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Dreams of the Yellow King (GM Reference)


Strange Aeons

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Mal_Luck wrote:

So is the only permanent reward in the Dreamlands the +2 bonus to stats?

That's correct. The Dreamlands is full of phat loot -- vorpal swords lying around, guys falling out of the sky with 100,000 gp worth of stuff. But it's all a dream and you can't take it with you. In metagame terms, it lets the PCs have a session or two of crazy fun playing with stuff that they shouldn't normally get anywhere near until 19th level.

Quote:
I have 3 players in my game instead of 4, to balance the reward for the party should I make the rewarded bonus a +3 instead?

Up to you as DM.

Doug M.


Spastic Puma wrote:

Why does Weiralai kidnap the Yellow King? I suppose it's in her best interest because she wants to stop the players (or possibly enslave them) and help Lowls? But how does she know that the Yellow King is key to their mission? How did she know the players even met him? Or is it just blind luck that she stopped by at the caravanserai and thought the Yellow King was a genuinely interesting oddity to kill/imprison?

I can't remember if this was answered in the book but I've been skimming back and forth and I can't find it.

As it's written, I think it's just a big coincidence and she just wants the Yellow King as leverage against Lowls. I really wish the book made it clear what she wants out of all this. I don't know how you're supposed to play a character without a clear motivation.

My interpretation is that Weiralai and Lowls have likely met at the caravanserai before for business (or he at least mentioned it to her). Since she knows that Lowls and the PCs are connected, so after she learns the PCs are in the Dreamlands (probably from Captain Vadrack) she'd look for them there. The Yellow King would give the whole thing away pretty easily when intimidated/tortured.

I would like to know if Captain Vadrack's Planar Fast Healing works in that dream quest or if he's actually killable. It's pretty close to Leng. I'd also like to know what he hopes to accomplish by attacking the PCs in the Dreamlands. My guess is that he hopes to the Feargaunt's Nightmare Aura to prevent some of them from waking up.

Contributor

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The Imperator wrote:

The AP says that the NPC that Bindlay is hunting got to the Dimension of Dreams with the Plane Shift spell, but Occult Adventures says that that is not possible:

Occult Adventures wrote:
Regular methods of planar travel like plane shift do not offer transit to the dream world—only specialized means such as the dream travel spell do the trick.
How did these two people, Bindlay and Brix, get to the Dreamlands? Or are the Dreamlands special, and you can use Plane Shift to get there, but nowhere else in the Dimension of Dreams?

The Dreamlands is sprawling with inconstant geography, and it has connections to all sorts of other places. One of the key elements of Dreamlands story is travel, often travel over very long distances or over a very long period of time. I imagined that Brix has been hunting across several planes (which *are* accessible with plane shift), and lucked out in finding one of the rare entrances to the Dreamlands; Bindlay followed her.

From a story perspective, I'd inform PCs interested in returning to the Dreamlands in the same way Brix and Bindlay did, "it took them quite a bit of wandering, across several strange worlds, with a bit of luck thrown in--while that sounds like an awesome adventure path, that's not the adventure path I'm running right now."

Contributor

Mal_Luck wrote:

So to be clear, because I was slightly confused when reading this, the players keep none of the gear acquired in Part 2 or Part 3? So is the only permanent reward in the Dreamlands the +2 bonus to stats?

I have 3 players in my game instead of 4, to balance the reward for the party should I make the rewarded bonus a +3 instead?

Correct about the gear. I wouldn't increase the stat bonus for 3 players, but that's up to you. A +3 bonus shifts works out to their key attribute being one "plus" higher for about half the campaign, so it's not inconsiderable.


negative_energy wrote:
Spastic Puma wrote:

Why does Weiralai kidnap the Yellow King? I suppose it's in her best interest because she wants to stop the players (or possibly enslave them) and help Lowls? But how does she know that the Yellow King is key to their mission? How did she know the players even met him? Or is it just blind luck that she stopped by at the caravanserai and thought the Yellow King was a genuinely interesting oddity to kill/imprison?

I can't remember if this was answered in the book but I've been skimming back and forth and I can't find it.

As it's written, I think it's just a big coincidence and she just wants the Yellow King as leverage against Lowls. I really wish the book made it clear what she wants out of all this. I don't know how you're supposed to play a character without a clear motivation.

