Multiclass Archetypes XI: Resurgence


Homebrew and House Rules

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Denorisn wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:


@AVoltoro

As for the Bloodgunner, from what it seems is you're looking to make a series of combat oriented bloodlines, which itself may take a while. I'd suggest what I mentioned before, and instead of using Gunslinger/Sorcerer we use Gunslinger/Bloodrager, and use the Bloodrager's bloodlines to fit the combat niche of the class, while forming "Bloodgrit" from both Bloodrage and Grit.

See I looked into that in my free time. For the bloodgunner, we're looking at Something that just uses grit points to spend on rounds of bloodrage?

Most bloodrager bloodlines are melee oriented in nature, we gleem this from the Abyssal and Draconic bloodlines, which give access to claws as melee weapons. Gunslingers avoid melee at almost all costs, so what good would these first level powers do? I'm kinda on the fence about this concept, as I don't see it working unless one made up entirely new bloodlines.

My suggesting would be to keep full soceror bloodlines for the class. have the 4th level spellcasting be based of the bloodrager's spell list, and add a new ability in, though it might turn them slightly into a magus copy.

For 1 point of grit, have the bloodgunner be able to channel any spell or bloodline ability with the range of "touch" or "ranged Touch" through his gun's next attack. Essentially make this a ranged version of a magus's spellstrike. this allows the gunner to feel like they are enchanting their bullets with arcane energies. Unlike bloodrager bloodlines, sorc bloodlines are full of ranged touch effects.

Not to worry, I wasn't intending on giving the Bloodgunner melee based bloodrage powers, The 1st level bloodrage abilities would be lost, but all others retained and progress as normal. Here is some basic ideas of what I had in mind using Gunslinger/Bloodrager:

Bloodgunner Notes:

Bloodline: At 1st level, a Bloodgunner gains a Bloodrager Bloodline of her choice.

Reduced Deeds: The Bloodgunner removes the following deeds from his list of available deeds; Gunslinger’s Dodge, Gunslinger Initiative, Dead Shot, Bleeding Wound, Slinger’s Luck and Death’s Shot.

Spellcasting: At 4th level, the Bloodgunner gains a normal Bloodrager's Spellcasting. He substitutes his Wisdom in place of Charisma.

Bloodline Powers: At 4th level, the Bloodgunner gains her bloodline's 4th level Bloodline power. At 8th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, she gains the Bloodline power of that level. A Bloodgunner does not gain the 1st level Bloodrage Power of her bloodline.

If any of her bloodline abilities require her to Bloodrage, she can instead substitute her grit points to keep them active. She spends 1 Grit per turn to maintain a Bloodrage triggered power. This ability replaces the lost deeds and Nimble.

Bonus Feats: When a Bloodgunner gains a bonus feat, he may choose one of her Bloodline's Bonus Feats in it's place

Bloodline Spell: At 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th levels, a bloodgunner learns an additional spell derived from his bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table: Bloodgunner. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels. This ability replaces Gun Training.


Tyrannical wrote:

Not to worry, I wasn't intending on giving the Bloodgunner melee based bloodrage powers, The 1st level bloodrage abilities would be lost, but all others retained and progress as normal. Here is some basic ideas of what I had in mind using Gunslinger/Bloodrager:

Bloodgunner Notes:

Bloodline: At 1st level, a Bloodgunner gains a Bloodrager Bloodline of her choice.

Reduced Deeds: The Bloodgunner removes the following deeds from his list of available deeds; Gunslinger’s Dodge, Gunslinger Initiative, Dead Shot, Bleeding Wound, Slinger’s Luck and Death’s Shot.

Spellcasting: At 4th level, the Bloodgunner gains a normal Bloodrager's Spellcasting. He substitutes his Wisdom in place of Charisma.

Bloodline Powers: At 4th level, the Bloodgunner gains her bloodline's 4th level Bloodline power. At 8th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, she gains the Bloodline power of that level. A Bloodgunner does not gain the 1st level Bloodrage Power of her bloodline.

If any of her bloodline abilities require her to Bloodrage, she can instead substitute her grit points to keep them active. She spends 1 Grit per turn to maintain a Bloodrage triggered power. This ability replaces the lost deeds and Nimble.

Bonus Feats: When a Bloodgunner gains a bonus feat, he may choose one of her Bloodline's Bonus Feats in it's place

Bloodline Spell: At 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th levels, a bloodgunner learns an additional spell derived from his bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table: Bloodgunner. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels. This ability replaces Gun Training.

