Ring of Shield - Cost?


Advice

Dark Archive

So the Ring of Blinking costs 27k on the market; broken down, that is 3 (spell level) * 5 (caster level) * 1800 (cast on demand). Blink would last for 5 rounds, as though cast by a level 5 wizard, if I'm reading right.

In the same way, could you create a Ring of Shield that would cast the shield spell on demand for 1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) * 1800 (cast on demand) for a total of 1,800 gold, allowing the shield spell to last 1 minute per use?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Given that a Ring of Force Shield costs 8,500 gp and only gives you a +2 shield bonus, your ring would seem to be hugely underpriced.


yep. first rule of item creation is to find a similar item, not use the formulae.

Ring of Force Shield is a similar item, and it costs waaaay more than your proposal. Therefore, bad idea.


Using the chart to build custom magic items is fraught with potential balance issues.

Pay more attention to the line above the chart that says:

"Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values."

Edit:

Also, GMs need to keep a super close eye on custom item creation. In my experience, players quite often want to use custom item creation to create items that effectively duplicate the abilities of existing items at a fraction of the cost.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Cavall wrote:
Is it underpriced? He's put on a one minute limit.

Which almost every single fight will be less than. Its effectively unlimited aside from the round he would take to cast it


Almost this exact thing was discussed pretty thoroughly here a few weeks back:

Constant Shield Item Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Regardless of the comparable effect ruling, any time you're looking at using a level 1 spell in an item, it should go through extreme scrutiny. The quadratic scaling is pretty appropriate for any other level, but for many level 1 spells it's just a no-go.

Level 1 spells by default have no multiplier on the base item cost, due to caster level and spell level both being... well, 1. On top of that, there's a lot of level 1 spells built with potent, non-scaling effects - Shield, Mage Armor, True Strike.

Going up to even level 2 multiplies the cost by six. That's already an actual investiment than the 1-2k for toys that emulate such core spells.

Dark Archive

What if the item could only be used once every 10 minutes? In this way, you couldn't keep it up all the time, and instead would need to waste a standard action at the start of combat if you wanted it to be in effect.

Would that balance the cost? It would be little different from someone UMDing a wand for a little more than double the cost of a wand.


Weables wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Is it underpriced? He's put on a one minute limit.
Which almost every single fight will be less than. Its effectively unlimited aside from the round he would take to cast it

Yes I saw he wants it more than once a day.

Dark Archive

Cavall wrote:
Weables wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Is it underpriced? He's put on a one minute limit.
Which almost every single fight will be less than. Its effectively unlimited aside from the round he would take to cast it
Yes I saw he wants it more than once a day.

Wrong thread? :-3

Sovereign Court

GhostwheelX wrote:

What if the item could only be used once every 10 minutes? In this way, you couldn't keep it up all the time, and instead would need to waste a standard action at the start of combat if you wanted it to be in effect.

Would that balance the cost? It would be little different from someone UMDing a wand for a little more than double the cost of a wand.

Yes - but UMD has the character cost of ranks of UMD.

I'm always dubious of custom magic gear, and this item is an example of why.

Dark Archive

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Yes - but UMD has the character cost of ranks of UMD.

I'm always dubious of custom magic gear, and this item is an example of why.

What if it was once an hour? Do you think that would be satisfactory?


GhostwheelX wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Weables wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Is it underpriced? He's put on a one minute limit.
Which almost every single fight will be less than. Its effectively unlimited aside from the round he would take to cast it
Yes I saw he wants it more than once a day.
Wrong thread? :-3

How is it the wrong thread to say "on demand" is more than once a day? I saw the wording and changed my mind.


you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

Edit
I mean really compare the the spell to these items.
Spell +4 shield bonus = +2 heavy shield give you the same bonus

Spell does not require in hands to use and does not interfere with spell casting, standard action to activate = animated +2 shield bonus animated is move action to activate to perform the same function the spell but only last 4 rounds not a full minute

Spell is a force effect and applies to incorporeal creatures attacks = to +3 armor property of ghost touch

Spell absorbs all magic missiles > then brooch only takes in 101 point of damage of missiles.