My interpretation is that Weiralai and Lowls have likely met at the caravanserai before for business (or he at least mentioned it to her). Since she knows that Lowls and the PCs are connected, so after she learns the PCs are in the Dreamlands (probably from Captain Vadrack) she'd look for them there. The Yellow King would give the whole thing away pretty easily when intimidated/tortured.

I would like to know if Captain Vadrack's Planar Fast Healing works in that dream quest or if he's actually killable. It's pretty close to Leng. I'd also like to know what he hopes to accomplish by attacking the PCs in the Dreamlands. My guess is that he hopes to the Feargaunt's Nightmare Aura to prevent some of them from waking up.

I think I'll go with your explanation when I run that scene tomorrow. I agree that the lack of information about Weiralai makes her difficult to play as a DM. The fact that she's a recurring figure makes it even worse.

Silver Crusade

negative_energy wrote:
My interpretation is that Weiralai and Lowls have likely met at the caravanserai before for business (or he at least mentioned it to her). Since she knows that Lowls and the PCs are connected, so after she learns the PCs are in the Dreamlands (probably from Captain Vadrack) she'd look for them there. The Yellow King would give the whole thing away pretty easily when intimidated/tortured.

It was Weiralai who originally sold the PCs to Lowls. There's a point in book 2 where it mentions that Weiralai is trying to kill the PCs to correct the 'mistake' of selling them to Lowls in the first place (and also to help out Melisenn). Presumably she thinks he mishandled/mistreated them. Since the PCs then most likely kill her during book 2, she has a good reason to have it in for them in book 3. But as for her motivations regarding Lowls and the Yellow King in book 3, I'm just as confused as you are. It isn't explained very well.

Paizo Employee Developer

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The short of it is that Weiralai took the weird dream fragment of Lowls, the Yellow King, to hide him away and keep others from getting any information.

Weiralai is dedicated to Hastur and wishes to see him successful in his ultimate endeavors. She acted like a silent muse to bring Lowls to Hastur's breast, so to speak, and has propped him up to be successful. That's why she stayed behind after Lowls departed Thrushmoor. She didn't trust that Melisenn would do the job right. Weiralai also fought against the PCs to keep them from stopping Lowls. When she discovered the splinter of Lowl's mind that formed the Yellow King, she kidnapped him to keep others from interfering or questioning the fragment and learning too much, and figured keeping him on the moon would be safe enough until she decided what to do about the sliver of Lowls.

Also (spoiler alert), she shows up in a later volume—a bit beefed up after reforming in Leng.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

"It had to be me," Weiralai said in her odd, clipped manner of speech. "Someone else might have gotten it wrong."


So it is just random chance that she runs into him, right?

Paizo Employee Developer

Spastic Puma wrote:
So it is just random chance that she runs into him, right?

No. She knew that Lowls had gone to the Dreamlands to meet the Mad Poet and knew that he got there by using the dreamlands excursion ritual (which dumps you at the caravanserai unless you're using a specific focus). Both of these pieces of information are things she already knew from back in Thrushmoor. After realizing that something went wrong with the PCs, she backtracked Lowls' path and discovered the Yellow King in the caravanaserai.


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Almost finished running this. I'll drop a recap later for anyone who's interested. This book was incredible :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Spastic Puma wrote:
Almost finished running this. I'll drop a recap later for anyone who's interested. This book was incredible :)

Color me interested. Looking forward!

Doug M.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Color me interested.

Would that be an ochre hue?


So I knew that it would be hard to top the session before last. For those who didn't read it (it's earlier in this thread), it ended with Bokrug smiting the brawler who essentially sacrificed his sanity to grab the idol of Ib.

At this point, the party is suffering from at least 2 lesser madnesses each and doing an excellent job role playing them at that. Unfortunately, the Bloodrager who is suffering from the Ghoul corruption finally failed his save and ate one of the crew members overnight on the Sellen Starling. Fortunately, the party was able to cover up the grisly murder. The crew member's disappearance was convincingly explained away, but at the cost of straining the crew and captain's trust in them.