Okay I like where this is going, I jst have a small question. What does the bloodline do at 1st level? And Grit =/= rage rounds, due to grit being such a small pool. I'd make it so that speding 1 point of grit gives a number of rounds of rage equal to 3+con (or wis) modifier. Since you will have such fw points of grit I don't see spending them all on rage being that useful. Also allow them to regain 1 point of grit after casting any spell. so they can fuel their rage rounds via using the spells they are supposed to. That sounds interesting. Overall its coming together nicely.

And I think we can call the Cursebound all ready to ship out. Lets just leave the current capstone as is and not worry about giving them bonus spell slots. is there anything else the archetype needs?

I'll give the poisoner ranger a look here soon.


Ah, bit of error in communication on my part there. the Bloodgunner does not gain Bloodrage, but any of his Bloodline Abilities that would require him to Bloodrage to activate instead spend a point of grit in it's place to maintain.

I'll write up a final version of the Cursebound soon, and then I'll hand it off to the community page for all to see :)


Okay, here's the final version of the Cursebound, I'll get this up on the community page as soon as I can.

Cursebound:

In life, the master of the arcane arts wield great and terrible power. They hone their minds and the spirits to master the magic of the universe, but what about in death? Not all go willingly to the next plane of existence, some fight, claw and struggle against the dark and their spirits go astray from the path of the afterlife, becoming wandering phantoms on the mortal world. Be they in their final moments of life, or somehow after death, they latch their own souls to the willing or unsuspecting and in doing so curse their host to live a life bound to the soul of another.

Primary Class: Spiritualist
Secondary Class: Witch
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: D8

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Cursebound is proficient with all simple weapons, kukris, saps, and scythes, as well as with light armor.

Spellcasting: A Cursebound uses their Intelligence in place of Wisdom when learning or casting spells, in addition to calculating DC for saving throws against the Cursebound's spells and bonus spells per day.

Esoteric Phantom (Su): Cursebound are intrinsically linked to the spirit of a powerful arcane caster. This ability works in all ways like the phantom ability of a normal spiritualist save for the following differences. Esoteric phantoms are not born out of a strong emotion or feeling, but rather cursed magic. Rather than gain an emotional focus, Esoteric phantoms gain a small portion of the magical ability they once had in life.

This manifest itself in the form of the ability to hex targets of their choosing. At 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th levels the phantom learns any one witch hex of the phantom’s choice. While manifested incorporeally, the phantom may hex any target within range, even corporeal foes. Starting at 11th level, it may also select from the list of major hexes available to witches. The DC for any hex cast by a phantom is 10 + ½ the cursebound’s level + the phantom’s charisma modifier.

Though at one point they may have been powerful spell casters, esoteric phantoms have been reduced, literally, to a shade of their former spells. Their spell knowledge is limited, and as such they act as a patron to the host they are bound to. At 1st level the cursebound selects one patron from the list of witch patrons, and gains a number of ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) equal to its hit dice. While bound to the cursebound’s subconscious, it grants it host skill focus in each of those skills. This ability alters Phantom

Esoteric Tether (Su): Esoteric phantoms are weaker than normal spiritualist phantoms due to their method of creation. While they lack the strength of will to become manifested in ectoplasmic form, they are suited to different strengths. While incorporeally manifested, an esoteric phantom may spontaneously cast any spell from its list of patron spells known itself, gaining and casting these spells as a normal Witch would, using its charisma modifier to determine the DC of the spell. Casting a spell this way requires and sacrifices a spell slot capable of casting it from the cursebound host. This ability alters Etheric Tether.

Arcane Bonded Manifestation: When using bonded manifestation, a cursebound cannot use an ectoplasmic bond. However, the strength of two casters is united together. In addition to the normal effects of an incorporeal bonded manifestation, while active the cursebound receives a +1 bonus to the caster level and DC of any patron spell she casts. This bonuses increases by 1 at 8th, 13th, and 18th levels, to a maximum of +4. This ability alters Bonded Manifestation.

Esoteric Interference (Su): At 4th level, as long as the cursebound is within 30ft of her incorporeally manifested phantom, she gains a +2 bonus on saves verses spells and spell-like abilities. This ability replaces Spiritual Interference.

Arcane Understanding: Starting at 7th level, the Cursebound may trade one of her Spiritualist spells per day to instead spontaneously cast a witch spell of a lower level (such as trading a 4th level Spiritualist spell for a 3rd level Witch spell). Every 4 levels thereafter, the Cursebound may trade an additional Spiritualist spell per day. This ability replaces Calm Spirit.

