Incorporeal vs multiple damage types


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

In my PbP game, a magus has a corrosive blade and uses spell combat to cast Shocking Grasp. He is fighting an incorporeal monster. How do I determine damage?

A) Each damage type (weapon, acid, and shocking grasp) is added together and then the monster suffers 50% of the sum.

B) The weapon and acid are added together since they both stem from the weapon itself. The monster suffers 50% of that sum and also suffers 50% of Shocking Grasp damage.

C) The monster suffers 50% of each damage individually.

The reason for this question is the "always round down" rule. I know in terms of a single attack, this is not a big deal. Over the course of a campaign where incorporeal comes up fairly frequently, it can add up, and a single hp here or there can be the difference between a living opponent or a dead opponent (which matters in fight to the death instances).


I would say C because it isn't apart of the original weapon damage, it's in addition to.


same way weapon enchantments (shocking/flaming etc) aren't rolled separately the shocking grasp and anything else that triggers when u hit him is all added up and dealt at the same time as they all hit him at the exact moment the weapon strikes him. answer A


Ask your GM.

Many things aren't covered in the rules, so the GM has to decide on a ruling.

Liberty's Edge

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Different kind of damages, with potentially different kind of resistances, aren't added together.
Each separate kind of damage is halved separately.

@vhok
You add only the kinds of damage that share the kind of damage of the weapon, like precision damage and sneak attack, separate kinds of damage are kept separated.

Liberty's Edge

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Quantum Steve wrote:

Ask your GM.

Many things aren't covered in the rules, so the GM has to decide on a ruling.

Different sources, Steve, so you kept them separated.

One is the weapon, one is the flaming effect, one is shocking grasp.


my view point might be skewed as I have never played pathfinder in real life and only through fantasy grounds which does stuff like this automatically for the most part.


I believe the answer is B, for reasons you stated.

Quote:
Upon command, a corrosive weapon becomes slick with acid that deals an extra 1d6 points of acid damage on a successful hit. The acid does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

So, as I read that, the weapon deals Weapon Damage(eg 1d6)+ Modifying Ability Mod (eg +2 from Strength) + Enhancement Mod (eg +1 enhancement)+ Elemental Damage(1d6 acid, in this instance), all before halfing.

The spellstiked spell does it's damage separately, then is halved on it's own.

Actually, this is a very interesting question. let's take it one step further...

Let's say we make that weapon a +1 Corrosive Ghost Touch weapon...
In this instance, the whole weapon damage goes through (base damage, strength mod, enhancement, and elemental) as if it came from an incorporeal source due to Ghost Touch.
Now, does the spell get halved as it is from a corporeal source...I am inclined to say yes, but rules seem vague here.

Of course, the spell could be an Ectoplasmic Spell, in which case it would effect incorporeal creatures normally...


Doing the math, 1-6/2RD=1.666666
1-6/2RD+1-6/2RD=3.333333
2-12/2RD=3.25

So the verdict is do them separately and not worry about the slight increase in damage from doing it that way.


Your math is off: 1d6/2RD has an average of 1.5 (results are 0,1,1,2,2,3) and 2d6/2RD has an average of 3.25. So halving separately results in less damage (there is no way more rounding down could result in more damage).


Here is how we handle it:

Add up all the damage and halve that number. That is the ideally the target total damage your shooting for.

Halve each of the individual damage types and apply them. If that sum does not add up to the total you got in the previous step, then assume they take the difference as base weapon damage.

If the sum is more than the damage you get in the previous step reduce the base weapons damage by the difference.

Apply DR and any applicable energy resistance normally of course and don't forget the general rule about rider attacks.

Ideally it should not be more than 1-3 points you need to fidget with, if any.


Gilfalas wrote:
If the sum is more than the damage you get in the previous step

That's not possible. When rounding down, you lose 0.5 damage for each odd component (compared to keeping fractions) and you never gain anything. If the total is even, then you're not losing anything when adding before rounding. If the total is odd, then you're losing 0.5 damage when adding before rounding. And in that case, you have an odd number of odd components, so at least one.


Khudzlin wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
If the sum is more than the damage you get in the previous step
That's not possible. When rounding down, you lose 0.5 damage for each odd component (compared to keeping fractions) and you never gain anything. If the total is even, then you're not losing anything when adding before rounding. If the total is odd, then you're losing 0.5 damage when adding before rounding. And in that case, you have an odd number of odd components, so at least one.

So then don't do that part. Sorry was trying to be complete when too tired.


No problem. I'll even suggest a way to reduce the number of calculations needed (and still get the same result):
1) Calculate each component separately (weapon damage, each type of energy damage, etc.) before division
2) For each component other than weapon damage that is odd, add 1 to weapon damage (effectively move the point of damage that would be lost to rounding to weapon damage)
3) Divide and round each component
4) Apply relevant damage reduction or energy resistance to each component

By the way, how would you handle spells that deal multiple types of energy damage, but no other damage (with Elemental Spell, for instance)?


Khudzlin wrote:
Your math is off: 1d6/2RD has an average of 1.5 (results are 0,1,1,2,2,3) and 2d6/2RD has an average of 3.25. So halving separately results in less damage (there is no way more rounding down could result in more damage).

Not entirely true as any result of 0 damage results in 1 non-lethal damage. Granted undead are generally the incorporeal type and are immune to non-lethal, but you never do 0 damage, even if the non-lethal damage is ignored. (pg179 CRB)


Add them all up and halve the damage unless specific immunities come into play. I'd rather not slow down the game than worry about niggling fiddly bits.


nicholas storm wrote:
Not entirely true as any result of 0 damage results in 1 non-lethal damage. Granted undead are generally the incorporeal type and are immune to non-lethal, but you never do 0 damage, even if the non-lethal damage is ignored. (pg179 CRB)

Nonlethal damage is not equivalent to lethal damage, so I still wouldn't count the average of 1d6/2RD as 1.667.

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