AsmodeusUltima |
I am curious as to the proper course of action to be taken when one suspects that another player's character is built incorrectly to the point that it is hurting the game.
The situation: I sat down to finally play Eyes of the Ten, Part I the other day, and while it was fun, one character completely dominated pretty much everything. I consider my own character pretty well optimized, but this guy had better attacks, damage, AC, saves, etc than everyone else at the table and on at least two occasions he was caught out using rules incorrectly. After the session I spoke with the GM who said that the player was a good guy who was just fuzzy at math, and he did not want to have to audit the character every session and make the player feel like he did not trust him.
But... I, and a few of the other players at the table felt our fun was impinged by this character. While we all did have our cool moments, it cheapens the feeling of playing a well-built character when it is being shown up by one that we strongly suspect is breaking the rules. Please note I am not accusing the player of cheating; unless proven otherwise, I believe the GM was correct, and the player just made mistakes in the build and adding bonuses.
Should I contact my Venture officer about this? Normally I would just try to avoid tables with said player in the future, but since this is Eyes we have at least three more high-level adventures to go through together. I don't know the player well enough to feel comfortable confronting him about it myself, as I don't want him to misunderstand my concern as an accusation of cheating or just whining that my character isn't as powerful. I sincerely believe that his character is in need of a full audit; so what should I do?
Auke Teeninga Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic |
andreww |
When I ran Eyes of the Ten I asked all players to send me their character sheets in advance, so I check their builds. This helps a lot because I could look up abilities I didn't know so less questions needed to be answered during gaming.
When I run online I do this for the majority of my games. It's harder to do in person due to time constraints, especially at conventions.
I suggest talking to your GM and explaining that it is affecting the enjoyment of the rest of the players. You could also ask the player in a "show me how you do this cool stuff" kind of way.
Also bear in mind that Eyes is a season 1, there has been an awful lot of power creep since then and some of its mechanical elements have not aged well.
Finlanderboy |
You could also ask the player in a "show me how you do this cool stuff" kind of way.
I find players are usually proud of their character and get excited to say how they accomplish what they can do (I am no different).
I also find one someone cheats at the table they are being a fun sponge.
Michael Meunier |
When I ran Eyes of the Ten I asked all players to send me their character sheets in advance, so I check their builds. This helps a lot because I could look up abilities I didn't know so less questions needed to be answered during gaming.
Same, in fact it's become standard practice in my area to do full audits going into Eyes.
nosig |
andreww wrote:You could also ask the player in a "show me how you do this cool stuff" kind of way.
I find players are usually proud of their character and get excited to say how they accomplish what they can do (I am no different).
I also find one someone cheats at the table they are being a fun sponge.
I really do preach the "WOW, how do you do this cool stuff!" approach. "Conspiratorial" rather than "Confrontational" gaming.
And who knows, even if the players math is a little off (which you can help correct while they are showing off their build), we often learn new gimmicks this way. Maybe you can even give them another pointer or two to help make them more of a team player...
O.J. Pinckert Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Plains |
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I think that it really depends on the situation and the player dynamics involved. Looking over the previous responses, here are my thoughts...
1. The GM should've done a character audit of all the characters before starting Eyes of the Ten. Any time I run any seeker arc, I always tell the players that they need to submit their characters to me 7 days in advance so that I am not terribly surprised by anything that happens. (Players surprising you is a given, but if you aren't familiar with the characters, it can slow down the game.)
2. If the player is willing to go over the math with you, then that may be the simplest solution to everything. That way, you aren't getting the GM involved.
3. If the player isn't willing to go over the math with you and the GM does not want to do any audits, you should explain to him that this character is impacting the enjoyment of the game for others. I would definitely talk with the other players before you approach the GM and confirm that it isn't just you that feels this way... If the whole table is getting frustrated, then this helps to legitimize your concerns. Truthfully, he shouldn't have to audit the character every session of the Eyes of the Ten since there shouldn't be THAT much in the way of changes between sessions. I would also present it to the GM by saying you would like him to do an audit of ALL of the characters running in Eyes of the Ten so that no one is feeling like they are being picked on.
