More Bloodrager / Dragon Disciple questions, cuz I'm new (and maybe dumb)


Rules Questions


I've read a ton of posts about this, but I'm new enough that I'm not grasping the answers. Please help. And in doing so, please try to use small words for me (and no unexplained acronyms). I'm still learning the PFS system.

1) You need 5 levels of BR (Bloodrager) before you can take any levels of DD (Dragon Disciple) due to the requirement of Knowledge (arcana): 5 rank. Unless there is a way around the "1 rank per hit die" rule?

2) How exactly do the two classes "stack" (for lack of a better term)? Example:
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Level 1 (BR) gives Bloodline (Draconic); Bloodline power #1 (Claws); Bloodrage; Fast Movement
Level 2 (BR) gives Uncanny Dodge
Level 3 (BR) gives Blood Sanctuary
Level 4 (BR) gives Spell Casting; Blood Casting; Bloodline power #2 (Draconic Resistance, which Draconic bloodline says is gained at level 4 .... so far, so good); Eschew Materials
Level 5 (BR) gives Improved Uncanny Dodge
Level 6 (DD) gives .... confusion. It reads "If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained." My DD level is now 1, so does this mean:
Option 1: RAW (Read As Written) I gain Bloodline (Draconic) level 1 power (Claws) again, (because my DD level = sorcerer level = 1) which does not stack, so I gain nothing.
Option 2: RAI (Read As Intended) I gain Bloodline (Draconic) level 6 power (because DD level is 1 + BR level is 5 = bloodline level 6), but there is no bloodline power at level 6, so I gain nothing.

If Option 2 is the "approved" method, then 1 more level or either BR or DD gives me access to the spell Shield, and the next level of BR or DD gives me Breath Weapon, and increases my Claws and Draconic Resistance powers.

P.S. - I've seen people advise against going the BR/DD route. I have made no decisions. I am just trying to understand how things work together in PFS.

Thanks in advance for your most sympathetic helpfulness!


1. 5 levels of anything, but yes. Ranks are always a hard limit (and intended to be that way).

2. There's a FAQ for that. Option 2.


Yes, I've seen people link to the FAQ multiple times. For a new guy like me, learning the system, saying "yes it stacks" is virtually worthless. I need to know HOW that actually works, and since nobody else would break it down level by level, I had to do it .... exceptionally time consuming for a noob like me. My difficulty was compounded by the poorly written "Blood of Dragons" and the fact that everybody else was assuming (but not actually saying) to disregard the mechanics it dictated. Oh well .... </frustrated rant>

But anyways, so everybody is playing option 2, or basically NOT as written. Cool.

Still not sure what I'll do for a character, but I'm learning more every day.

Thanks for the answer.


You may not know since your new that the Dragon Disciple prestige class was written more than 15 years ago. The Bloodrager class however is much newer, written in the past 2+ years, so most of the references in the Dragon Disciple PrC (Prestige Class) don't take into account the Bloodrager since it did not exist when it was written. Hence why the FAQ clarifies their interaction.

If it helps at all, your Option 2 is correct as are the conclusion you draw from that example. Your 'read as intended' example is exactly what the FAQ says should happen with the combination your trying.

If you have any other questions about how things interact just post and I am sure the community will help.


Okay, let's rework the relevant ability here, taking the FAQ into account. For this, assuming levels in Bloodrager, as otherwise it works as 'normal'.

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer bloodrager levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer bloodrager type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer bloodrager unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer bloodrager gains spell slots of the spell's level.

And now to summarize: Levels in Dragon Disciple advance your Draconic Bloodrager bloodline as if they were Bloodrager levels. This includes your bloodrager bonus spells, provided you have the appropriate level of spells available (for more information on this see the Spells Per Day feature.)

And to answer your other question, yes you need 5 levels (not necessarily of Bloodrager, but might as well keep them there) and no there is not any way past the "one rank per level" limit. Skill Rank prereqs are a common hard limit for prestige classes. Another thing to note though, is that you would need Bloodrager 4 anyways in order to meet the spellcasting prerequisite, unless you took a level in Bard or Sorcerer or something.

As a final point, there's a few reasons people suggest not doing Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple, and the ones I can think of are as follow:

1) Your Bloodrage rounds per day doesn't scale while leveling Dragon Disciple, and since your bloodline abilities only work in a bloodrage that effectively neuters your access to your main thing.

2) Natural Armor doesn't stack, so the natural armor you're gaining from Dragon Disciple is going to go to waste when you do go into a bloodrage.


