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Wonder Woman


Movies

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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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Why it gives you an adrenaline rush

Sovereign Court

OK, seen the movie. It is fun. I didn't waste my money on a movie ticket. Gal was beyond gorgeous and managed to muster up acting chops to give the role gravitas. Side characters were fun. Villain was interesting and surprising. All in all a good movie, better than BvS by a hefty margin and marginally better than Man of Steel.

Nothing to scare the marvel guys though. Plus I don't get all the fanfare and pomp. It's not THAT good.


I liked it better than most Marvel movies.

Sovereign Court

Different strokes...

Sovereign Court

I thought it was well cast and executed. The only knock I can give it is it felt like Thor 1 meets Cap Am. 1. Though at this point how do you get around feeling derivative in the supers genre?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Spoiler:
I loved the beginning. I liked the middle. And then the end kind of stepped all over the messages of the first 2/3rds, the CGI was terrible, and there was some miscasting that made things even less climactic than they should have been, IMO.

Every review I read throws all sorts of praise at Gal Gadot (richly deserved!) and Chris Pine (who was a wooden lump of boring in this movie, and almost surgically extracted 'wonder' from every scene he was in. I know he can act. I've seen him act, but he was acting like a concussed zombie this entire movie. The writing did him no favors, I'll admit. One is not going to win an Oscar with lines like 'huh' and 'that's neat.').

But the fight on the island? Gorgeous and tragic. Every time an thousand-year old amazon dies, I cringe. Everytime one does something epic like fling herself off a cliff or flip in midair and shoot three guys with three arrows in one shot, such joy!

The walk across No Man's Land was, IMO, made much stronger by all the lead up, all the times Diana is visibly affected by sights of wounded men or retreating soldiers with thousand-yard stares or struggling refugees, and dragged forward because 'she can't save everyone' until she finally puts her foot down and says, 'but I'm doing *this!*' Great scene. It wasn't just a power walk for the sake of a power walk, there was an actual journey up to that moment, and it paid off.

And then the ending. Bad CGI (even kept mostly hidden by darkness, it's still bad), an actor who is only slightly more threatening than the eight-year old girl who played Diana in the first act, and the woman who can 'end a war with love' punching her way through the final act like she's the damned Batman. Wait, wasn't that the theme of the movie, that Wonder Woman rocks because she can punch face really hard and that even more violence is the answer to stopping war? Meh.

Plus, even if the CGI had been better, and they'd cast an actor for Ares who looked even a *tiny* bit like a Greek god of war, the end fight was just odd. He levitates and throws stuff at her telekinetically? What, does he think this is the end of an X-Man movie, and he's Jean Grey and / or Magneto? Wouldn't the god of war actually know how to fight?

It was a great movie, until it wasn't.


Pan wrote:
I thought it was well cast and executed. The only knock I can give it is it felt like Thor 1 meets Cap Am. 1. Though at this point how do you get around feeling derivative in the supers genre?

Well, not exactly non-derivative, but I think it's high time somebody did . . .

* * * * * * * * The Adventures of Normalman * * * * * * * *

Sovereign Court

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Pan wrote:
I thought it was well cast and executed. The only knock I can give it is it felt like Thor 1 meets Cap Am. 1. Though at this point how do you get around feeling derivative in the supers genre?

Well, not exactly non-derivative, but I think it's high time somebody did . . .

* * * * * * * * The Adventures of Normalman * * * * * * * *

Actually, I think that's why Antman was such a hit. Antman is just a guy who has made some mistakes and wants to be better. Not another Achilles or Hercules figure.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I thought Wonder Woman was fantastic. As played by Gal Gadot, the character Diana struck the perfect balance between fun, seriousness, idealism, incredulity at unfairness, and a willingness to risk everything to do the right thing.

WW is easily in my top 5 superhero movies of all time.

I've watched it on the big screen three times now (once in 3D... which I didn't think added very much).

My only critique was that the villains were boring, and the final 20 minutes were yet more uninspired CGI "stuff go BOOM!" that was full of phrenetic visuals with next-to-no character developement or emotional impact.

A more fitting ending (with spoilers for the actual movie):
I thought a better ending would have been that Ares was a metaphor for humanity's propensity toward violence rather than the literal God of War.

In my version: After Steve's speech following the death of Gen. Ludendorff, Diana comes to the realization that Ares isn't a literal god she must slay, but a concept that must be overcome. She realizes that she must be an example to the world of the kind of person that can overcome humanity's warlike tendencies.