Spell not items slots > items slots required to emulate this effect is 2.

the what you are seeing and run into this another example of this aspect of the falcon and bracers of falcon aim and it's most recent nerf. is that some 1st levels should not be 1st levels spells. but for legacy reason they remained at that level of spell.

Dark Archive

Ah, didn't see that you had deleted your earlier message and then quoted something someone had referenced to the deleted message, thus I thought you were quoting a different thread and had posted in the wrong thread.

Deleting messages makes things confusing :-3

Dark Archive

KainPen wrote:

you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

What do you think of my earlier suggestion of this being used at most once an hour before it has to recharge?


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

1) why not use the existing Ring of Force Shield?

2) why not use Bracers of Armor +4?

3) why not have the player just buy a wand of shield?

It is unlikely that you will find sufficient answers to all 3 questions.

Even if you want to skip the "price it like some other similar item" and just jump strait to the table, you are still pricing it wrong. The table already tells you that this item, since it gives you a "other" bonus to AC, it should be 2500 x (bonus^2). So 40,000gp.

This comes up ever few weeks. And is full of cheese.
1) people want shield instead of mage armor b/c shield bonuses are hard to come by (i.e. only from shields). So if you use a two handed weapon (optimized) or you aren't proficient in shields, it is likely to stack with all other AC bonuses.

2) It is a long duration spell, so it even at CL 1, it will last all fight. Meaning that there are almost no opportunity costs to using it vs. a spell that only lasts rounds per level.

3)"But I can just use a wand." Yes, but you have to use an action to draw the wand (move), then a standard to activate. Meaning you are using a Full round. Also you either put a lot of resources into UMD or you could fail to successfully use the wand or even have a mishap. This ring eliminates all that.

4) it has a large non-scaling bonus, again meaning that you can use CL and get all the benefit.

5) It is a personal range spell. Personal range spells are usually significantly better than similar spells of some level (see also true touch). Mage Armor is also 1st level, but that is an armor bonus. Most level 1 characters can afford at least studded leather, and by level 2 you probably have a chain shirt, so it has almost no use for anyone other than the wizard and monk, even at level one. The next best spell for AC? Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and you need CL 9 before it hits +4. Shield of faith is 1st level, but you need CL 12 to hit +4, and it is a deflection bonus which means it won't stack with the ubiquitous Ring of Protection, meaning you won't actually get the full benefit.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
GhostwheelX wrote:
KainPen wrote:

you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

What do you think of my earlier suggestion of this being used at most once an hour before it has to recharge?

The problem is that with the 15 minute work day, you are getting (effectively) the same benefit. Once per day would be ok.

Dark Archive

j b 200 wrote:

1) why not use the existing Ring of Force Shield?

2) why not use Bracers of Armor +4?

3) why not have the player just buy a wand of shield?

It is unlikely that you will find sufficient answers to all 3 questions.

Even if you want to skip the "price it like some other similar item" and just jump strait to the table, you are still pricing it wrong. The table already tells you that this item, since it gives you a "other" bonus to AC, it should be 2500 x (bonus^2). So 40,000gp.

This comes up ever few weeks. And is full of cheese.
1) people want shield instead of mage armor b/c shield bonuses are hard to come by (i.e. only from shields). So if you use a two handed weapon (optimized) or you aren't proficient in shields, it is likely to stack with all other AC bonuses.

2) It is a long duration spell, so it even at CL 1, it will last all fight. Meaning that there are almost no opportunity costs to using it vs. a spell that only lasts rounds per level.

3)"But I can just use a wand." Yes, but you have to use an action to draw the wand (move), then a standard to activate. Meaning you are using a Full round. Also you either put a lot of resources into UMD or you could fail to successfully use the wand or even have a mishap. This ring eliminates all that.