The Quests:
They did the remaining four dream quests, all within about ten game days. Some of them were very exciting, while others were conquered quite easily. For instance, the quest involving the Night Hag was short but sweet. The party quickly identified the confederate in her entourage but spent a great deal of time debating whether to take out the single assassin or fighting the much more difficult Night Hag. They finally decided on the latter, taking her out in 2 rounds and thankfully avoiding her fake heartstone trick.

The quest involving the Wamps was rather straightforward. None of the PC's were threatened they seemed to effortlessly glide through the encounters. On the other hand, the feline tail quest was a narrow victory, and quickly turned nasty when the pouncing tigers' full attacks took out the brawler and the bloodrager. The Royal Ghoul Skull was one of the easier ones. They managed to grab the relic and port out using the concentration check (or exploding themselves as they so affectionately call it) before the Ghoul Ranger and his posse arrived.

The Rescue:
When the party arrived at the Caravnserai I must admit I was excited to use the Denizens of Leng against them. Their sneak attack dice and dexterity-draining bite really got the sadistic side of my GMing mind rolling. However, due to my own tactical errors and the tight confines of the building, the denizens were quickly mowed down before I could anything really exciting with them.

Their foray into the moon prison started off dangerously, with the PC's attracting a great deal of attention from the Leng Ghouls and the Moon Beast. The Ghouls kept several of the party's member's paralyzed long enough for the moon beast to get off a Dominate Person on the party Bloodrager... who happened to have Protection from Evil cast on him. That mind control immunity probably won them what would have likely been a party wipe. After licking their wounds and burning through the rest of their CLW wands, they made their way to the second floor and encountered the prison torture "expert". I showed them the art for the character and somehow they gathered that the individual was a halfling from the art. Instead of correcting them, I played along. They were quick to attempt to browbeat the torture expert into giving them answers, but the halfling retorted with its own threats. Unimpressed, the party leader responded by saying that he has "taken down enemies who are twice your size." The halfling responded "Oh yeah?!" and took the opportunity to transform into his true form -- an adult nightmare dragon. Needless to say, that hilarious exchange will probably be referenced for many sessions to come.

Anyways, the party struggled but eventually cleared out the prison and rescued the Yellow King. Unfortunately, they stepped outside to find that their Shantak was no longer there. They made the mistake of releasing the Monster Hunter earlier and telling her to wait outside with the beast for them to come back. She took off and left them high and dry.

After much frustration and several dream days' worth of waiting, they made their way to the oasis. Roleplaying the Mad Poet was a lot of fun. The only thing better than playing as an impatient and irritated scholar is roleplaying an impatient/irritated scholar who is unhinged. Despite his abrasive personality, their jaws dropped when they received the permanent +2 bonus to the ability score of their choice. Unfortunately, I forgot to include the Jinmenju in my combat notes so the party never got to include that potentially unsettling fight. However, their encounters with their nightmare copies was a great deal of fun. I allowed them to run their clones, as well as their characters, and I must say it was a decision that turned out beautifully. Each player took the opportunity to enrich the fight with rich description and heated exchanges between their character and their character's 'shadow'. I had forgotten to snap a picture of their character sheets near the start of the adventure so I just had them fight the character sheet of their non-dreamlands self, which despite the gear difference, ended up being a sufficient challenge in and of itself. They defeated their copies but one member of the party fell into the oasis pool with their copy and emerged the lone victor afterwards. Already the party is starting question which version actually won.

Next session they'll be wrapping up the river travel and it will be off to the fourth book!


Does anyone know how the DM is supposed to handle animal companions and familiars during the dream expeditions? For characters like Hunters, Druids, and Summoners, their companions are a huge part of their power. Do they just "create" dream versions on the other side, or can they be brought along somehow?


I've had to nerf several of the fights, as my party was built more around interesting things they wanted to play/roll up, rather than perfect balance.

The first dream quest they managed to research was the one for the Green Idol. And those shades were murder machines on them. Two or three, can't recall at the moment, of the four person party got the permanent shaken from the Ib Shades' curse. Two of them also have pretty low touch ACs, compared to the other two, so they got beat on a lot by any of the Shades they got into combat with. The party is a Druid, a Paladin, a multi-classed melee machine, and a Brawler. Curses are not something they can currently deal with remotely well.