No CGI green-screen pyrotechnics for the final act, just some more amazing fight choreography as Diana single-handedly fights an army then defeats Dr. Poison. Include a scene where Diana and Steve have a final moment where she doesn't quite realize that Steve intends to sacrifice himself to end the war.

I would have liked that Act III a lot better. And it probably would have been cheaper to film.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hama wrote:
OK, seen the movie. It is fun. I didn't waste my money on a movie ticket. Gal was beyond gorgeous and managed to muster up acting chops to give the role gravitas. Side characters were fun. Villain was interesting and surprising. All in all a good movie, better than BvS by a hefty margin and marginally better than Man of Steel.

Ugh. I HATED Man of Steel, a film I had been very much looking forward to. The film rejected everything about the character of Superman than made him special, and instead made him a dark and gritty Batman rip-off who was a complete a-hole. Man of Steel was by far and away my least favorite major superhero movie ever...

...until I saw Batman v. Superman, which pretty much ties Man of Steel in how much I hated it. The only thing I liked about BvS was the inclusion Wonder Woman... and she had less than 7 minutes of screen time.

Dark Archive

Haladir wrote:
I thought Wonder Woman was fantastic. As played by Gal Gadot, the character Diana struck the perfect balance between fun, seriousness, idealism, incredulity at unfairness, and a willingness to risk everything to do the right thing.

She was amazing. And the girl playing young Diana was cute as heck. (The teenage Diana we briefly saw made zero impression on me.)

What struck me about the end is that it was all about punching and fighting.

Spoiler:
Ares was supposed to be the god of war, not the god of senseless butchery, or dudes huddled around in holes in the ground waiting to be poisoned to death, or starve, or whatever. Everything going on there was utterly antithetical to the sorts of glorious bloody struggle and conflict that Ares lived for, back in the day. I kind of wanted the lasso of truth to play a part in forcing Ares to admit that he *hated* all this poison gas and trench warfare and people hiding in holes from machines and chemicals instead of charging into glorious combat, which would be decided by strength and bravery and red-blooded lust for glory and victory. By reminding Ares of what he was, and what he wanted from war, what he gloried in and thrived upon, and how this cold bleak mechanical butchery was exactly not it, Diana could have convinced him to walk away and stop supporting it. (And inadvertently setting the stage for WW2: Electric Boogaloo, where Ares tries for an encore with less poison gas and more storming the beaches of Normandy...)

I wanted a Wonder Woman who could 'turn a hawk into a dove, win a war with love' (and freely acknowledge that such a thing would probably be a huge dud to audiences that would be utterly baffled by the very concept of non-violent conflict resolution) and instead I got one whose solution was not materially different than *Deadpool.*


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Set wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Re: Ares.

Yeah, he was out of character. But so was Zeus the arch-rapist being presented as the benevolent creator of humanity and as patron of the Amazons. Once Hippolyta did her info-dump, I knew the mythology wasn't going to jive.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

I actually don't think that depiction of Ares is that out of character with the original myths. Ares in many Greek cities WAS considered a brutish butcher and vulture, not some sort of honorable god of glory in war. The ancient Greeks, at least some of them, understood War to be a bloody horrible thing, not something to be considered great. There is a good reason why Ares was accompanied by the godly manifestations of Fear (Phobos), Terror (Deimos), and Discord.

Athena was more often seen to be a "good" war God, as she was all about strategy.

Sovereign Court

Plus Ares hates humans and wants to exterminate them, WW1 would be something he would greatly enjoy.


Set wrote:

Spoiler:
{. . .}

And then the ending. Bad CGI (even kept mostly hidden by darkness, it's still bad), an actor who is only slightly more threatening than the eight-year old girl who played Diana in the first act, and the woman who can 'end a war with love' punching her way through the final act like she's the damned Batman. Wait, wasn't that the theme of the movie, that Wonder Woman rocks because she can punch face really hard and that even more violence is the answer to stopping war? Meh. {. . .}

Spoiler:
Well, that's the thing -- Ares DOESN'T look like what you would expect. Everybody was expecting him to be a martial, but he turns out to be a caster. Nice twist. Although I can't help but feel that he shouldn't have gone down that easily, or that maybe he should appear to go down that easily, but actually have escaped, like Loki in the Marvel movies that have Thor . . . .

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
Why it gives you an adrenaline rush

The music in WW is pretty good, and other than a couple exceptions from the Nolan Batman series, is probably the best comic book score (excluding previously famous songs) in quite a while This video has a really good breakdown of what is wrong with movie music today.

They start off with a "man on the street" series of interviews and asking people to hum any music from a Marvel movie. Then they explain why you can't remember any piece of music from them.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Set wrote:
Haladir wrote:
I thought Wonder Woman was fantastic. As played by Gal Gadot, the character Diana struck the perfect balance between fun, seriousness, idealism, incredulity at unfairness, and a willingness to risk everything to do the right thing.

She was amazing. And the girl playing young Diana was cute as heck. (The teenage Diana we briefly saw made zero impression on me.)

What struck me about the end is that it was all about punching and fighting.

** spoiler omitted **

I wanted a Wonder Woman who could 'turn a hawk into a dove, win a war with love' (and freely acknowledge that such a thing would probably be a huge dud to audiences that would be utterly baffled by the very concept of non-violent conflict resolution) and instead I got one whose solution was not materially different than *Deadpool.*

Yeah but in Greek Mythology Ares represents the ugly brutality of war. Athena is more glorious heroic battle. Ares is war for war's sake. Athena is warfare with a purpose.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Not only that, but Ares is typically a coward who manipulates behind the scenes and lets others actually fight and suffer.

Mars, the Roman version, was the brave warrior god.


Eh whenever I think ares I think Kevin smith. (not Silent bob)


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I wonder if the people complaining about the liberties taken with the Olympians also complain about the Marvel take on the Norse gods, because of the two the latter is immensely farther from the source material.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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But then again that's why Stan Lee did Thor in the first place. The average reader thinks they know Greek mythology well. Most people know next to nothing about Norse mythology, giving writers far more leeway before someone protests.


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If you look at Bulfinch as a source, whenever Ares was wounded in battle (the Iliad) he would run away and hide in a large urn in Zeus' throne room.


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Spoiler:
Note how Ares resembles the people who order soldiers to go to war and fight and die, rather than looking like the soldiers.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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^^^^^THIS!


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While I liked it, I felt like they were leading up to an ending that at the last minute they pulled away and replaced it with a big special effects laden dumb fight. That also spoiled the overall message of the movie in the process.

Spoilers:
So really, why did this movie even NEED Ares? To me, the movie was about Diana's naivety and her coming grips with the grey world the humans actually fight over. All these amazons, they tell stories of gods and how Ares made them bad. Then she wants to go out there and save the world by just killing the bad guy.

But the world does not work like that. You cannot save the world by just killing the bad ones. But the message instead is summed up in the early dialog with Diana and Steve when he talks about his motive to the war. You can either do nothing, or do something. Even if Diana has to face the fact that humans can all be very bad, she can do good. Like a superhero ought to, be better than those she has to save. Steve can save the day, but superhero Wonder Woman can save ALL THE DAYS. Even if it never ends.

The whole "save the world with love" just muddles this point with its vagueness. The movie did not need Ares to be real. It could had just been all mush fairy tales fed to Diana.


But, we like the mush.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Interesting Vox article on the importance of Wonder Woman's second act.

I think the author has a really good point, and think this is a big reason why certain movies are failing to connect with audiences. Marvel's movies have a lot of flaws, but as the author points out, they follow the formula of the three act structure, so they're easy to grasp and build a story that makes sense to audiences. Batman V. Superman in comparison is almost entirely setup, then it's just a super long climax. The problem is it didn't build up from anything, so that ending provides little satisfaction.

The downside for Wonder Woman is that the third act was poor, but because the second act was so good, we still leave the movie satisfied to a larger degree. The second act gets us invested in Diana's evolution that we want to see the new her kick some butt.

Envall wrote:

While I liked it, I felt like they were leading up to an ending that at the last minute they pulled away and replaced it with a big special effects laden dumb fight. That also spoiled the overall message of the movie in the process.

** spoiler omitted **

He didn't need to be real, but this is a comic book movie, they don't deal in that level of metaphor. It's kind of a standard of the genre, that characters are the metaphor, and so need to exist and interact with things.

I agree that it felt like a major tone shift. I think it would have been very possible to have that confrontation, but completely rework him into something that actually pushed Diana into reinforcing her choices and desired role as protector and savior of humanity. Ares as manipulator and deceiver could have done that more effectively. Instead we got an undefined mash-up of super powers that just wanted to use talking as a way to stall so he could smash more things.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

From one of my Native American feeds, a translation of the Blackfoot conversation between Chief and Diana (which was inexplicably not subtitled in the movie):

"Even better, he introduced himself as Napi, the Blackfoot demi-god who is known as a trickster and a storyteller."

So maybe we've got a new demigod in the canon?

I am Napi

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