4) it has a large non-scaling bonus, again meaning that you can use CL and get all the benefit.

5) It is a personal range spell. Personal range spells are usually significantly better than similar spells of some level (see also true touch). Mage Armor is also 1st level, but that is an armor bonus. Most level 1 characters can afford at least studded leather, and by level 2 you probably have a chain shirt, so it has almost no use for anyone other than the wizard and monk, even at level one. The next best spell for AC? Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and you need CL 9 before it hits +4. Shield of faith is 1st level, but you need CL 12 to hit +4, and it is a deflection bonus which means it won't stack with the ubiquitous Ring of...

1. Because the player is using a two-handed weapon.

2. Because he's already wearing regular armor.

3. Because he lacks UMD.

Sufficient answers have been found :-P

The thing is, this can be different because it would take an action in combat to activate. Combat tends to last around 2-3 rounds. Which means that losing a round is pretty huge.

My suggestion above of only allowing it to be used once every 10 minutes or once an hour would limit it so that people couldn't get around its duration, spamming it all day to have it constantly active, but for the most part would actually need to spend a round to use it in combat. Mind addressing that?


problem is how often do players fight and how long are their battles even once a hour is not enough. most players and game I see have at least and hour to 30min in between fights, it is still a since infinite use. every other battle they may not be able to activate it or every battle, that is entirely group and play style dependent on how strong it is.

Like my regular group I GM for. They clear a whole 3 story building in like 40 rds, they just hit everything fast and take no breaks, kind of like a swat team. that way they have to buff less and bad guys have less time to buff them selves. So your hour use item would actual effect my group it would wear off after the 1st min, then they would have to go with out, for the rest of the encounters for the day. Do to their play style. but the other groups I play with, it would not even phase them at all.

Make it 3 use a day item at that price I think that is fair. Or raise the price to what it neededs to be worth around 27 to 50k


Wand of shield + wand key ring: 3.75k


j b 200 wrote:
GhostwheelX wrote:
KainPen wrote:

you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

What do you think of my earlier suggestion of this being used at most once an hour before it has to recharge?
The problem is that with the 15 minute work day, you are getting (effectively) the same benefit. Once per day would be ok.

For once a day, a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (abjuration) would also work.


j b 200 wrote:

1) why not use the existing Ring of Force Shield?

2) why not use Bracers of Armor +4?

3) why not have the player just buy a wand of shield?

It is unlikely that you will find sufficient answers to all 3 questions.

Even if you want to skip the "price it like some other similar item" and just jump strait to the table, you are still pricing it wrong. The table already tells you that this item, since it gives you a "other" bonus to AC, it should be 2500 x (bonus^2). So 40,000gp.

This comes up ever few weeks. And is full of cheese.
1) people want shield instead of mage armor b/c shield bonuses are hard to come by (i.e. only from shields). So if you use a two handed weapon (optimized) or you aren't proficient in shields, it is likely to stack with all other AC bonuses.

2) It is a long duration spell, so it even at CL 1, it will last all fight. Meaning that there are almost no opportunity costs to using it vs. a spell that only lasts rounds per level.

3)"But I can just use a wand." Yes, but you have to use an action to draw the wand (move), then a standard to activate. Meaning you are using a Full round. Also you either put a lot of resources into UMD or you could fail to successfully use the wand or even have a mishap. This ring eliminates all that.

4) it has a large non-scaling bonus, again meaning that you can use CL and get all the benefit.

5) It is a personal range spell. Personal range spells are usually significantly better than similar spells of some level (see also true touch). Mage Armor is also 1st level, but that is an armor bonus. Most level 1 characters can afford at least studded leather, and by level 2 you probably have a chain shirt, so it has almost no use for anyone other than the wizard and monk, even at level one. The next best spell for AC? Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and you need CL 9 before it hits +4. Shield of faith is 1st level, but you need CL 12 to hit +4, and it is a deflection bonus which means it won't stack with the ubiquitous Ring of...

just wanted to add to your list that a wand also take up use of a hand, so you still can't twf or thf with it, with out dropping the wand on ground and leaving it vulnerable, you then have to spend another action to put the wand away. it just another reason why the item that the OP is trying to make should cost a lot more then the wand, it takes no hands and stays on the person at all times, it is protected by the users saving throws while wand on the ground is not.