Greater Esoteric Interference (Su): At 12th level, whenever allies are within 30ft of the cursebound’s phantom, they gain a +2 bonus on their saves versus spells and spell-like abilities. For the cursebound herself, this bonus increases to +4. This ability replaces Greater Spiritual Interference.

Cursebound Consciousness (Su):
At 20th level, while a Cursebound's phantom is confined in her consciousness, she is immune to curses, including spells with the curse descriptor and enemy witch hexes. This ability replaces Empowered Consciousness.


so! up next is the Prowling Poisoner and the Bloodgunner. It may take a while for AVoltoro to get back to us so I'm putting it on a low priority, so any other ideas are free to be posted up if anybody would like!

There's still opportunity for sharing ideas on the Bloodgunner, but without AVoltoro's feedback it's going to be hard to capture his standards.


Hey, just checking in to let you know the wiki is down. Apparently they don't do free non educational wikis anymore.


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Alick wrote:
Hey, just checking in to let you know the wiki is down. Apparently they don't do free non educational wikis anymore.

Hi Alick,

Our MCA Wiki has been down for some time now, and we are in the process of moving all our collected works over to the pathfinder community, you can find us here;

http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/classes/multiclass-archetypes

until everything is transferred, you can access our work in PDF format (look for PDFs 'Critiques' for the full works)

http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/classes/multiclass-archetypes/pdf-files


Any idea when the paladin/gunslinger hybrid or ninja/witch hybrid will be posted to the new site?


Alick wrote:
Any idea when the paladin/gunslinger hybrid or ninja/witch hybrid will be posted to the new site?

Things are progressing slowly, I can say that much. Unfortunately I'm only responsible for adding new material (which I will do in batches) instead of updating the old.


Sadness. Anyone got the witch/ninja mca saved somewhere I can have?


Has anyone worked on a Magus/Kineticist MCA? I have some pretty neat ideas floating around that I might want to put into writing.


Alick wrote:
Sadness. Anyone got the witch/ninja mca saved somewhere I can have?

http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/classes/multiclass-archetypes/pdf-files

Arcane Masters I Critique.

Johnny_Devo wrote:
Has anyone worked on a Magus/Kineticist MCA? I have some pretty neat ideas floating around that I might want to put into writing.

Hi Johnny_Devo!

I don't believe it's been done! Occult Class MCAs are a rarity, though Kinetecist is something I plan to be doing plenty work with, so shoot!

Grand Lodge

Tyrannical wrote:
Alick wrote:
Sadness. Anyone got the witch/ninja mca saved somewhere I can have?
Arcane Masters I Critique

Fixed it for you.

Dark Archive

Glad to see this is still going on, or more that it started back up again, perhaps I can jump in and offer a few ideas?

Also, given how the site is down is there a chance anyone might be able to get me the MCA that I come up with the concept for before? They're not all in the PDF files provided.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
JonathonWilder wrote:

Glad to see this is still going on, or more that it started back up again, perhaps I can jump in and offer a few ideas?

Also, given how the site is down is there a chance anyone might be able to get me the MCA that I come up with the concept for before? They're not all in the PDF files provided.

Welcome back Jonathan!

Ideas are always welcome, the floor is open to any new ideas since we're currently in a state of limbo in regards to feedback.

If there's something specific you're looking for, and it doesn't appear to be in the MCA PDFs, you could try searching through the dump.

MCA Dump

The dump is a little harder to navigate, and a little hard to read with the formatting, but if something existed on the MCAwiki it should be there, if not, it was likely implemented too late to be added to the wiki or lost when the wiki closed.

Dark Archive

Tyrannical wrote:

Welcome back Jonathan!

Ideas are always welcome, the floor is open to any new ideas since we're currently in a state of limbo in regards to feedback.

If there's something specific you're looking for, and it doesn't appear to be in the MCA PDFs, you could try searching through the dump.

MCA Dump

The dump is a little harder to navigate, and a little hard to read with the formatting, but if something existed on the MCAwiki it should be there, if not, it was likely implemented too late to be added to the wiki or lost when the wiki closed.

Actually I found that if you download the file and then open it up in Google Docs it formats everything for you and it isn't difficult to read it all.

The only thing that's a little off is the tables, which come off a bit squished. Yet that could simply be because I'm using my phone. Really though, all in all it's managable and I definitely think I'd be able to find everything of mine since I do believe it was all put on the wiki originally.
------------------

Actually have I have a few ideas I could offer for MCAs... but I've been focusing most of my free time on the figuring out the details of how I want to build a particular character of mine though I'm running into a few snags. Counting, embarrassing enough, what her ability stats should start out as for 1st level.

