If that isn't the case for your players, that's definitely going to futz things up a bit. IMO, even if your players don't want to go back to being the bad people they were before, they should want to know who they were, what they did, and how they got hooked up with Lowls--if only so they can make amends to or avoid the people they've wronged in their past life.

My players were jazzed to get their memories back, because I had them write each other's backstories round-robin style, and then kept them secret until the end of book 3. They were excited not only to learn what their whole deal was, but also to show off the cool backstory they'd come up with for their fellow players.

Also, be sure that your players are getting all the bonuses they're due on their ritual checks.
*Since your primary caster for the ritual is an actual spellcaster over level 5, they get a +2 on the check.
*If they have 4 or more Secondary Casters, they get another +1.
*If they've still got the Chain of Nights from book 1, that should also give them a +2 on those Knowledge (Planes) checks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

My advice doesn't help you much, since it's too late for you, but...

I would remove the note in Book 2 that tells them that Lowls is headed to Katheer to find the Necronomicon. Instead, they should come out of book 2 knowing only that Lowls is looking for a lost city called Neruzavin, and that he traded away the PCs memories to someone called The Mad Poet to get the information he wanted.

That way the PCs are motivated to dive into the Dreamlands not only to get their memories back, but also to figure out where Lowls is going.

I think that's the best advice I've seen so far. "Sorry. You can't get started 'til you've gone to the Dreamlands and figured out where he's going."

I like!

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Also, be sure that your players are getting all the bonuses they're due on their ritual checks.

*Since your primary caster for the ritual is an actual spellcaster over level 5, they get a +2 on the check.
*If they have 4 or more Secondary Casters, they get another +1.
*If they've still got the Chain of Nights from book 1, that should also give them a +2 on those Knowledge (Planes) checks.

Thanks -- I missed those. The +2 to the first (I forget which it is) and the +4 to Knowledge (Planes) skews the stats heavily in their favor.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber

Just as a follow-up, tonight I'm going for the easy fix: The King in Yellow appearing in their dreams and saying something wishy-washy like, "I sensed you tried to approach, but did not pierce the veil. You must, for there is much I can tell you..."

That ought to get them to at least get to the Yellow King, at which point the Dreamlands storyline becomes much stronger.

After reading the rest of the book and realizing that I'd have to start them in Book 4 and then frequently retcon back to 3, it seems delicate ham-handedness is the best approach.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, I'm nearing the end of this book, and now have an even bigger problem...my players are clever and experienced, and are fixated on getting their dream loot back to the real world. They are dreaming up all sorts of ways to smuggle it out, including, but not limited to, killing a party member (and carrying the body to the Dreamlands, and raising him there, giving him all the dream gear, and he then uses a purchased planshift scroll to get out with it all), using a portable hole (since it's a separate extradimensional space), and a couple of even crazier ideas. Clearly, if they do manage this, it will totally mess up their wealth on hand for the rest of the campaign. But, on the other hand, I don't want to just stomp all over their creativity.

Anybody have an alternative suggestion?

Dark Archive

Mine figured out an even more elegant work around, they went to one of the Dreamlands cities and sold the lute to purchase mental stat boosting tomes.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

YogoZuno wrote:

So, I'm nearing the end of this book, and now have an even bigger problem...my players are clever and experienced, and are fixated on getting their dream loot back to the real world. They are dreaming up all sorts of ways to smuggle it out, including, but not limited to, killing a party member (and carrying the body to the Dreamlands, and raising him there, giving him all the dream gear, and he then uses a purchased planshift scroll to get out with it all), using a portable hole (since it's a separate extradimensional space), and a couple of even crazier ideas. Clearly, if they do manage this, it will totally mess up their wealth on hand for the rest of the campaign. But, on the other hand, I don't want to just stomp all over their creativity.

Anybody have an alternative suggestion?

Maybe the stuff they smuggle out is made of dreamstuff, and so empowered by being in the dreamlands. Once they get it back to the real world, they find it is greatly diminished (read: level appropriate gear for book 3).

However, they can sever its connection to the dreamlands, and make it all fully real, with appropriately powerful magic (wish/miracle), allowing you to replace some of the treasures in book 6 with their restored dreamlands gear.

