wild shaping tiny fey ?

[jonhl1986]

if i had a tiny sized fey creature use wild shape into an allasaurus or some other huge creature what bonuses to stats should it get just from wild shape or also from going from tiny to huge ? also i don't know where size increase table is for stat buffs.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Table on the right. If you're not already medium or small, you need to first adjust your size to medium or small. Then you apply the bonuses from the spell.

As for the stat buffs after changing shape, those are whatever is listed in the spell. So for Huge you need Beast Shape III and that says "Huge animal: If the form you take is that of a Huge animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a -4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus."

[jonhl1986]

i don't know the size bonus modifications is the thing like what do i add from going to small or medium and then what do i add going to huge ?

[Bob Bob Bob]

You mean the Size Modifiers?

[jonhl1986]

im still confused all im seeing is bonuses going from tiny to smaller and only penalties for going larger when it should be getting a bonus to strength for going larger.

[Bob Bob Bob]

You know what, I'll just lay out the example you used.

Start with a tiny whatever, turning into a Huge animal with Wild Shape.

First you need to normalize it to small or medium, using the first table I linked. +4 Str -2 Dex, now (virtually) Small.

Then we look at Wild Shape, once you can turn into a Huge animal it functions as Beast Shape III. Beast Shape III says: "Huge animal: If the form you take is that of a Huge animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a -4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus." So +6 Str, -4 Dex, and +6 NA. You'll also gain the natural attacks, land speed, and any special abilities granted by Beast Shape III. What that is will depend on the animal in question. You will also lose all extraordinary or supernatural abilities that depend on form. Now Huge.

Your new modified stats are +10 Str, -6 Dex, +6 NA (I don't think this stacks with any natural armor you already have, as that is generally "dependent on form"). You will also have a -2 to your AC and attacks (instead of +2) and +2 to your CMB and CMD (instead of -2) for a net -4 to attacks and AC and +4 to CMB and CMD. This is because of size modifiers.

The first table is applied before any other steps. Polymorph spells are only designed for small or medium creatures, before other creatures can use them they have to have their stats adjusted to be (virtually) small or medium. Basically, a giant turning into itself shouldn't get an extra 8 Str.

[jonhl1986]

ok i thought it woulda been more after normalizing to small then going huge guess not. i tried doing this on hero lab but it didn't add bonus for going from tiny to huge for some reason just added in wild shape bonus.

[James Risner]

Report that as a bug to hero lab (missed bonuses from tiny to small).