I can offer more if you'd like to know such, maybe you can even give some help and advice, but that would need to be by way of a link to the thread or we could talk about it in the PM.


Tyrannical wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
Has anyone worked on a Magus/Kineticist MCA? I have some pretty neat ideas floating around that I might want to put into writing.

Hi Johnny_Devo!

I don't believe it's been done! Occult Class MCAs are a rarity, though Kinetecist is something I plan to be doing plenty work with, so shoot!

Okay! I have a very early draft, with simply focusing on meshing the classes together. It actually took a lot to make them feel like one class. I put effort into making it not too powerful, but I'm also worried that it still might be a little too powerful.

I don't know the regular posting rules for this thread, so I just put it on a google document.

Anyone on that link can leave comments, I guess? Not sure quite how this process goes. Thoughts?

Dark Archive

Definitely looks like a good start, no I'm not perhaps the right person ask about balance and things like that.

Dark Archive

Has anyone created Ninja/Investigator MCA?
----------------------------------------
One that blends the utility of alchemy and ki what with that of an ability similar yet different to both studied strike and sneak attack, deductive reasoning, analyzing a situation to your advantage, general investigative and perception focus, and strong close combat ability. With this, keeping with the fact that both classes are something of major skill monkeys.


Johnny_Devo wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
Has anyone worked on a Magus/Kineticist MCA? I have some pretty neat ideas floating around that I might want to put into writing.

Hi Johnny_Devo!

I don't believe it's been done! Occult Class MCAs are a rarity, though Kinetecist is something I plan to be doing plenty work with, so shoot!

Okay! I have a very early draft, with simply focusing on meshing the classes together. It actually took a lot to make them feel like one class. I put effort into making it not too powerful, but I'm also worried that it still might be a little too powerful.

I don't know the regular posting rules for this thread, so I just put it on a google document.

Anyone on that link can leave comments, I guess? Not sure quite how this process goes. Thoughts?

I was a little confused at first, since it says Kineticist/Magus, but I'm guessing it's intended to be other way around, a Magus/Kineticist?

I would tweak Kinetic Combat for the sake of balance/ability management, as it comes across as being a little complicated to use. I would say that it should function like Spell combat, though your spell hand can be used for blasts in addition to spells, and your weapon hand may be used for kinetic blade. Kinetic Blade itself would occupy your hand, so making it as though your hands must be free conflicts with this.


Tyrannical wrote:

I was a little confused at first, since it says Kineticist/Magus, but I'm guessing it's intended to be other way around, a Magus/Kineticist?

Ah... yes. I originally had "magus/kineticist" but then I started calling it the "kinetic magus" everywhere else in the document so I guess my brain farted and switch the title around because it looked wrong.

Quote:


I would tweak Kinetic Combat for the sake of balance/ability management, as it comes across as being a little complicated to use. I would say that it should function like Spell combat, though your spell hand can be used for blasts in addition to spells, and your weapon hand may be used for kinetic blade. Kinetic Blade itself would occupy your hand, so making it as though your hands must be free conflicts with this.

Well, the idea of the class, in my mind, is that I basically want to replace the martial half of the magus with a kineticist-lite, while still trying to retain the original feel of the magus.

Regarding "your hands must be free", the original language of kinetic blast already requires a free hand, and then kinetic blade would fill it. In both this archetype and the kineticist, the "free hand" requirement is basically a prerequisite to allow you to do the things with that hand. (though I should probably include some exception for the sake of the telekineticist)

At first I was thinking "as spell combat but your main hand is a kinetic blast with kinetic blade", but then it occured to me that the ability would either have to be useless until you picked up kinetic blade, or the archetype would have to grant you kinetic blade at level 1 and make the magus arcana progression feel off, etc etc. I didn't want to limit you to kinetic blade only, either, as form infusions are half of your options as a kineticist.

Basically, I kept seeing weirdness in simply altering spell combat:

- The kinetic blasts don't always follow the rules of an attack, so "all your attacks" just sounds weird in regular blast context.
- normal spell combat requires you to be "wielding" a weapon, which a kinetic blast explicitly states you're never wielding it.
- as worded, the kinetic magus would have to make the full concentration check DC for a kinetic blast even if he paid the attack penalty.

With all those things, it basically ended up that I was writing exceptions to spell combat that turned out to be longer than just re-writing the ability. So, I just re-wrote the ability. It essentially has all the components of spell combat. "primary form of attack" in one hand, "secondary form of attack" in the other hand. penalty to hit on all associated attacks, keeping ambiguous language because of the many different possible attack rolls you can make using this ability. The ability to take additional to-hit penalties for extra concentration, this time using language so that you also get the bonus to the concentration check you're making, if any, associated with the kinetic blast as well as the spell. The choice of which one to use first, and finally the language that retains this ability's function as a full attack if you're ever using something that would allow multiple iteratives.