That said, if you did want to stomp on their creativity, I’m not sure either of their plans you mentioned will work.

The gear they bring into the dreamlands isn’t their real gear, it’s dream versions of it—e.g. drinking a potion in the dreamlands doesn’t use up that potion in the real world. So their dreamlands portable hole wouldn’t open into the same extradimensional space as their real world portable hole. It opens into its own space, that just happens to have dream versions of everything the real hole had in it when they performed the ritual.

Similarly, bringing their friend’s corpse across would make a dream copy of the corpse, but it wouldn’t actually be the friend’s corpse, and so might not revive properly. Or worse, they could appear to come back from the dead, but actually become host to some malevolent dream spirit. If you really want to bring the boot down, have the raised ally who came back wrong abscond with all their loot!

For my group, I think I just told them that anything they managed to smuggle back from the dreamlands would simply cease to exist once they woke up.


Davor Firetusk wrote:
Mine figured out an even more elegant work around, they went to one of the Dreamlands cities and sold the lute to purchase mental stat boosting tomes.

That's the way to do it. Nicely done. :)

Dark Archive

Though apparently I could use one of those tomes as well, it should have said loot, not lute.


I'm curious to see what other GMs have done when it comes to character death in the Dreamlands.

If a character dies in the Dreamlands, they immediately awaken with a lesser madness. I'm interpreting this as the character automatically failing their will save. However, some of the madnesses have an onset greater that one day that have to be rolled for.

I admit, I'm conflicted between handwaving the onset time, and having all the madnesses take hold within one day, or rolling as normal, and having the madness take hold gradually. For example, if one of the characters were to be afflicted with fugue (dealing with a whole new party for chapter 3), I would have them forget more and more things leading up to the actual onset time.

In addition, one of my players is a spiritualist. Phantoms return to the ethereal plane when they "die." Could the phantom end up with a madness, or is the fact that they're summoned make them immune to acquiring madnesses due to the Dreamlands?


Did the phantom die, the spiritualist or both?

Phantoms 'feel' like only partially-complete mentalities. Not sure on the mechanics, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are not subject to going insane - they already are a kind of madness. A proactive, callable one ... somewhat similar to an animate dream.


I suppose the question is whether or not the phantom took part in the ritual to visit the Dreamlands. If they did, then I'd say they get a madness for dying in the Dreamlands and waking up. If the spiritualist went through the ritual alone and then called their phantom on the other side, then the phantom alone among the party is really there. In that case I'd treat dying/banishing like the normal rules and not add any extra penalties.

EDIT: I'd do the same for other summoned companions like Eidolons. For animal companions in this circumstance, I'd probably rule that they can't take part in the ritual at all unless they're especially intelligent, so the PC likely has a dream version of them which doesn't affect the real one (being just a figment of the dreamer's imagination).


No one's died yet. I haven't started running Dreams of the Yellow King, but wanted to figure stuff out as early as possible.

What you said about phantoms does make sense though.


Regarding taking loot from the dreamlands, I made a way available, but made it a "hidden quest" of sorts. Here's what I did.

Spoiler:

When they first got lore on the Mad Poet, I made sure to finish the lore with: and to those who please him greatly and quench his eternal thirst, the Mad Poet grants knowledge of how to make dreams real.

I then created 8 "proto-dreamscapes" they could go to. Think of them like demiplanes: generally inaccessible because they weren't full dreamscapes and thus part of the dreamlands, but likewise were too strong and permanent to be stumbled into on the Dimension of Dreams.

I can post more info if people care, but the basic gist of them was that they were all "pending resolution" and when one was "cleared" by the PCs, they could either allow it to become part of the Dreamlands or dissolve back into the Dimension of Dreams.

Some of the proto-dreams were:
The Grave of the Tarrasque (Paladin of Sarenrae in my group liked that one. She got a hit in! And then died for it. But it bought the rest time to kill cultists and get away, so success!)
A mage's tower caught in a groundhog day loop.
The dreams of the Yethzamari when Lamashtu stole the domain of beasts.
Two naval armies locked in a decades long civil war, each side led by a celestial.