Animate Dreams also eat their lunch.

Beyond that though, they seemed to enjoy the way I have had them research the books. I've made it a puzzle, with research a book yielding some clues as to which books it needs to be cross referenced with. So they've been figuring out things in person, rather than just with rolls, which is cool.

I'll probably end up dropping some items in the Dreamlands that aid with fighting staving off curses/getting rid of curses. Any suggestions for things to drop?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
The Imperator wrote:

I've had to nerf several of the fights, as my party was built more around interesting things they wanted to play/roll up, rather than perfect balance.

The first dream quest they managed to research was the one for the Green Idol. And those shades were murder machines on them. Two or three, can't recall at the moment, of the four person party got the permanent shaken from the Ib Shades' curse. Two of them also have pretty low touch ACs, compared to the other two, so they got beat on a lot by any of the Shades they got into combat with. The party is a Druid, a Paladin, a multi-classed melee machine, and a Brawler. Curses are not something they can currently deal with remotely well.

Animate Dreams also eat their lunch.

Beyond that though, they seemed to enjoy the way I have had them research the books. I've made it a puzzle, with research a book yielding some clues as to which books it needs to be cross referenced with. So they've been figuring out things in person, rather than just with rolls, which is cool.

I'll probably end up dropping some items in the Dreamlands that aid with fighting staving off curses/getting rid of curses. Any suggestions for things to drop?

Remember, the curses don't transfer to the material world as well. This is the real cool part. You know the nightgaunts? They are CN. They can deliver items for your party. Cloak of Resistance +5, a total of 3 headbands, and 3 belts (a +6 one for one stat). Just enough to keep them alive. And if you want you can put a note in there that says:

"Happy Hunting! -Nodens"

Nodens Information:
Nodens is one of the Elder Gods and appears as an elderly, human male with white hair—gray-bearded and hoary yet still vital and strong. He is like the Dreamlands/Lovecraft version of Erastil.

He often rides in a chariot formed from a huge seashell pulled by some great beasts of legend. Nodens is served by the Nightgaunts.

As a hunter, he will chase down evil creatures in the Dreamlands, such as the Shantaks. He prefers to hunt the servants of the Great Old Ones or Nyarlathotep because they are usually the most intelligent and offer the best sport, but not necessarily because he wants to help humans being attacked by them. He has, however, been known to deliberately help humans, such as when he offers advice to assist Randolph Carter against Nyarlathotep.


I thought the Curses did, since they weren't physical, but mental?

*checks*

Oh, huh, you're right, it just says mental ability score damage and drain. Cool, I'll remember that going forward.

I really like the Nodens suggestion, it seems like a really cool idea.

Are there any rules for the kind of weird prices Dreamlands markets will charge? The Fey Campaign Setting guide just came out, and the list of weird prices the Fey charged made me wonder if the Dreamlands had anything like that in PF lore?


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I just let my players buy anything they wanted with the dreamlands funny money. However, this was before Adam Daigle revealed there would be no more dreamlands in the AP after book 3. They were kinda bummed they spent all that time getting excited for items they'd never get to use again


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I just finished running the Lunar Prison which went really well, but yeah I've had to nerf some stuff too. An Adult Nightmare dragon is listed as CR 10 but has the stats of a CR 13(!) monster, which makes her stronger than her own bosses and APL+4, which is unfair.

A few of the bigger balance changes I made:

ANIMATE DREAM: Remove spell resistance. Lower charisma by 2 points, changing stats to 19 AC, 78 HP, and lowering all save DCs by 1. Its melee attack does mind-affecting damage that bypasses DR (like Mind Thrust), not negative energy damage. An affected creature may make a will save (DC 20) to take half damage. If this save is failed, the creature becomes fatigued. If the creature is already fatigued it becomes exhausted. Only if it is already exhausted is it afflicted with Nightmare Curse.
(Apply the advanced template on top of this. This version still killed two PCs and cursed one.)

ADULT NIGHTMARE DRAGON: Change to Young Adult. This makes her closer to actually being CR 10. I also changed her name to the female form "Orsephellia."