It does feel a little powerful to me, but that's why I made sure of two things. First, the kinetic magus never gets any of the "infusion specialization" features that the kineticist has, so in order to keep up with the kineticist's blasting abilities, he has to spend his resources a lot quicker. In addition, I introduced "diminished spellcasting" to the magus half. Now he's weaker than a kineticist at kineticist'ing, and he's weaker than a magus at magus'ing, but can do them at the same time, much like the original flavor of the wizard/fighter magus.

Is the original idea. I personally defend my choices in kinetic combat and kinetic strike because they're the ones I put the most thought into for attempting to mesh the classes together. For balance concerns, I would prefer to tweak other things elsewhere, for example if he does too much damage, reduce the damage progression to a kineticist 3/4 of his level, or something.

... wow. This post got bigger than I originally planned.


Instead of asking a person to calculate 2/3 of their Magus level to determine their ability to pick up infusions, why not say that they can pick up utility and infusion wild talents of a level equal to the highest level spell they're able to cast? It still comes out the same and is a little friendlier.


CalethosVB wrote:
Instead of asking a person to calculate 2/3 of their Magus level to determine their ability to pick up infusions, why not say that they can pick up utility and infusion wild talents of a level equal to the highest level spell they're able to cast? It still comes out the same and is a little friendlier.

Ohh, that is quite elegant. The magus is already a 2/3 caster, and the kineticist infusions progress like a 9th level sorcerer in terms of levels, so there really is no difference if I say it that way.

However, it was actually fairly intentional to allow utility wild talents to be picked up as a magus of full kineticist level, as I've only given them two via class features.

I do like that, though. I think I'll change that right now.

EDIT: I still feel the need to keep the 2/3 kineticist for taking feats, unless "extra wild talent" is the only kineticist only feat. Then I would be able to change it to "you can now take the "extra wild talent" feat without meeting its prerequisites"


Have you seem the text for Extra Wild Talent? The best your Magus will be getting from that feat is a 4th level talent.


CalethosVB wrote:
Have you seem the text for Extra Wild Talent? The best your Magus will be getting from that feat is a 4th level talent.

As I think about it, it may be a little bit harsh to tack on a -2 to an already 2/3 progression. I may make it so that "extra arcana" qualifies as "whenever you gain a magus arcana" for selecting more infusions. This actually puts the magus ahead in the early levels in terms of "level of infusion I can select with extra stuff", but the kineticist will quickly outpace the magus and the kineticist gets more talents to begin with, so I don't think it's a problem. With this way, though, the magus wouldn't ever get more than the two utility wild talents.

One thing that occured to me, though, is I don't think kinetic strike currently works as written. Casting any spell, and I believe that extends to spell-like abilities like kinetic blast, would dissipate any touch spell the magus may cast. I'll probably have to add in some exception to that.


So I did some running of the numbers, and I discovered that a full blast progression makes this archetype a little too powerful.

So, as a way to nerf it, i've modified the kinetic blast to progress at the same rate as the magus's spell level progression, which equates to a roughly 2/3 nerf in blast damage. This brings the kinetic magus's damage a bit more in line with the crit-fishing magus build, and the lower pool of resources is made up for by the ability to deal more damage than a regular magus that has run out of resources.

I also patched up the problem of touch spells being dissipated by simply saying "using a kinetic blast never dissipates a held touch spell".


Sorry I've been gone for a little while, been a busy few weeks recently!

@Johnny_Devo, I think making kinetic blast advance at the same rate as magus spells is both a good way to balance the skill when matched against spell potential, and makes it far easier and more streamlined when reading.

That being said, I think kinetic blast should expend spell slots, if you're aiming to keep magus spellcasting (which personally I think might be a bad choice considering kinetic blasts are an alternative to heavy spellcasting, though much in the same way alchemist bombs are)

As I see it, Kinetic Blasts and Infusions replace offensive spellcasting, while Wild Talents replace utility and defensive spellcasting.

I'd say you should take this into consideration for balance sake, decide what role you want Kineticist to occupy, and what role you want to retain from Magus.


Tyrannical wrote:

Sorry I've been gone for a little while, been a busy few weeks recently!

@Johnny_Devo, I think making kinetic blast advance at the same rate as magus spells is both a good way to balance the skill when matched against spell potential, and makes it far easier and more streamlined when reading.