So, to reach these proto-dreams, they had to find alternate keywords in Lowls books. My group was hitting check DCs out of the park, so I just told them they were finding alternate keywords in other book combinations. The end result was the discovery that there were three of the eight realms they couldn't reach due to missing a trio of books. One book they found in Caliphas, one they found within the time-looping mages tower, and the last they acquired in Cassomir. This allowed them to find the last set of keywords for the final "true" dreamscape.

Paradise.

Paradise was simple. It was an idyllic countryside. Everything needed to survive or flourish was there or easily craftable (effectively allowing retraining for free, at triple normal time). Traveling to paradise meant being slightly out of phase with your group. All would arrive in paradise, but in their own versions of it, each slightly different. They could hear each other speak as if on the other side of a door, but not interact.

The only commonality was the well. A constantly full well with crystal clear water in it. Water so pure it would degrade quickly in any but the most perfect vessel (go go craft checks!)

But Paradise was a trap. Every day you stayed, you lost the will to leave. DC 15 charisma check to leave, increase by 1 each day. Once you could no longer make the check DC, stuck until you died of old age (and thus wake up back in real world.) The party monk elected to stay behind to craft a vessel, but he got stuck. So he spent the rest of his life crafting a perfect vessel (retraining to max ranks, taking 20 to make masterwork tools, 20 for the vessel, the retrained ranks back.)

The water of Paradise as a final gift to the Mad Poet wins the group a ritual that can be used in the dreamlands when both the real world and the dreamlands moon is full (restricting it to once a month), and allows each participant to manifest a dreamlands object (or creature) in the waking world, at a cost of 1 permanent negative level. Performing the ritual obviously draws the attention of dreamlands natives, so there was always an encounter to go along with it.

Its worked well enough, my party isn't really overgeared, and by the time they can get everything out, its nearly endgame anyway. Biggest thing my party did with the ritual was sell most of the dreamlands gear to buy a staff of healing in Celphais, which has proven smart.

Sczarni

My group has been using maps projected onto a TV laid flat with physical miniatures. Needless to say this has spoiled them.

Has anyone used alternate maps for the dreamscape mini-maps? They're very small compared to the maps we've used so far. There are quite a few dreamscape scenarios and I understand creating 'full' maps for all of them would have been prohibitive in resources and pages.

I would love some suggestions for alternates. Paizo Flipmats or even Map Packs would be good. They have PDF versions I can easily convert to projected maps. Of course any other suggestions would be great.

Thanks!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow, Black Bard, that's an interesting and convoluted add-on! You at least limited what could be manifested, and added a real cost to it. Thanks for sharing!

hmtavares, most of the situations described are in fairly limited environments of one type or another, and they don't really need huge maps. About the only ones I really substituted are the Oukranos (I have the double-sided ship flip mat, and it gets used for just about every naval encounter I ever run), and the hunt for the Wamps (I used the City Streets flipmat for the opening, and I substitued an old D&D4e mapsheet that included a graveyard).

Silver Crusade

Last night, my group was in the midst of their second foray into the Dreamlands, doing Last Night of Sarnath. The barbarian in the party managed to disarm the priest of the idol and grab it, but had trouble waking up the next round, even after voluntarily taking 14d6 damage to his physical body to get a +7 on the concentration check.

Winter's turn came around (I'm playing her) and I ruled that Dismissal would work to wake up the barbarian if he failed his saving throw, which he did, and she saved the day. Winter and the other remaining character were able to easily make their concentration checks the next round and they won the game (the other characters 'died'.)

My question is, does my ruling on Dismissal seem reasonable?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns Subscriber

So, does Dismissal work on a summoned creature in your game?

Because to me, travel in the Dreamlands is far more akin to being summoned to another plane than it is to traveling to the plane: You're a copy of yourself, you don't really die, and you don't get to keep the gear you obtain. It's so much like summoning I'm surprised Magic Circle Against Good doesn't work against PCs in the Dreamlands.

So, there is nothing in the description of Dismissal that says it has to be a called vs. summoned creature, so I think it's up to GM discretion.

After thinking it over, I think I'd rule the same way you did.

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