squeezing beside teammates


Rules Questions


today we had 2 different problems with squeezing come into play.

1: we had 2 medium size allies standing with 1 normal 5 foot spot between them. I wanted to squeeze my large size wolf into that spot. the gm said I couldn't because I would be forcing squeezing onto 1 of the allies, however my interpretation of squeezing rule was that my wolf was now only taking up a 2x1 area and not even counting as being his normal 2x2 size. they also said another thing that might stop him is that you can't squeeze for no reason and only terrain can make you squeeze unless your just squeezing to walk past an ally and not stopping to fight while squeezed beside a teammate.

When a Large creature (which normally takes up 4 squares) squeezes into a space that's 1 square wide, the creature's miniature figure occupies 2 squares, centered on the line between the 2 squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.

2: same game different guy. paladin mounted up on his griffon mount had to squeeze into a 5foot passage. gm said because by the rules he counted as occupying all the spaces his mount is he was now squeezing also. we thought it wouldn't be a problem as he is actually only a 1x1 square normally.

A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat.

hoping for an official source someone could link so prove 1 way or the other. no one really cares how it goes we just want to know how to play it. we like to play as close to raw as possible.


Combat wrote:

Squeezing

In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn't as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.

When a Large creature (which normally takes up 4 squares) squeezes into a space that's 1 square wide, the creature's miniature figure occupies 2 squares, centered on the line between the 2 squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.

A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can't end its movement in an occupied square.

To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space's width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can't attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

The rules mention trying to squeeze into an area not as wide as your actual width. I can see how it could be interpreted as needing a physical area that's narrow enough, but at the same time, the space between your two allies is certainly not as wide as your wolf is. I would be very much inclined to go with the latter, allowing the wolf in example 1 to squeeze in exchange for the squeezing penalties.

2 is a lot trickier, and there is going to be less rules support since mounted combat is very vague on what affects both mount and rider. This one is going to be very much a GM call, since I don't believe there's a tell-all FAQ to give a RAW answer.


ya that's why I am posting here. I couldn't find anything myself faq or otherwise.


Bump before bed. Still looking for people's opinions

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I read squeeze as a method to move through not a state of being.
So you could squeeze through but you couldn't park your wolf squeezed there.

So Ask you GM is the answer.


One cannot end movement in an occupied square. Only if there are two size categories between creatures can they occupy the same space. Otherwise, the squeezing would be in effect for movement through the squeezing area. Movement would end in the unoccupied space and only if covered by movement.


This is why we don't use mats or anything with squares on them. We use the "theater of the mind" method and have for decades. You can squeeze two people into a 5 foot wide area if they're a normal sized human or similar creature. It's tight, but it can be done.


Brother Fen wrote:
One cannot end movement in an occupied square. Only if there are two size categories between creatures can they occupy the same space. Otherwise, the squeezing would be in effect for movement through the squeezing area. Movement would end in the unoccupied space and only if covered by movement.

I'm not certain what your trying say. I'll only point out that according to squeezing rules you only occupy a 2x1 square so your not ending movement in a teammates space.

Also to anyone out there is there a rule that says you can't squeeze voluntarily?


I'm sorry, there's no such thing as a 2x1. Squares are 5' unless otherwise marked.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
This is why we don't use mats or anything with squares on them. We use the "theater of the mind" method and have for decades. You can squeeze two people into a 5 foot wide area if they're a normal sized human or similar creature. It's tight, but it can be done.

Combat deals in abstractions, so even in the theater of the mind, the space being occupied would be divided to differentiate between the two. We use the theater of the mind and the combat mat. Best of both worlds so badwrongfun to you! :p


Brother Fen wrote:
I'm sorry, there's no such thing as a 2x1. Squares are 5' unless otherwise marked.

...............................yes................ 2x1 is 2 5foot squares....... just like 2x2 is 4 5foot squares. of course there is a 2x1

The Concordance

James Risner wrote:

I read squeeze as a method to move through not a state of being.

So you could squeeze through but you couldn't park your wolf squeezed there.

So Ask you GM is the answer.

The squeezing rules state into or through which suggests you can end your movement in a tight space, whether it's a hallway or between creatures.

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