Young Adult Nightmare Dragon (sorry for the nonstandard formatting):

Init +3; Senses dragon senses, dreamsight, see in darkness; Perception +17
Aura frightful presence (180 ft., DC 18)
DEFENSE
AC 23, touch 9, flat-footed 23 (+14 natural, –1 size)
hp 137 (11d12+66)
Fort +13, Ref +7, Will +10
DR 5/magic; Immune mind-affecting effects, paralysis, sleep; SR 21
OFFENSE
Speed 60 ft., fly 200 ft. (poor)
Melee bite +19 (2d6+12), 2 claws +18 (1d8+8), 2 wings +16 (1d6+4), tail slap +16 (1d8+12)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks breath weapon (40-ft. cone, DC 21, 10d6 acid)
Psychic Magic CL 11th; concentration +14)
- 8 PE—ghost sound (0 PE), true strike (1 PE)
Psychic Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +8)
- 1st (6/day)—command (DC 14), detect thoughts, ill omen
- 0 (at will)—bleed (DC 13), dancing lights, daze (DC 13), detect psychic significance, lullaby (DC 13)
STATISTICS
Str 27, Dex 11, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 17
Base Atk +11; CMB +20; CMD 30 (34 vs. trip)
Feats Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Bluff +17, Fly +8, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (arcana) +16, Knowledge (planes) +16, Perception +17, Sense Motive +17, Stealth +16
Languages Aklo, Common, Draconic
SQ change shape

(This version felt exciting and dangerous and dealt a lot of damage while the animated torture devices grappled the party's backline.)

FORMLESS SPAWN: I didn't end up running this but it has way too many impossible-to-bypass defenses and a little too much offense. Remove the spell resistance, the DR, and one tentacle attack.


I do think these encounters are supposed to be over-the-top difficulty-wise. After all, they don't actually die when they TPK in the Dreamlands. Plus, that gear...


If they are supposed to be that difficult, why don't their challenge ratings reflect that? It's a trap for GMs.

I just finished the final session, by the way. I customized and tweaked a bunch of stuff specifically for my party and it was really fun. I made custom "alternate builds" for each of the PCs (based on overhearing their level-up discussions) instead of the template thing, which they thought was really cool. Probably the most interesting boss fight I've seen in an adventure path.

Glower was way too easy, though, so I reworked it into more of a hostage situation to play to her strengths.


The Formless spawn may have a tight stat block but my group's party (medium, brawler, bloodrager, investigator) slaughtered it in 2 rounds. There is obviously random chance involved, but at the end of the day it is just one monster against 4 players.The nightmare dragon may not be close to the CR 10 stats in the monster stats by CR chart but we all know that's a crap shoot anyways. The fire giant blows those numbers out of the water by itself -- showing that it's not unprecedented for a monster to exceed those numbers. Also, the nightmare dragon is in league with the CR 10 adult white dragon's numbers. Sure, it may have mirror image but the adult crystal dragon has shield and glitter dust with a similarly high-caliber stat block. Honestly, dragons are usually underwhelming in pathfinder anyways -- especially when confined to small prison rooms. Lastly, the real issues that come from mid-CR'd creatures come from abilities that don't fit that level (like the Cytillipede's aoe stun that would grace every wizards spell list if it existed as a spell) or swarms at early levels that outrun players and have crippling side effects.


Spastic Puma wrote:
Lastly, the real issues that come from mid-CR'd creatures come from abilities that don't fit that level (like the Cytillipede's aoe stun that would grace every wizards spell list if it existed as a spell)

Play a Psychic or Mesmerist then.


Oh snap there it is! Have to be 10th level to use it, though. The cytillipede is CR 6 and has it at a DC 22. That's really silly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Vorpal Scimitar saved the day more than once in this adventure. During the Tricorne quest there were 3 decapitations (including the captain after 2/3 of the party were down), decapitated one of the nightmare maenads, and one of the final bosses. There were others, but those were the most notable ones I can remember.

We also had the transmuter wizard threaten to Detonate himself (while transformed into a Fire Elemental) while holding the Necklace of Fireballs to force the Night Hag to hand over her item. It was hilarious.

We had a lot of fun with this book.


Is it me or are HP of the Mad Poet off?