That being said, I think kinetic blast should expend spell slots, if you're aiming to keep magus spellcasting (which personally I think might be a bad choice considering kinetic blasts are an alternative to heavy spellcasting, though much in the same way alchemist bombs are)

As I see it, Kinetic Blasts and Infusions replace offensive spellcasting, while Wild Talents replace utility and defensive spellcasting.

I'd say you should take this into consideration for balance sake, decide what role you want Kineticist to occupy, and what role you want to retain from Magus.

Well, in a way, the kinetic blast already is occupying quite a number of spell slots. Not only did I give the archetype diminished spellcasting, I also took away "spell recall". At level 4, that amounts to a loss of a cantrip slot, 1 level 1 spell, 1 level 2 spell, and whatever is in your arcane pool worth of "levels" of spells. That's quite a lot as a trade for a magus, but if I were to reverse that and instead make the blasts cost spell slots, this archetype would suddenly be running out of resources twice as fast as the base magus, and then be left with even fewer options than the base magus when he does run out.

As for the role I wanted it to fill, I essentially wanted to replace all of the martial ability of the magus with a loose resemblance of the kineticist, while still maintaining the flavor of the magus wading into melee to mix it up with "sword" and spell. That's why he only has one infusion choice locked in at level 3, and can only begin taking more infusions at level 6, as well as why the utility loss of spell recall is made up for with access to utility wild talents. Because of this, at early levels the kineticist half of the class is actually serving no purpose other than replacing the magus's martial capabilities. I do think I've maintained the flavor, at least once he hits level 3. At levels 1 and 2, lacking spellstrike, he'll simply feel like a wizard that can both cast a spell and zap someone in the same round, which seems cool to me as well.


dot


Johnny_Devo wrote:


Well, in a way, the kinetic blast already is occupying quite a number of spell slots. Not only did I give the archetype diminished spellcasting, I also took away "spell recall". At level 4, that amounts to a loss of a cantrip slot, 1 level 1 spell, 1 level 2 spell, and whatever is in your arcane pool worth of "levels" of spells. That's quite a lot as a trade for a magus, but if I were to reverse that and instead make the blasts cost spell slots, this archetype would suddenly be running out of resources twice as fast as the base magus, and then be left with even fewer options than the base magus when he does run out.

Hmm, I see your point, I think we can probably keep that aspect as is for now then, though I would say it's probably best to get rid of cantrips in general for this class, as utility wild talents might be made redundant, and that way we can make it a proper 1-4 caster just like Ranger and Paladin.

Johnny_Devo wrote:


As for the role I wanted it to fill, I essentially wanted to replace all of the martial ability of the magus with a loose resemblance of the kineticist, while still maintaining the flavor of the magus wading into melee to mix it up with "sword" and spell.

Have you also considered looking at other base Magus Archetypes for ideas? a Magus by practice does not have to be restricted to melee, some use throwing weapons and bows, it may also be worth looking at Melee oriented Kineticist archetypes too.

Most of my main inspiration typically draws from a base Archetype, and from there I expand upon it, it helps balance things out easier and gauge potential and flaws.


Sorry for the long wait guys. I had to focus on university coursework instead of this, but now it is slowing down I can get back to this.

Tyrannical wrote:
Denorisn wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:


@AVoltoro

As for the Bloodgunner, from what it seems is you're looking to make a series of combat oriented bloodlines, which itself may take a while. I'd suggest what I mentioned before, and instead of using Gunslinger/Sorcerer we use Gunslinger/Bloodrager, and use the Bloodrager's bloodlines to fit the combat niche of the class, while forming "Bloodgrit" from both Bloodrage and Grit.

See I looked into that in my free time. For the bloodgunner, we're looking at Something that just uses grit points to spend on rounds of bloodrage?

Most bloodrager bloodlines are melee oriented in nature, we gleem this from the Abyssal and Draconic bloodlines, which give access to claws as melee weapons. Gunslingers avoid melee at almost all costs, so what good would these first level powers do? I'm kinda on the fence about this concept, as I don't see it working unless one made up entirely new bloodlines.

My suggesting would be to keep full soceror bloodlines for the class. have the 4th level spellcasting be based of the bloodrager's spell list, and add a new ability in, though it might turn them slightly into a magus copy.

For 1 point of grit, have the bloodgunner be able to channel any spell or bloodline ability with the range of "touch" or "ranged Touch" through his gun's next attack. Essentially make this a ranged version of a magus's spellstrike. this allows the gunner to feel like they are enchanting their bullets with arcane energies. Unlike bloodrager bloodlines, sorc bloodlines are full of ranged touch effects.