4. If the GM is STILL unwilling to address the situation, then I would consider getting one of your VOs involved. Note, while it's in the job description of the VOs to help mediate issues within the group, it's not something that we like to do. Unless there is some grossly inappropriate things going on, I will normally leave it to the GMs to handle. (Basically, I don't want to ever be in the position of second-guessing my GMs.) That having been said, if you truly feel that the GM is not participating in the spirit of the Pathfinder Society by allowing someone that (as the GM stated) is fuzzy at math to play with a character that is taking the fun away from other players, you should always feel free to contact your VO.
The sad fact is that if you reach step 4, you will basically be in a position where you have to choose between the GM getting upset because you talked with your VO, and you (and other players) being upset. It is a no-win situation.
Hope this helps.
FLite Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento |
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I don't have anything to contribute that has not been said above. I just want to let everyone know that the VOs involved are aware of the situation, and will be addressing it as diplomatically as possible to prevent any unnecessary hurt feelings. The GM in question is relatively inexperienced, and may not have understood the need for an audit beforehand.
rknop |
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It gets especially fun when you have a player who brings broken done-incorrectly wrong builds to every table he plays at.
And when, after being browbeaten by a VC at the table during the first session of Eyes to get his character to legality, he then does a HUGE amount of retraining before the third session (since he's figured out that his animal companion isn't as overpowered as he wanted, so he's going to switch to something else that he doesn't understand). So the third session starts with us figuring out that this player not only built the character wrong again (no surprise), but also didn't have any clue how much prestige and money it cost to do all the retraining. Meaning that we start a half hour late because of this one character, and I'm still not convinced that the character was right. (I threw up my hands and gave up on the guy,and let the VC at the table deal with it.)
I'm the GM. I'm just biding my time. One more session of Eyes I'm stuck with this, and then never again.
GMing is supposed to be fun.
Honestly, Eyes is awesome. But if a player at the table is making it not-fun, I'd say walk away from it and sacrifice your chance to play Eyes rather than sit through 12+ more hours of gaming with a player who makes it not fun.
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
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I don't have anything to contribute that has not been said above. I just want to let everyone know that the VOs involved are aware of the situation, and will be addressing it as diplomatically as possible to prevent any unnecessary hurt feelings. The GM in question is relatively inexperienced, and may not have understood the need for an audit beforehand.
You are a good venture critter.
godsDMit |
Jared Thaler wrote:I don't have anything to contribute that has not been said above. I just want to let everyone know that the VOs involved are aware of the situation, and will be addressing it as diplomatically as possible to prevent any unnecessary hurt feelings. The GM in question is relatively inexperienced, and may not have understood the need for an audit beforehand.You are a good venture critter.
Chaotic Good?
Neutral Good?
Lawful Good?
FLite Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento |
Walter Sheppard wrote:Jared Thaler wrote:I don't have anything to contribute that has not been said above. I just want to let everyone know that the VOs involved are aware of the situation, and will be addressing it as diplomatically as possible to prevent any unnecessary hurt feelings. The GM in question is relatively inexperienced, and may not have understood the need for an audit beforehand.You are a good venture critter.Chaotic Good?
Neutral Good?
Lawful Good?
Lawful. But very good at finding loopholes.
Eric Brittain |
In any case, if a player is causing a proble. at a table/event and it is a problem. for more than one person then this 'problen' player needs to be talked to.
People do not yet consistently have the power to read minds and until we all do the best way to communicate is directly, kindly, specifically, and in an environment where the 'problem ' person can maintain face (privately, or as privately as is safe for all involved).
It is very possible that this 'problem' player does not realize that they are causing any problems. Once you have a conversation with them that raises specific instances and the problems that they caused, the 'problem' player now has this information and can change their behavior accordingly.
It they will not change their behavior then it is my suggestion that they be invited to 'find their fun elsewhere'. Organized play is not for everyone and selfishness is something that I have found to damage both game sessionever and the communities that support them.
TL;DR: Talk to your problem players and they may change their behaviors.