He has 253 HP, yet he should only have 222. From HD 20*3.5=70. Con +120. Toughness +20. Greater false life +12. There are 31 HP I'm missing. And that doesn't even count the 80 HP the Necronomicon gives him.


long john silver wrote:

Is it me or are HP of the Mad Poet off?

He has 253 HP, yet he should only have 222. From HD 20*3.5=70. Con +120. Toughness +20. Greater false life +12. There are 31 HP I'm missing. And that doesn't even count the 80 HP the Necronomicon gives him.

Greater False Life is 2d10+20. Favored class should count for another 20.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
long john silver wrote:

Is it me or are HP of the Mad Poet off?

He has 253 HP, yet he should only have 222. From HD 20*3.5=70. Con +120. Toughness +20. Greater false life +12. There are 31 HP I'm missing. And that doesn't even count the 80 HP the Necronomicon gives him.

Greater False Life is 2d10+20. Favored class should count for another 20.

That would add up to 261.


HP from HD are either 72 or 73, depending on how you round. First HD Is max HP.

You'd have to calculate skills to see how many favored class bonus went into that vs. HP. Then the remainder is what was rolled for Greater False Life, maybe.


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From HD 19*3.5+6= 72
From Con 120
From Thoughness 20
From G. False Life 31
From Favorite Class 10

Total 253

Ok, don't mind me.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
The Imperator wrote:

I thought the Curses did, since they weren't physical, but mental?

*checks*

Oh, huh, you're right, it just says mental ability score damage and drain. Cool, I'll remember that going forward.

I really like the Nodens suggestion, it seems like a really cool idea.

Are there any rules for the kind of weird prices Dreamlands markets will charge? The Fey Campaign Setting guide just came out, and the list of weird prices the Fey charged made me wonder if the Dreamlands had anything like that in PF lore?

In the world that they are going to sanity is like gold. Basically if you wanted to you could charge them sanity. 1 point of sanity for 1d4 1000 gp's. You can have a lot of fun with this especially if they want a magical item or the like. For example, in one of the comics that nyarlathotep is in there is a strange entity who is known as the harlot who will take things such as your wisdom teeth for knowledge. She removes them in the dimension of dreams and it affects the body. It just will have a permenant cost. Sanity damage can be recovered, they can't recover "drain" if you wanted to go that route ^_^. It is also a good way to do it for spellcasters such as wizards, and if there is a sorcerer you can use this to give them "Free spells known".


I am constantly impressed by the depth of questions I see in these posts. I seem to be finding more mundane issues to struggle with. This is one of them. Can anyone lend advice?

How does everyone fit on the Sellen Starling while also transporting a load of cargo? You have the captain, her crew of 12, two scholars, and the PCs. When I look at the size of he ship it doesn't add up for me. It seems impossibly cramped.

Perhaps this was common to be really tightly packed? Is there a large hold below the deck?

Why would Skywin need 12 people to support sailing this small vessel, especially since they don't handle the loading/unloading responsibilities?

Any links to info about sailing a vessel like this would be awesome too.

I've never sailed before (only power boats), so I admit this is a big area I need help getting my head around for role play and setting development.

Thanks!

Paizo Employee Developer

The Sellen Starling indeed has a hold below deck, and there *might* be a few too many crew for everyone to be doing something at all times, but they probably work in shifts.

In fantasy games that use a 5-foot-square grid, ships and boats are always abstracted. One thing to keep in mind is that the squares on a combat map represent the space that a Small or Medium creature occupies while fighting, and aren't necessarily useful for determining people just hanging out or working closely side by side. The Sellen Starling is 50 feet long and 20 feet wide, which isn't a small boat in any means. One summer when I was a kid I was helping a friend and his family refinish their nearly 30-foot sailboat, and I pretty much lived on that boat for nearly two months. Everything on a boat is small and cramped, and I've yet to see a RPG combat map represent that accurately (because, frankly, that'd be unfun).

All that said, you should completely feel free to reduce the number of crew. The statistics for the Sellen Starling mirror those given to a keelboat from Ultimate Combat, so she'd need at least 8 to crew the boat.

Oh, and unloading is a dockworker's job, not a sailor's ;)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Rides Water wrote:

I am constantly impressed by the depth of questions I see in these posts. I seem to be finding more mundane issues to struggle with. This is one of them. Can anyone lend advice?