Not to worry, I wasn't intending on giving the Bloodgunner melee based bloodrage powers, The 1st level bloodrage abilities would be lost, but all others retained and progress as normal. Here is some basic ideas of what I had in mind using Gunslinger/Bloodrager:

** spoiler omitted **...

My main concern with the bloodrager idea is that I feel the lack of a 1st level Bloodline power would make the class too weak at early levels. However, it does incorporate the use of Grit in an elegant way. With the sorcerer idea, I don't think that Grit is used in an interesting way, but it seems balanced throughout. The thing is that I think spending Grit to activate Sorcerer powers would not work well, due to it being designed to be constantly active. Regardless, I think using the full Bloodrager spell list is a great chioce


Hey again!

I've been rather busy with university work myself, and handling some other side projects in between, so I've been a bit absent myself, so nothing to worry about.

I should maybe enhance on what I said a while back, I was thinking of removing the 1st level bloodrager power, yes, but I will be replacing it with something more fitting to the ranged theme. The 1st level bloodrager pwoers are typically melee oriented last I checked.


Well, it seems that I've finally caught up to the latest MCA thread. I haven't seen one and I don't believe I've seen it thrown out.

Primary; Gunslinger

Secondary; Psychic

Concept; A Soulbolt, but better! Replace Battered Guns, add a flavorful, or replace, Psychic Discipline, reduce Spells and draw from a slimmed list? Also, Psychich Deeds/Grit Modification and the ability to manifest a ranged weapon (different ones for diffrent people) by spending a number of these points? This may actually work better for a diffrent set of classes but I'm just not seeing it.

Just like to thow this one out for anyone and I may start throwing some more work behind it myself. I've been working on balancing lately, so I may start becomeing a regular to the thread.


Welcome Eternal King!

We don't currently have a Gunslinger/Psychic just yet, so that one's certainly available for creation (as are most multiclasses using the occult adventures material).

Gunslingers (as you can probably tell) are my bane, along with monks and anything with a ki/grit pool, but I can certainly help out with building the class.

@Avoltoro - As for the Bloodgunner, I'm working on suitable replacement bloodrage powers for the 1st abilities of each bloodline.

@Johnny_Devo - The Kinetic/Magus looks about finished to me, all we need is a name now, and I'll put it in my folder ready to dump over to the official page when I've accumulated enough MCAs.


I have a Cleric/Kineticist I will polish up and submit. All I have to figure out is if it should keep 9th level spellcasting or reduce it to 6th.


Hmm... Best name I can come up with is "Primal Theurge". I'll update my word document with that.


Azten wrote:
I have a Cleric/Kineticist I will polish up and submit. All I have to figure out is if it should keep 9th level spellcasting or reduce it to 6th.

Kineticist is a wierd one for sure, from how I've pieced it together, it seems like a caster that works similar to alchemist's bombs and a whole bunch of utility spells.

On the topic of such, here's the Kineticist project I've been working on. I'm hoping to expand the list of available blasts, and have formulated a working spreadsheet of potential combinations;

Kineticist Expanded

I'd like to hopefully integrate this into future MCAs, and work on it on a seperate thread if anybody is interested.


Tyrannical wrote:

Welcome Eternal King!

We don't currently have a Gunslinger/Psychic just yet, so that one's certainly available for creation (as are most multiclasses using the occult adventures material).

Gunslingers (as you can probably tell) are my bane, along with monks and anything with a ki/grit pool, but I can certainly help out with building the class.

Sorry with the late response, and thank you for the greeting, I've been terribly busy. I've noticed, haha, but I do enjoy your work. I look forward to working with you and many others, and I haven't done to much work with it, yet. In truth, I wonder if a fighter/psychic would be better? I wanted the weapon manifestation to be the core (sorta like a ranged Psyloke, for any of her fans)

@Azten, if you don't mind I'll drop my two cents on that. Kineticist have access to some very nice spells as does cleric, but in truth, it really depend. Id say do it as a 6 level caster and boost the spell list in power, similar to what Paizo did for the summoner.


Running Draft

I hate to double post, but, this is what I have so far. It has some general thoughts and notes as far as concept goes.

Please feel free to assault my work.


The Eternal King wrote:

Running Draft

I hate to double post, but, this is what I have so far. It has some general thoughts and notes as far as concept goes.

Please feel free to assault my work.

First thoughts:

-It might be better to avoid making an entire spell list just for an archetype. I would say first to look over the existing psychic lists, or even a different class and assign it as a psychic list. For thematic reasons, though, it seems first appropriate to see if the psychic list works well enough.