Gisher wrote:
j b 200 wrote:
GhostwheelX wrote:
KainPen wrote:

you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

What do you think of my earlier suggestion of this being used at most once an hour before it has to recharge?
The problem is that with the 15 minute work day, you are getting (effectively) the same benefit. Once per day would be ok.
For once a day, a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (abjuration) would also work.

You should also list the price: 1.125k

so people understand how ridiculous some of the pricing suggestions have been.


KainPen wrote:
just wanted to add to your list that a wand also take up use of a hand, so you still can't twf or thf with it, with out dropping the wand on ground and leaving it vulnerable, you then have to spend another action to put the wand away. it just another reason why the item that the OP is trying to make should cost a lot more then the wand, it takes no hands and stays on the person at all times, it is protected by the users saving throws while wand on the ground is not.

Attach a cord and free action drop it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Just let him have a ring of force shield. Each round (assuming weapon is already being held): (free action) Deactivate ring, (free action) grip two-handed weapon with hand wearing ring, make attacks with two-handed weapon, (free action) release the hand wearing the ring, (free action) activate ring.


You can't make attacks of opportunity that way.


GhostwheelX wrote:

What if the item could only be used once every 10 minutes? In this way, you couldn't keep it up all the time, and instead would need to waste a standard action at the start of combat if you wanted it to be in effect.

Would that balance the cost? It would be little different from someone UMDing a wand for a little more than double the cost of a wand.

I don't consider that a real limitation, given that almost every encounter, especially for an overland trek is going to be way more than 10 minutes apart.


+2 animated ghost touch shield costs 49 000 takes a move action to activate and gives +4 shield bonus to AC that also applies to incorporeal attacks for 4 rounds. It also does not block magic missiles, but this is mostly flavor.

If we subtract the cost of lesser metamagic rod of quicken (17 000) from that as a compensation for taking standard rather than move action to activate and we get 32 000. Let's cut another 2k for the magic missile protection. We get 30 000. Seems fair. It also lasts twice as long, but your battles seems pretty short so whatever. It is very easy to dispel, so maybe we can reduce another 5k from the price.

25 000 for command word activated ring of shield (CL 1) seems about right, and if you find it too expensive, remember that two-handed users who cant cast shield usually should not have the same AC as sword and shield users with ignorable investment.

Sovereign Court

Dragonchess Player wrote:
Just let him have a ring of force shield. Each round (assuming weapon is already being held): (free action) Deactivate ring, (free action) grip two-handed weapon with hand wearing ring, make attacks with two-handed weapon, (free action) release the hand wearing the ring, (free action) activate ring.

Also - no GM worth his salt should allow that. The free action amount are totally within the GM's purview, and I know that I wouldn't allow it.

Remember - while mechanically the rounds are in succession, that's just an abstraction to make it playable. The rounds are really all happening at once.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
_Ozy_ wrote:
You can't make attacks of opportunity that way.

Sure you can... with the shield of force.

"An iron band, this simple ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action."

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Just let him have a ring of force shield. Each round (assuming weapon is already being held): (free action) Deactivate ring, (free action) grip two-handed weapon with hand wearing ring, make attacks with two-handed weapon, (free action) release the hand wearing the ring, (free action) activate ring.

Also - no GM worth his salt should allow that. The free action amount are totally within the GM's purview, and I know that I wouldn't allow it.

Remember - while mechanically the rounds are in succession, that's just an abstraction to make it playable. The rounds are really all happening at once.

It's all RAW. See above for the description of the ring. Releasing or replacing one hand on a two-handed weapon is also a free action.