How does everyone fit on the Sellen Starling while also transporting a load of cargo? You have the captain, her crew of 12, two scholars, and the PCs. When I look at the size of he ship it doesn't add up for me. It seems impossibly cramped.

Perhaps this was common to be really tightly packed? Is there a large hold below the deck?

The Mayflower (according to Wikipedia) held 102 passengers and around 30 crew plus supplies for a two month journey. 100' length and up to 20' width, with four decks.

The Sellen Starling, at half that size, would presumably have enough room for over 50 people. 20 plus cargo seems perfectly reasonable.


So does this part of the Dimension of Dreams:

Quote:

As a standard action, a number of times during the dream equal to the creature’s Charisma bonus (minimum 1) the dreamer can attempt one impossible action, such as casting a spell, gaining an effect of a spell as if it were cast, or conjuring a magic item. This requires a successful Charisma check (DC 10 + the level of the spell being cast or spell effect replicated or half of the caster level of the item conjured; nonmagical items are caster level 0). Other fantastic feats are also possible with GM approval and a Charisma check with a DC determined by the GM.

-Occult Adventures

Does this apply to the Dreamlands, or is it stable enough that this doesn't apply?

Paizo Employee Developer

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The Dreamlands doesn't necessarily operate in the same way as the Dimension of Dreams, since it's a more established portion of that plane. The Dreamlands planar traits are in a sidebar on page 16, and on that same page the section titled Journey to the Dreamlands provides more details about how the Dreamlands works for the PCs.

I specifically didn't include the impossible actions part of the usual Dimension of Dreams traits, because I wanted to have the Dreamlands be more unique and to also be a bit more challenging for visitors like the PCs.

I could see Dreamlands natives being able to perform impossible actions, though. And, I don't think it would mess too much of anything up if a GM were to allow the PCs to do it. It was just something that I didn't want as an official rule.


Narsham wrote:
Rides Water wrote:

I am constantly impressed by the depth of questions I see in these posts. I seem to be finding more mundane issues to struggle with. This is one of them. Can anyone lend advice?

How does everyone fit on the Sellen Starling while also transporting a load of cargo? You have the captain, her crew of 12, two scholars, and the PCs. When I look at the size of he ship it doesn't add up for me. It seems impossibly cramped.

Perhaps this was common to be really tightly packed? Is there a large hold below the deck?

The Mayflower (according to Wikipedia) held 102 passengers and around 30 crew plus supplies for a two month journey. 100' length and up to 20' width, with four decks.

The Sellen Starling, at half that size, would presumably have enough room for over 50 people. 20 plus cargo seems perfectly reasonable.

I don't think the Sellen Starling has 4 decks. I believe it would be considered two. That would require dividing the number in half again, to a quarter of the size of the Mayflower.

That still requires the assumption that the Mayflower and Sellen Starling were designed, loaded, and utilized in similar manners.

I appreciate your reply Narsham, I'm just not seeing what you are.

After reading Daigle's reply, I am going to play this out exactly as it was written in the book. I think it will be fun to see how the players manage living in tight quarters with strangers.


Hi, all! My players are going to be starting the dream quests next session, and I have a dumb question. Is it possible to wake a player up once they have cast the dreamlands excursion ritual? Like can the wizard just shake them all awake once he has made the caster level check?

Sorry if this has been asked before; I tried looking for it, but did not see anything which makes me think the answer is "obviously yes" and I'm just overthinking it.

I think this could be important for the green idol or ghoul quest because there is no way my fighter can make that concentration check quickly.

Thanks so much for your time! I have loved reading these books, and I have learned so much about the Lovecraft mythos.


Rides Water wrote:


I don't think the Sellen Starling has 4 decks. I believe it would be considered two. That would require dividing the number in half again, to a quarter of the size of the Mayflower.

That still requires the assumption that the Mayflower and Sellen Starling were designed, loaded, and utilized in similar manners.

I appreciate your reply Narsham, I'm just not seeing what you are.

A typical Viking Longship like the Snekkja was about 50feet long, 8 feet wide, one single deck. It had 10 pairs of oars and a crew of 41.

The Sellern is twice as wide and has two decks.

If comfort is not an issue, you can pack a lot of people in a tight space

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