2016 US Election


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CBDunkerson wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

Why do I bring this up, just read a story about a navy guy who took pictures while on a submarine. They had classified areas on them. After he saw them realized they had a classified area, so didn't send them to friends like he was going to. Didn't publish them, but kept them and didn't realize that was against the rules.

He had NO intent to have them sent off and no intent to do wrong. These are a FEW photos of the same area...NOT a bunch of emails specifically talking about multitudes of classified information.

He's threatened with jail time for a few years.

Clinton...get's off home free.

Gosh I hate how the elite are privileged and get away scot free with things that everyone else would go to jail for.

Gosh I hate how there is an alternate conservative universe where everything is radically different from our own reality.

Few details of the case from this reality;
1: He took photos of a classified propulsion system (not just random areas of the sub) he knew he wasn't supposed to
2: When he learned of the investigation he destroyed evidence
3: There is some evidence that he meant to sell the photos to foreign agencies

Completely different circumstances than the Clinton e-mails.

First thing is that with part 1 he already knew he wasn't supposed to take the pictures - it's supposedly part of the training you get before sub duty. And his pictures, when put together, gave a complete view of the entire system.

Part 2 is rather important, I remember reading that the investigators found pieces of his smashed computer in the woods behind his house.

He's already done worse things than Clinton (according to legal precedent) even if the third point is complete bunk. I remember reading about this the day after Comey gave his review.


CBDunkerson wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

Why do I bring this up, just read a story about a navy guy who took pictures while on a submarine. They had classified areas on them. After he saw them realized they had a classified area, so didn't send them to friends like he was going to. Didn't publish them, but kept them and didn't realize that was against the rules.

He had NO intent to have them sent off and no intent to do wrong. These are a FEW photos of the same area...NOT a bunch of emails specifically talking about multitudes of classified information.

He's threatened with jail time for a few years.

Clinton...get's off home free.

Gosh I hate how the elite are privileged and get away scot free with things that everyone else would go to jail for.

Gosh I hate how there is an alternate conservative universe where everything is radically different from our own reality.

Few details of the case from this reality;
1: He took photos of a classified propulsion system (not just random areas of the sub) he knew he wasn't supposed to
2: When he learned of the investigation he destroyed evidence
3: There is some evidence that he meant to sell the photos to foreign agencies

Completely different circumstances than the Clinton e-mails.

From what I've learned from friends who have clearances...and from cases I've worked on in regards to clearance problems occasionally...

1) In order to get clearance, you are briefed several times on what is or is not classified. The idea that Clinton didn't know what was or was not classified is a bunch of BS, since every Classified item has the words of it's classification on it supposedly.

2: And Clinton destroyed HOW MANY EMAILS and claimed they couldn't retrieve them, and even the ones they turned over they didn't until they had time to get rid of a LOT of emails that no one has seen. That's destroying a LOT more than just a computer.

3 - The ONLY reason Clinton was not charged was because they said she had no intent. No intent to do what? She willingly SENT those emails with classified information on them to other people on an UNSECURE server. That's not selling, that's actually GIVING away the information.

If any of my friends had done anything close to what she had done, they'd have gotten FAR worse punishments.

Anyone in the community that I've met who have talked about the classified information have hated what Clinton got a pass on, simply because if it had been ANYONE among them, they'd have several years of prison time at a minimum.

I read this case and felt it actually DOES point out that they treated Clinton a LOT differently then they would anyone else with a classified clearance.

Silver Crusade

TheJeff, HRC's server contained state department messages that were Top secret and SAP Classification that were parts of email chains between HRC and her aids. If you doubt that listen to the FBI Directors testimony before Trey Goudy's committee.

The SVR, Vivak, the Chinese Intelligence service and the North Koreans routinely troll cyberspace for unsecured government servers to find intelligence.

The Iranian nuclear Scientist that was hung last week that was a CIA asset was discussed on HRC's unsecured server that most likely led to his death.


Got a link or just more bullshit. :-)


GreyWolfLord wrote:
From what I've learned from friends who have clearances...and from cases I've worked on in regards to clearance problems occasionally...