Do you also impose a restriction on the amount of ammunition an archer can draw and place in their bow in a round (also free actions)? Or the number of objects a character with Quick Draw and Two-Weapon Fighting can throw (such as an alchemist with Fast Bombs)?


There some new feat, I forget the exact name, that allows you to wield a shield (maybe just a buckler) while wielding a 2-handed weapon.

Take that.

You're trying to get around the limitations of and short comings of wielding a two-handed weapon to get superior defense. But there should always be an opportunity cost, and gold is usually the cheapest (compared to spending feats, changing combat styles, etc).

What you want is too good. Use a Ring of Force Shield or take the feat.


Claxon wrote:
There some new feat, I forget the exact name, that allows you to wield a shield (maybe just a buckler) while wielding a 2-handed weapon.

There is Shield Brace for a light, heavy, or tower shield and Unhindering Shield for a buckler.


Claxon wrote:

There some new feat, I forget the exact name, that allows you to wield a shield (maybe just a buckler) while wielding a 2-handed weapon.

Take that.

You're trying to get around the limitations of and short comings of wielding a two-handed weapon to get superior defense. But there should always be an opportunity cost, and gold is usually the cheapest (compared to spending feats, changing combat styles, etc).

What you want is too good. Use a Ring of Force Shield or take the feat.

Unhindered shield, requires shield focus, and only works with a buckler.

That said, you can pile on a lot more and better enchantments on a regular shield compared to what's being discussed here.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
You can't make attacks of opportunity that way.

Sure you can... with the shield of force.

Well sure, or with armor spikes. I meant with the two-handed sword obv.


Anger Nogar wrote:

+2 animated ghost touch shield costs 49 000 takes a move action to activate and gives +4 shield bonus to AC that also applies to incorporeal attacks for 4 rounds. It also does not block magic missiles, but this is mostly flavor.

If we subtract the cost of lesser metamagic rod of quicken (17 000) from that as a compensation for taking standard rather than move action to activate and we get 32 000. Let's cut another 2k for the magic missile protection. We get 30 000. Seems fair. It also lasts twice as long, but your battles seems pretty short so whatever. It is very easy to dispel, so maybe we can reduce another 5k from the price.

25 000 for command word activated ring of shield (CL 1) seems about right, and if you find it too expensive, remember that two-handed users who cant cast shield usually should not have the same AC as sword and shield users with ignorable investment.

Or, once again, a wand of shield and a key ring for less than 4k. And, if you really need the UMD ranks, add a 4k Headband of Int with the UMD skill. All, way less than what you guys are saying.


But a wand has several drawback to a worn magical item.

It can run out of charges. It has to be activated a standard action. It can be disarmed. You have to worry about what you do with it afterwards. Do you just drop it, for an enemy to possibly pick up and run away with?

Sovereign Court

Dragonchess Player wrote:


It's all RAW. See above for the description of the ring. Releasing or replacing one hand on a two-handed weapon is also a free action.

Do you also impose a restriction on the amount of ammunition an archer can draw and place in their bow in a round (also free actions)? Or the number of objects a character with Quick Draw and Two-Weapon Fighting can throw (such as an alchemist with Fast Bombs)?

I never claimed that it wasn't RAW. It's also RAW to disallow it.

I don't impose the amount of ammo an archer can draw. Thanks for straw-manning me. That has nothing to do with this topic. The total # of free actions isn't at issue.

Speaking for up to six seconds is a free action. Just because I'm okay with an archer drawing six arrows each turn doesn't mean that I'd allow someone to speak 24 seconds in a six second round. It's because each six second free action would be done at the same time.

For your RAW force ring trick the ring would be activated and not activated for six seconds each in the same six second span of time. As a GM I would be well within my purview to disallow such, and I would.

srd for Free Actions wrote:
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.