Shinigami02 wrote:

Okay, let's rework the relevant ability here, taking the FAQ into account. For this, assuming levels in Bloodrager, as otherwise it works as 'normal'.

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer bloodrager levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer bloodrager type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer bloodrager unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer bloodrager gains spell slots of the spell's level.

And now to summarize: Levels in Dragon Disciple advance your Draconic Bloodrager bloodline as if they were Bloodrager levels. This includes your bloodrager bonus spells, provided you have the appropriate level of spells available (for more information on this see the Spells Per Day feature.)

And to answer your other question, yes you need 5 levels (not necessarily of Bloodrager, but might as well keep them there) and no there is not any way past the "one rank per level" limit. Skill Rank prereqs are a common hard limit for prestige classes. Another thing to note though, is that you would need Bloodrager 4 anyways in order to meet the spellcasting prerequisite, unless you took a level in Bard or Sorcerer or something.

As a final point, there's a few reasons people suggest not doing Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple, and the ones I can think of are as follow:

1) Your Bloodrage rounds per day doesn't scale while leveling Dragon Disciple, and since your bloodline abilities only work in a bloodrage that effectively neuters your access to your main thing.

2) Natural Armor doesn't stack, so the natural armor you're gaining from Dragon...

To your number 2:

Natural Armor Increase (Ex): As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Dragon Disciple. These armor bonuses stack.

This is an increase to any natural armor increasing the base natural armor. This is not a "bonus" then.
Which means it would stack with:

Draconic Resistance (Ex): At 4th level, you gain resistance 5 against your energy type and a +1 natural armor bonus to AC. At 8th level, your energy resistance increases to 10 and your natural armor bonus increases to +2. At 16th level, your natural armor bonus increases to +4.


Yeah, Bloodrager into Dragon Disciple is actually really, really powerful.

With Extra Rage (and various other ways of getting more rounds like increasing Con, specific traits, FCB's, etc.), you'll have plenty of rounds of rage per day. The lack of full BAB does hurt a bit, but the d12 and increasing ability/natural armor bonuses with the advancement of spells and throwing in of some cool powers makes Bloodrager/DD quite powerful


bloodrager 11 rage is +6 con and str and free spell cast when entering rage. bab = 11. so they have +14 to hit for +3 SH or 4/5 TH damage and +33 hp while raging. will save 3+3 while raging.

bloodrager 5 DD 6 is +4 con and str when rage. bab = 9. permanent +4 str +2 con +2 Natural armor and HP is the same because of FCB bloodrager into HP is loss when gaining the d12 over the d10. So they have +13 to hit for +4 SH or 6 TH damage and +22 hp while raging. A permanent +11 to HP and +2 AC. will save 4+2 while raging

Bloodrager 7 DD 4 is +4 con and str when rage. bab = 10. permanent +4 str +2 Natural armor and HP is the same because of FCB bloodrager into HP is loss when gaining the d12 over the d10. So they have +14 to hit for +4 SH or 6 TH damage and +22 hp while raging. A permanent +2 AC. will save +4 +2 while raging.

dd6 is +2 ac and a little extra damage, for -1 to hit, no third iterative attack

dd4 is +2 ac and a little extra damage, for less HP while raging and not third iterative attack.

Shadow Lodge

With Mighty Bloodrage a 20th level bloodrager matches or exceeds the DD bonuses to Str/Con and will saves. It's also ahead by 3 BAB, DR, and spellcasting levels plus tireless rage and self-buffing as a free action when entering rage, and has more skills. The DD gets +3 Nat AC, blindsense, the bite, an extra breath weapon use, +10ft fly speed, and the ability to use Form of the Dragon when not raging. HP is equal if the Bloodrager spends its 10 extra FCB there.

Bloodrager/DD is a fine character concept but it's not actually more powerful than a simple Draconic Bloodrager. Really the Dragon Disciple's main advantages are being more reliable outside of rage, and the extra-powerful bite - which you can get with a 2 level dip.


A key thing about Dragon Disciple is that the "power" of a DD level depends on the type of spellcasting it's advancing. Bloodrager has very weak spellcasting, so Bloodrager spellcasting makes for a weak DD. Advancing levels of a pure spellcaster like Sorcerer makes for much more powerful DD levels - gaining buff spells like Heroism, Haste and Monstrous Physique faster is a huge, huge difference. Having looked at a lot of class combos, I don't think I'd use DD without advancing full spellcasting.

Bloodrager 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Disciple 4 with some Extra Rage is similar to a full Bloodrager with far more spellcasting power, but some combat drawbacks at earlier levels (the big one being when they pick up an iterative attack).

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