You are clearly not a legal professional.

Quote:
1) In order to get clearance, you are briefed several times on what is or is not classified. The idea that Clinton didn't know what was or was not classified is a bunch of BS, since every Classified item has the words of it's classification on it supposedly.

Nope.

Quote:
2: And Clinton destroyed HOW MANY EMAILS and claimed they couldn't retrieve them, and even the ones they turned over they didn't until they had time to get rid of a LOT of emails that no one has seen. That's destroying a LOT more than just a computer.

And none of that is improper - to say nothing of whether they're illegal - if the emails were personal in nature.

Quote:
3 - The ONLY reason Clinton was not charged was because they said she had no intent. No intent to do what? She willingly SENT those emails with classified information on them to other people on an UNSECURE server. That's not selling, that's actually GIVING away the information.

If you have to ask the question "No intent to do what?", you are not properly equipped to have this discussion.

Quote:
If any of my friends had done anything close to what she had done, they'd have gotten FAR worse punishments.

No, they wouldn't have.

Quote:
Anyone in the community that I've met who have talked about the classified information have hated what Clinton got a pass on, simply because if it had been ANYONE among them, they'd have several years of prison time at a minimum.

No, they wouldn't have.

Quote:
I read this case and felt it actually DOES point out that they treated Clinton a LOT differently then they would anyone else with a classified clearance.

Your reading of the case and your feelings do not match reality.


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Lou Diamond, you're running on less than zero credibility at the moment. Maybe take a break from spreading misinformation, and engage in some meaningful conversation on this topic instead. Your last two noteworthy contributions to the topic of politics here were victim-blaming protestors for being the targets of violence, and claiming that the Clinton Foundation's tax returns were never released.


Scott Betts wrote:
Lou Diamond, you're running on less than zero credibility at the moment. Maybe take a break from spreading misinformation, and engage in some meaningful conversation on this topic instead. Your last two noteworthy contributions to the topic of politics here were victim-blaming protestors for being the targets of violence, and claiming that the Clinton Foundation's tax returns were never released.

He became rather silent on that last topic after I posted the link for that info.


That's what we call hit-and-run behavior. Low effort posts containing misinformation, and he never returns to defend his claims. It's just on to the next imagined scandal or controversy. It isn't about what's right, what's true, or what's defensible. It's about forcing reactions.


The right has exceeded critical mass for cognitive dissonance and it's starting to show.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

How credible of a site is infowars?


...From my knowledge of it, not credible.

*Does a quick search*

Me: Does Infowa-

Google: Does Infowars support Trump?

Me: ..............Yes. That's what I was going to ask.

(The answer is very firmly yes, by the way.)


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Kryzbyn wrote:
How credible of a site is infowars?

Alex Jones? Not at all.

Proud conspiracy theorist.

What's he up to now?


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I think he tried to eat Cenk Uygur, Jeff.


But he has the BEST conspiracies


CrystalSeas wrote:
But he has the BEST conspiracies

No that would Pat Robertson.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
But he has the BEST conspiracies
No that would Pat Robertson.

David Icke!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

OMG lizard ppl ftw.

Infowars had a bunch of stuff about HRCs health...


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
But he has the BEST conspiracies
No that would Pat Robertson.
David Icke!

Nah. I'm pretty sure the idea of a gay demonic disease afflicting the USA for not following God is more out there...

Liberty's Edge

GreyWolfLord wrote:
1) In order to get clearance, you are briefed several times on what is or is not classified. The idea that Clinton didn't know what was or was not classified is a bunch of BS, since every Classified item has the words of it's classification on it supposedly.

Apparently you didn't read the link thejeff provided you earlier... or you'd know that the e-mails in question WERE NOT properly marked classified. Rather, they just had a single letter 'C' marking a section classified (incorrectly according to the State Dept) without the appropriate header.

Quote:
2: And Clinton destroyed HOW MANY EMAILS and claimed they couldn't retrieve them, and even the ones they turned over they didn't until they had time to get rid of a LOT of emails that no one has seen. That's destroying a LOT more than just a computer.

Which was done legally through normal review with attorneys. Very different thing than secretly smashing a laptop in the woods behind your house.

Quote:
3 - The ONLY reason Clinton was not charged was because they said she had no intent. No intent to do what? She willingly SENT those emails with classified information on them to other people on an UNSECURE server. That's not selling, that's actually GIVING away the information.

No intent to do anything wrong... because none of the documents she sent were properly marked classified. It isn't clear that any of them really WERE classified, but even if they were it IS clear that Clinton wouldn't necessarily have known that.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The "extremely careless" bit still doesn't sit well with me, but I can concede she did nothing illegal.


Let's not get too carried away on the conspiracies. As fun as speculating on the best ones can be, I suspect the staff would prefer that we not make fun of anybody for their beliefs, no matter how incorrect we may feel they are. ^^

Speaking of discussing issues, though, I'm kind of wondering if the Trump campaign is capable of going a single day without making some new controversy. They've been remarkably consistent about that ever since the convention...


Rednal,

Some how I think the staff here will forgive me for mentioning the crazy of Pat Robertson and making fun of his delusions.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
The "extremely careless" bit still doesn't sit well with me, but I can concede she did nothing illegal.

This.


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captain yesterday wrote:
Got a link or just more b%!##!!!. :-)

Here's your link. The White House scandal where private servers were used to illegally convey top secret information. Only to have the emails allegedly mysteriously deleted.


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Oh come on, is that all you have.


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Seriously, can anyone explain how hillary's email problems make trump a viable alternative?

Anyone?

Bueler?


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Sometimes I wonder how Trump has so many supporters. Then I remember I live in a country where 49% of people believe "reverse discrimination" against whites is as big of a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities. http://www.prri.org/research/prri-brookings-immigration-report/

Sovereign Court

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Seriously, can anyone explain how hillary's email problems make trump a viable alternative?

Anyone?

Bueler?

This is what I'm wondering. Trump seems to be asking about nukes and people are upset that Hilary might have mishandled a few emails. Priorities people.

Sovereign Court

Spastic Puma wrote:

Sometimes I wonder how Trump has so many supporters. Then I remember I live in a country where 49% of people believe "reverse discrimination" against whites is as big of a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities.

Link

Fixed the link for you


captain yesterday wrote:
Oh come on, is that all you have.

No, but I figure it is worth bringing back up when people keep bringing up the Hillary emails.


thunderspirit wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
The "extremely careless" bit still doesn't sit well with me, but I can concede she did nothing illegal.
This.

Pretty much. Shady but not illegal. Of course, when the House of Representatives is willing to go over everything they can manage to find with a fine tooth comb looking for anything they can get, I might not want much oversight either.


CBDunkerson wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
1) In order to get clearance, you are briefed several times on what is or is not classified. The idea that Clinton didn't know what was or was not classified is a bunch of BS, since every Classified item has the words of it's classification on it supposedly.

Apparently you didn't read the link thejeff provided you earlier... or you'd know that the e-mails in question WERE NOT properly marked classified. Rather, they just had a single letter 'C' marking a section classified (incorrectly according to the State Dept) without the appropriate header.

Quote:
2: And Clinton destroyed HOW MANY EMAILS and claimed they couldn't retrieve them, and even the ones they turned over they didn't until they had time to get rid of a LOT of emails that no one has seen. That's destroying a LOT more than just a computer.

Which was done legally through normal review with attorneys. Very different thing than secretly smashing a laptop in the woods behind your house.

Quote:
3 - The ONLY reason Clinton was not charged was because they said she had no intent. No intent to do what? She willingly SENT those emails with classified information on them to other people on an UNSECURE server. That's not selling, that's actually GIVING away the information.
No intent to do anything wrong... because none of the documents she sent were properly marked classified. It isn't clear that any of them really WERE classified, but even if they were it IS clear that Clinton wouldn't necessarily have known that.

I typed up a whole lot of stuff regarding my experiences with clearances and my legal experiences with stuff like that, but in the end, decided it doesn't matter. Plus, my experiences in to what or what is not is required for clearances, and what is done when one has one, isn't really all that necessary, especially since I don't have a clearance and my experiences are in dealing with those who have had them. It doesn't really bear relevance.

My main point was dealing with friends who have had their anger expressed in regards to how injust the system seems with the elite vs. the normal person.

Overall, I think there are other cases where we can see similarities in regards to some of the things which affected Clinton.

The biggest example of this would be Tom Brady's Cellphone. Legally, they can suspect him of doing things but without evidence of it, it gets a LOT more tricky. Did he have evidence on those phones. In truth, we don't know. However, it makes people really suspect that he did.. He might have had nothing on them, but it raises suspicion...

Of course, with Goodells powers, that really didn't matter now...did it. They were going to get Brady no matter what the evidence said or didn't say... (of course that's another thread entirely).

In fact, if one looks, there are a LOT of parallels between what happened with the Brady investigation and the Clinton investigation in some ways.

But, the most infuriating is when I have friends (and I think many of us probably have friends who have clearances...or at least I have several) who actually have those security clearances talk, and say if they did the same thing Clinton did, they'd currently be in jail...no questions asked. That's nothing to do with me or any cases I worked on in the past, or anything with my brushes with the confidential and classified.

Instead, it is merely my friends (who DO have clearances) and their outrage at how differently those in positions of power are treated compared to those who are the "normal" people in military and government.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Seriously, can anyone explain how hillary's email problems make trump a viable alternative?

Anyone?

Bueler?

I never argued that.

Mine was simply anger and disgust at what she did.

I actually noted that she was a better choice than Trump when I started this entire discussion about the email.

Mine was more about how we should have had Bernie as a candidate.

It didn't put one iota towards supporting Trump.

I don't even know how Trump is going to handle a clearance, and wonder if a President can go to jail for blatantly breaking it like everyone else?

Silver Crusade

Since my last post I was watching the Olympics and sleeping because I am on pain meds because had a tooth extracted today.

I was just watching one of the members of the house oversight committee and he said that there were at least 22 emails that were SAP that the committee has not been able to see since they were almost completely redacted.

Perhaps a select Committee of the house and senate intelligence committees and the heads of the house and senate oversight
committees should be formed to look at the e-mail issue and lay it to rest once and for all. IMO if those SAP emails were on the server HRC should be forced to withdraw from the race by the democrats and put Bernie on the ticket.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Lou,
Given people are still talking about Benghazi even though that was investigated to death and found nothing to be wrong with her conduct, I doubt another ten inquiries would be enough. As thejeff said, right now any Republican call for an investigation into Clinton is "boy who cried wolf" stuff. She's been investigated for more than 2 decades and bugger all has been found. She's either no more guilty than any other politician, or she's a criminal mastermind who's able to evade all areas of government and the FBI leaving less trace than a high level rogue with a ring of invisibility. One of these things is a little more likely than the other.


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Lou Diamond wrote:


Perhaps a select Committee of the house and senate intelligence committees ....

Dude, leave over.

First off, they've gone through about 800 hearings and gotten nothing. You're not going to find anything anyone that doesn't already hold an irrational hate for her is going to care about.

Secondly, even if she the email was to her reptilian overlords, at this point reptilian overlords that have a vested interest in not destroying the country are still better than a Trump Pence presidency.


Paul Watson wrote:

Lou,

Given people are still talking about Benghazi even though that was investigated to death and found nothing to be wrong with her conduct, I doubt another ten inquiries would be enough. As thejeff said, right now any Republican call for an investigation into Clinton is "boy who cried wolf" stuff. She's been investigated for more than 2 decades and bugger all has been found. She's either no more guilty than any other politician, or she's a criminal mastermind who's able to evade all areas of government and the FBI leaving less trace than a high level rogue with a ring of invisibility. One of these things is a little more likely than the other.

and both are qualifications for office..