If the specific # of free actions were the issue it would list a number. It isn't. Therefore it is up to the GM to use basic common sense, which my ruling is.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Just let him have a ring of force shield. Each round (assuming weapon is already being held): (free action) Deactivate ring, (free action) grip two-handed weapon with hand wearing ring, make attacks with two-handed weapon, (free action) release the hand wearing the ring, (free action) activate ring.

Also - no GM worth his salt should allow that. The free action amount are totally within the GM's purview, and I know that I wouldn't allow it.

Remember - while mechanically the rounds are in succession, that's just an abstraction to make it playable. The rounds are really all happening at once.

It's all RAW. See above for the description of the ring. Releasing or replacing one hand on a two-handed weapon is also a free action.

Do you also impose a restriction on the amount of ammunition an archer can draw and place in their bow in a round (also free actions)? Or the number of objects a character with Quick Draw and Two-Weapon Fighting can throw (such as an alchemist with Fast Bombs)?

The difference between what you originally argued for, and the archer is quite simple. In the case of the archer his free atcions are spread throughout the 6 second abstraction period ("a turn") to make use of his BAB and Buffs. To reflect what that is representing, every so often durning the six seconds he pulls another arrow and fires. This works wether his turn is in succession or not. The Two handed fighter on the other hand works differently. Remember, when you are attacking, what that represents is you finding an opening somewhere in the 6 second period and attempting to take advantage of it. You do not literally swing your sword once (assuming a low BAB) and then sit there for 6 seconds. you are fighting the entire time. That is why when you swing your Greatsword your buckler stops working without a special training ("a feat"). because you are spending the turn swinging the sword and can't effectively interpose the shield with the same arm.

So, to your force shield example: it only works because of the abstraction. In your example the fighter swings once and sits there the rest of the six seconds. He drops his shield (lowering his guard, but its his turn so none of the enemies can take advantage) , attacks his one swing this turn, and then brings his shield back up. That sequence only works if you have a swquential turn and during that turn your enemies aren't attacking you.

The archer using those free action reloads does not assume a sequential turn order. Your sheild trick does. Theres a difference. Stop acting like there isn't.


Oh good, another one. So as others have pointed out, compare to similar items first. Unfortunately that means the Ring of Force Shield. I say unfortunately because I've always thought that one was sorta overpriced. That being said, it's not really a fair comparison to this. Cloak of the Hedge Wizard is a little better, but it's a straight spell-in-a-can pricing (actually very slightly discounted).

Next is the balancing. As others have pointed out (and you've agreed), at-will and continuous mean basically the same thing in this case. Once every 10 minutes might work, a more consistent restriction (in that it's what everything else uses) would be to make it 5/day. The pricing for 5/day is identical to at-will but they work very differently. 5/day is probably enough for every battle but you will need to cast it either immediately before or during the battle (and might blow a charge if there's no combat, or combat takes longer to start). That's actually a restriction.

As was brought up in the other thread, the comparison for this is a Wand Key Ring and a wand of Shield. Yes, you still have to have the wand in hand and yes, you still need some investment in UMD to guarantee it, but with 50 charges it will probably last a few levels and you have a 50% chance to activate it with no investment at all. This combo is 3,750, so significantly above this would be extreme.

So, with all that being said, I'd probably peg a 5/day shield ring as around 6k. It's definitely worth more than the base 1,800 but it's not worth nearly as much as, say, an actual shield (or anything else permanent or at-will). A standard action every battle is fairly significant. The short duration isn't itself significant but it can easily be made significant (running battles, reinforcements, etc.).

Remember, the OP is not trying to make a continuous or use-activated magic item. They want command word, and they're even trying to work out restrictions to prevent it from basically being continuous.


Claxon wrote:

But a wand has several drawback to a worn magical item.

It can run out of charges. It has to be activated a standard action. It can be disarmed. You have to worry about what you do with it afterwards. Do you just drop it, for an enemy to possibly pick up and run away with?