-If you limit the changing of the weapon to once per level, I see no reason to give it additional limitations. Could easily say, "You always manifest the same weapon, but you can change what weapon is manifest whenever you gain a level". I think it would also add some variety to the gameplay if you simply allowed a different weapon to be manifest each time you use the ability; think mindblade magus.

Other than that, I don't know enough about both classes to make any statements about balance.


Hi all

I have no idea how to go about doing these archetypes but I always love reading what other people come up with.

I thought I would suggest an Idea and perhaps see if other people thought it was worth trying to expand on.

A Monk/Kineticist.
Tie the burn mechanic into the ki pool, alter things like kinetic blade to be able to manifest all monk weapons and have them flurry-able.

I love the avatar series and think a monk/kineticist would make a character like that better than either class seperately would be able to


Johnny_Devo wrote:
The Eternal King wrote:

Running Draft

I hate to double post, but, this is what I have so far. It has some general thoughts and notes as far as concept goes.

Please feel free to assault my work.

First thoughts:

-It might be better to avoid making an entire spell list just for an archetype

"You always manifest the same weapon, but you can change what weapon is manifest whenever you gain a level".

Other than that, I don't know enough about both classes to make any statements about balance.

Thanks for those points! I've made the suggested change, and I never thought about the Mindblade Magus, mostly because I've never played that archetype, I'll take another look through it.

On that note, going back through the spell list, their is a lot of nice stuff in it, I think some of it could be done without, but I do see your point.


Is it just me or does the archive dump end somewhere in the M's?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Von Krieger wrote:
Is it just me or does the archive dump end somewhere in the M's?

It appears so, but if you click the Open MCArchetypes pages, it'll open in google drive and it has the entire dump, including all my individual work on archetypes,races, etc.

You can then add the whole batch to your google drive.

Or you can download the pdfs from here.

MCA Pdfs


if anyone has time to brew can you brew vigilante synthesis summoner archtype


khadgar567 wrote:
if anyone has time to brew can you brew vigilante synthesis summoner archtype

I had an idea to do something like that at some point, but the 'Synthesis' it one of those classes that are often banned or taboo from games because it's seriously flawed and overpowered.

I might try using Druid, Alchemist or Hunter to replicate similar effects though.

The Eternal King wrote:

Running Draft

I hate to double post, but, this is what I have so far. It has some general thoughts and notes as far as concept goes.

Please feel free to assault my work.

I like how it's shaping up so far, I also agree with the notes that Johnny Devo has put forth.

I would also suggest that conjured weapons and ammo from the 'manifest' and 'mind munitions' should be detailed as though they -function- as an identical standard weapon/ammo type, and at later levels becomes masterwork in quality. However, it should not be treated as a physical weapon, so spells like Heat Metal or abilities like Disarm have no affect on it, though it should require concentration to maintain, and if broke the weapons/ammo disappear.


Tyrannical wrote:
khadgar567 wrote:
if anyone has time to brew can you brew vigilante synthesis summoner archtype

Might I suggest the druid? Something akin to a magical shapeshifter, or a false lycanthrope?

The Eternal King wrote:

Running Draft

I hate to double post, but, this is what I have so far. It has some general thoughts and notes as far as concept goes.

Please feel free to assault my work.

I like how it's shaping up so far, I also agree with the notes that Johnny Devo has put forth.

I would also suggest that conjured weapons and ammo from the 'manifest' and 'mind munitions' should be detailed as though they -function- as an identical standard weapon/ammo type, and at later levels becomes masterwork in quality. However, it should not be treated as a physical weapon, so spells like Heat Metal or abilities like Disarm have no affect on it, though it should require concentration to maintain, and if broke the weapons/ammo disappear.

Noted, I'll add some wording in to accommodate this affect. I'll also be dedicating some more work soon, I've been super busy moving into my new place, so once I'm done, I'll be working on fleshing it out.


Good to have some free multiclass archetypes out there. ;)


There's some impressive work here!

One of my players would really like to run a druid/paladin. Ultimately, he'd want to use bits of the stonelord and menhir savant archetypes, making a menhir-lord, but I wonder if it would make sense to start with a combination of the base classes?


So, I've beem trying to do some work on the Psybolt, and I'm having difficulty thinking of how to implement Gun Training, Psychic Discipline, and Nimble. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Note; I don't actually want to add all three of those, I'm just having a hard time figuring out what the next step of making the MCA more complete.

Thoughts and comments?

- EK

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