Dark Archive

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CBDunkerson wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
I had heard the connection between Yanukovych and Manfort mentioned in passing on NPR, but didn't dare mention it here for fear of undermining my own scorn for conspiracy theorists. Thank you!

At this point the real conspiracy theorists are starting to look for the super-sekrit conspiracy hidden behind the seemingly obvious conspiracy;

Ivanka Trump & Wendy Deng vacationing together in Croatia... really a front for the Trump sleeper agent family to make contact with their Russian handlers! You heard it here first.

Pshaw. Ivanka is being held hostage by Putin, to encourage Trump to fly right and not throw this race.

'You vill become President, or your daughter comes home, in multiple boxes! Mwa-ha-ha!'

'Sure Vlad, just a sec... <Get Liam Neeson on the phone! What do you mean it was just a movie?>'


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Lizard overlords 2016!

Because we need a reality based candidate.


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Elect Ra, in 2016!

Kittens and oppressive slavery for all!!


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Kittens and internet, the 21st century version of the Roman maxim. ;)


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Lou Diamond wrote:

Since my last post I was watching the Olympics and sleeping because I am on pain meds because had a tooth extracted today.

I was just watching one of the members of the house oversight committee and he said that there were at least 22 emails that were SAP that the committee has not been able to see since they were almost completely redacted.

Perhaps a select Committee of the house and senate intelligence committees and the heads of the house and senate oversight
committees should be formed to look at the e-mail issue and lay it to rest once and for all. IMO if those SAP emails were on the server HRC should be forced to withdraw from the race by the democrats and put Bernie on the ticket.

Oh, look. Another hit and run post that drops a rumor, suggests insane consequences, and does nothing to address the criticism his last post received.

Shocking.


The Olympics are very important, okay!!


I'm hopeful to eventually figure out what all his bullshit acronyms stand for.


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Just for the fun of it

NYT wrote:

The top secret emails lent credence to criticism by Mrs. Clinton’s rivals in the presidential race of her handling of classified information while she was secretary of state from 2009 to 2013. It is against the law for officials to discuss classified information on unclassified networks used for routine business or on private servers, and the F.B.I. is looking into whether such information was mishandled.

The State Department said it had “upgraded” the classification of the emails at the request of the nation’s intelligence agencies. Mr. Kirby said that none of the emails had been marked at any level of classification at the time they were sent through Mrs. Clinton’s computer server.

Mrs. Clinton’s campaign responded forcefully, saying that the process of reviewing the emails “appears to be over-classification run amok.” A spokesman, Brian Fallon, said all of the emails should be released.

“We understand that these emails were likely originated on the State Department’s unclassified system before they were ever shared with Secretary Clinton, and they have remained on the department’s unclassified system for years,” Mr. Fallon said.

Liberty's Edge

captain yesterday wrote:
I'm hopeful to eventually figure out what all his b@$@~+%* acronyms stand for.

SAP stands for Special Access Program. It refers, in this context, to information not only classified as Top Secret, but that is also related to a project or program with special rules regarding who can access it beyond just having a TS clearance and a need to know.


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So HRC must stand for Huge Republican Conspiracy.


Paul Watson wrote:

Lou,

Given people are still talking about Benghazi even though that was investigated to death and found nothing to be wrong with her conduct, I doubt another ten inquiries would be enough. As thejeff said, right now any Republican call for an investigation into Clinton is "boy who cried wolf" stuff. She's been investigated for more than 2 decades and bugger all has been found. She's either no more guilty than any other politician, or she's a criminal mastermind who's able to evade all areas of government and the FBI leaving less trace than a high level rogue with a ring of invisibility. One of these things is a little more likely than the other.

Well, we did already decide up thread that Hillary Clinton is secretly one of America's most prolific serial killers.

So there's that...

Sovereign Court

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Seriously, I don't like Hilary, but if she got away with all the stuff she's accused of then she's clearly a woman who can get shit done.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I'm hopeful to eventually figure out what all his b+@~+%~# acronyms stand for.

You need to grok the essential Trumpiness of his statement.

For those who don't understand Trumpiness, and it's importance in this campaign, I've included this link.

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