Cleric spell suggestions for a Shaman


Advice


The shaman can grab some spells from the cleric list with the human FCB, but I'm not seeing a lot of good spells they don't already have. Does anyone have some good cleric spells they like to pickup on their human shaman?

Grand Lodge

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1 - Fallback Strategy, Watchful Eye, Divine Favor
2 - Shield Other, Grace, (Holy Ice Weapon if you're a Waves Shaman)
3 - Invisibility Purge, Resist Energy(Communal), Prayer
4 - Freedom of Movement, Blessing of Fervor, (Spiritual Ally if you took Spirit Guardian)
5 - Air Walk(Communal), Wall of Stone.

Summon Monster is often a good choice also if there's a specific monster that's useful.


Do you primarily buff your friends, debuff your enemies, or are you a blaster or a buff-up-and-enter-battle type? Shamans can be any of these. Burning Disarm, Divine Favor, Liberating Command, Murderous Command or Touch of Bloodletting could all be good for the right shaman but not for all - and that's just first level spells.


Careful choosing is key... AON is great for seeing all the options, although these days its really slow to update.

Remember the cleric spells chosen can only be used in the Spirit Magic slots. You have to take the Water Spirit hex to get round it.

Add one spell from the cleric spell list that isn’t on the shaman spell list to the list of spells the shaman knows. This spell must be at least 1 level below the highest spell level the shaman can cast.

Grand Lodge

I categorically disagree with Harleequin. Shaman do not have a "spells known" mechanic that would et you spontaneously cast these with Spirit Magic slots.

The intent is pretty clearly to add them to the Shaman's spell list. The only reason they wouldn't be is This "Spells Known" FAQ which says "Adding a spell to your list of spells known does not add it to the spell list of that class unless they are added by a class feature of that same class." It's not 100% clear whether FCB are class features, but I think they pretty clearly are.

IMHO, it *is* 100% clear that Spirit Magic only lets you cast the spells available from your Spirit(s), and not any random "spells known" you might have.

Talk with your GM if you're unsure. :(


Why would "list of spells the Shaman knows" restrict a spell to a spirit slot? Spirit slots are specifically for casting spells granted by the Shaman's spirits. For casters that prepare spells, "knowing" a spell means that they are able to prepare it.

Edit: oh and for spells, Instrument of Agony, Admonishing Ray and Aura of Doom are all interesting choices - Admonishing Ray with a metamagic trait and some metamagic options can be pretty interesting...


I could of course be wrong.... but it says that the Spirit Magic slots are a Shamans spontaneous casting slots and thus represent the selection of spells that a "shaman knows"...

The FCB adds spells... to "the list of spells the shaman knows"

Plus, I was surfing around the other day and came across the following guide by someone very knowledgeable and regarded....Shaman Handbook

Like I said I could be wrong but it seems clear IMO. In particular it makes an excellent point regarding all Clerics and Druids running around with Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) for an Arcane Bond to cast their entire spell list spontaneously..... Clerics and Druids do not "know" their lists.

You have to remember that Shamans are a hybrid class... a mix of prepared and spontaneous.


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I think the intention was to add them to the list of spells known and available to prepare, but concede the strict RAW is confusing.

As for spell choices, Markiv offers some very good options. Playing a melee shaman right now, who also doubles as the primary condition removal character for the team, and general problem solver. I picked:

1. Divine Favor
2. Defending Bone
2. Grace
2. Cleromancy
3. Invisibility Purge
4. Death Ward

I'm also looking at taking Freedom of Movement, Fickle Winds, and Cleanse in the next few levels.

Grand Lodge

This is happens a lot in pathfinder. "Spells Known" is a mechanical phrase but spells the shaman knows is a flavor phrase not found in any other hard text.

Here is an example of knowing spells with out spells "spells known"

"Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell he already knows"


"Known" spells are not a specific function of spontaneous casters; for example, Wizards prepare their spells from those spells which they "know". Spirit magic itself does not reference any kind of 'spells known' mechanic, but states that spells are chosen based on (current) spirit choices.

Properly speaking, Shamans are 'prepared casters' as per their "Spell Casting" class ability entry. A function that adds to a Shaman's spellcasting would naturally be in reference to their core, proper spellcasting ability unless specifically stated otherwise.


The FCB has nothing to do with Spirit Magic, in fact they CAN'T be cast with Spirit Magic slots.

Spirit Magic never invokes Spells Known, it never uses the word "known", period, it says:
"A shaman can spontaneously cast a limited number of spells... from the list of spells granted by her spirits"
The FCB doesn't reference Spirit Magic or the list of spells granted by her spirits, therefore it doesn't interact with that.
If it was intended to do so, it would explicitly reference Spirit Magic, not "Spells Known" which Spirit Magic doesn't use.

Shamans don't have Spells Known in any sense, even for the Spirit Magic capacity, they aren't affected by "Spells Known" mechanics.
(e.g. Mnemonic Vestment, Rings/Pages of Spell Knowledge, Expanded Arcana)
Spirit Magic is like a combination of Domain Slots and Spontaneous Substitution (with multiple options eventually via Wandering)
Like Clerics with Spontaneous Substitution, they do not count as Spontaneous Casters.

"Spells the Shaman knows" does not reference the specific mechanic of "Spells Known", but follows the pattern for how other prepared casters refer to all spells they can prepare and cast. Flipping out because "know" (but not Spells Known) appears in Shaman FCB has about as much basis as importing Spells Known mechanics to Wizard, Cleric, pretty much every Prepared Caster. Yes, the wording diffierence is minute and confusing, but that is a well established feature of the game that should be well understood.


I disagree and the fact that such a key point hasn't been officially clarified does at the very least give significant ambiguity.

Like the author of the Shaman Handbook said... if it isnt the case then the door is wide open for clerics and druids to grab an Arcane Bond via Eldritch Heritage....

Grand Lodge

This is 100% addressed by "spells know" specific mechanical words and "spells the shaman knows" non mechanical language. So the door is not wide open at all. One is maybe slightly ambiguous and the other goes against the reading of the the rules.


A legalistic argument about 'spells known' relating to spontaneous casting and so to spirit magic doesn't hold up for two reasons. For one thing, the spirit magic ability does not reference a 'spells known' mechanic and doesn't function like it had one. Also, a Witch is an example of a prepared caster that adds to their 'list of spells known' (by patron), so it's hardly wrong to read 'list of spells known' as ' spell list' for a Shaman.

Besides, it's a colossal leap to read that FCB text and take away the idea that they intended it to work with spirit magic instead of the class's proper spellcasting, but wrote it to never mention anything about spirit magic whatsoever. It's not really credible.


I'd be interested in hearing more feedback on OP's original question, namely good spells to pick up off the cleric list for a human shaman.

As a melee shaman, I'm considering Righteous Might at 5th as an alternative to Fickle Winds or Cleanse. Might be a better call, but I tend to like to have strong defensive options, and I'm thinking about a quickened divine favour for offense at that level anyways (action economy has become a big factor as the multitude of character options and abilities has expanded ).

Grand Lodge

Past thread

Some stuff on here may help

Grand Lodge

Yeah, I don't like that Shaman Guide. Particularly the suggestion that most shaman want to take a Prestige class after 6th. Some of the 8th level Greater Spirit Magic abilities are character defining (Battle's Bane and Heaven's See in Darkness.) Many hexes double in power at 8th (Evil Eye going to -4, Misfortune duration doubles, Weapon Specialization for Battle, etc.) And all hex DC scale only with your Shaman level, so they taper off quickly if you switch to a different class (even a prestige class the continues your spellcasting.)

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