For 750gp per wand, you don't care. You pack a spare. By the time you run through 50 charges (50 combats), 750gp will be pocket change.

Or, you could wait until you can afford the insane 30-40k that other people are suggesting.

Or, another option would be buying 5 cloaks of the hedge wizard for <6k, and that should last you an entire day.

Don't have to worry about being disarmed or what to do with it afterwards. I guess paying an extra 2k from the wand/key ring is worth that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The opportunity cost of a Cloak of Hedge Wizard is the resistance bonus to saves from a cloak of resistance. That's a lot more than the gold cost.


I'm not saying he should bother to pay 30,000 or 40,000. I am however saying that he shouldn't create a new custom item and deal with these in avenues that already exist. Cloaks of hedge wizard (which as mentioned will prevent him from having a cloak of protection), wands, feats that will let him wield a shield while also wielding a two handed weapon.

There are too many options that will allow him to do something like what he wants, but with a few drawback beyond what he wants.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
The opportunity cost of a Cloak of Hedge Wizard is the resistance bonus to saves from a cloak of resistance. That's a lot more than the gold cost.

If you're custom crafting, you're just using that as a comparison anyways, so add that onto your cloak of resistance for x1.5 the cost, add extra uses by paying the cost n times.


Claxon wrote:

I'm not saying he should bother to pay 30,000 or 40,000. I am however saying that he shouldn't create a new custom item and deal with these in avenues that already exist. Cloaks of hedge wizard (which as mentioned will prevent him from having a cloak of protection), wands, feats that will let him wield a shield while also wielding a two handed weapon.

There are too many options that will allow him to do something like what he wants, but with a few drawback beyond what he wants.

I'm not sure what you're point is. If the GM allows custom crafting, then saying he can sort of accomplish what he wants by using inferior combinations of existing items and feats is not a good answer.

Obviously, if custom crafting is not allowed, that's the only answer.

However, getting back to the original point, if you're custom crafting an item, as everyone correctly notes, you base the price off a similar existing object. The cloak of the hedge wizard is the closest item we have, so that's the base price that should be used.


Cloak of the Hedge Wizard is 2,500. 5 of them is 12,500. Now, that being said, you also get two at-will cantrips (5 times) and 5/day endure elements. The opportunity cost of the slot is mostly irrelevant, there's no cost for changing the slot unless it's to dodge existing items (headbands and belts mostly), and dodging the slot is just supposed to be "no", not increase the cost.

As I already said, ring+wand is 4k. If necessary, a headband of Int (UMD) can be included (4k) but that does a whole @#$%ton more than just help you activate this one wand. It uses a hand at the start of battle (to hold the wand) and a standard action.

The suggested item is a ring. The only difference between it and the ring+wand combo is that you don't need to hold a wand at the start and you need to invest in (or otherwise have a bonus to) UMD. Otherwise it uses the same slot and still takes a standard action. By the time you use up all 50 charges of the wand the cost of another wand is almost irrelevant. Such an item cannot cost significantly more than the wand+ring. It also just period cannot cost more than a cloak with the same effect you only use 1/4th of the powers of. Less, since the cantrips are at-will. So somewhere between 4k and 12.5k.


Thanks for the correction on the cloak, I had inadvertently used the craft cost.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:


It's all RAW. See above for the description of the ring. Releasing or replacing one hand on a two-handed weapon is also a free action.

Do you also impose a restriction on the amount of ammunition an archer can draw and place in their bow in a round (also free actions)? Or the number of objects a character with Quick Draw and Two-Weapon Fighting can throw (such as an alchemist with Fast Bombs)?

I never claimed that it wasn't RAW. It's also RAW to disallow it.

I don't impose the amount of ammo an archer can draw. Thanks for straw-manning me. That has nothing to do with this topic. The total # of free actions isn't at issue.

Ahem.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
The free action amount are totally within the GM's purview, and I know that I wouldn't allow it.

No strawman. "Amount."

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Ring of Shield - Cost? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice