Philadelphia DNC 2016


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Yeah. Sorry. I'll let it go. It just struck me like a wave of despair and I had to spit it out.


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bugleyman wrote:

10-4 Chris.

Trump tweet doubles down on Russian hacking.

Say what you like about the Watergate breakin, at least Nixon used three Americans. Damn outsourcing!


Coriat wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

10-4 Chris.

Trump tweet doubles down on Russian hacking.

Say what you like about the Watergate breakin, at least Nixon used three Americans. Damn outsourcing!

look where that got him. Caught. That won't happen to donald trump. He'll hire the best.


Chris Lambertz wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a post and the responses to it. We're not OK with hosting comments that endorse hatred, violence, and death upon others in any fashion on paizo.com. It's also really not cool to make blanketed statements about an entire religion in this manner.

Why not, Chris?

The Republican Candidate for President of the United States has made that argument on TV. There's a very real chance it could be US policy this time next year. How can we even pretend it's not acceptable? Will we not be able to talk about actual policy?

That may be the worst thing about Trump. That he's make the unthinkable necessary to consider. That policies Bush wouldn't have considered are now mainstream debate.

Our Community Guidelines are very clear on this front. This is our space, we don't feel that the rhetoric that was removed is appropriate here, and I'd suggest further comments on how we manage our space go to either Website Feedback or community@paizo.com. Thanks!

Thanks Chris. XD


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Coriat wrote:
bugleyman wrote:

10-4 Chris.

Trump tweet doubles down on Russian hacking.

Say what you like about the Watergate breakin, at least Nixon used three Americans. Damn outsourcing!
look where that got him. Caught. That won't happen to donald trump. He'll hire the best.

I'm pretty sure Trump hasn't hired any Russian hackers. The question may be more whether they've hired him.

Of course, if Trump had hired Russian hackers all our problems would soon be over. He'd stiff them on the bill and they'd take care of him.


can't..keep.. running.. into... poes.. law.. its like alfred hitchocks the birds in here.


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Nevermore.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
can't..keep.. running.. into... poes.. law.. its like alfred hitchocks the birds in here.

Some times it's good to clean stuff with fire...

Just saying Chris we might need to start over...


Nixon is very tired of being compared to Trump.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

How quickly could we repeal the 22nd Amendment?


2 years or so, given some states' laws on such matters.

Liberty's Edge

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thejeff wrote:
Yeah. Sorry. I'll let it go. It just struck me like a wave of despair and I had to spit it out.

*zen hugs*

Look at it this way. The country may be drowning in a sea of political hate speech, but Paizo remains an island of human decency. Kudos to Chris and the community guidelines.


Since former Director Petreaus came up --

dude did not merely have a private, unsecured email server with TS documents on it.

He gave out his password to his mistress so that they could leave unsent draft messages for each other.

In short, Hillary and Petreaus did not do the same thing.

While what Hillary did was sloppy, it was not giving out her goddamn password sloppy.

And seeing the various idiots on Trump's twitter claiming that the server was tantamount to treason just reminds me that apparently many of Trump's supporters don't actually know what treason means.

I dunno, it's kind of weird.

I've voted against Hillary in the 2008 and 2016 primaries because I view her as unelectable - she's a widely hated (to the point of galvanizing) and relatively uncharismatic figure. I don't question her competence, but I seriously question her ability to win an election.

Though by some quirk of fate, the Republicans have joyfully(?) chosen for themselves a candidate who is so utterly revolting he can actually lose to Hillary Clinton.

And that's kind of amazing to me. Seriously Republicans, what the hell.

I fully expect Ted Cruz to be the 2020 nominee if Trump loses, because he might be the only way the Republicans can go down from here. And he's more like a bottom of the barrel side-grade.


The way things are starting to go, the GOP may well be a mere shadow of its current self come 2020.


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Zhangar wrote:

Since former Director Petreaus came up --

dude did not merely have a private, unsecured email server with TS documents on it.

He gave out his password to his mistress so that they could leave unsent draft messages for each other.

In short, Hillary and Petreaus did not do the same thing.

While what Hillary did was sloppy, it was not giving out her g%$~%$n password sloppy.

And seeing the various idiots on Trump's twitter claiming that the server was tantamount to treason just reminds me that apparently many of Trump's supporters don't actually know what treason means.

I dunno, it's kind of weird.

I've voted against Hillary in the 2008 and 2016 primaries because I view her as unelectable - she's a widely hated (to the point of galvanizing) and relatively uncharismatic figure. I don't question her competence, but I seriously question her ability to win an election.

Though by some quirk of fate, the Republicans have joyfully(?) chosen for themselves a candidate who is so utterly revolting he can actually lose to Hillary Clinton.

And that's kind of amazing to me. Seriously Republicans, what the hell.

I fully expect Ted Cruz to be the 2020 nominee if Trump loses, because he might be the only way the Republicans can go down from here. And he's more like a bottom of the barrel side-grade.

This is ONE area I know why people are VERY upset about Clinton and the email items. I've had a few people I've met in the military over the years (though a lot of it was with my job in the legal field at the time with contracts and administrative).

I personally know a few that did things FAR less than Clinton (and one who did something VERY similar, but they didn't send emails out with the information on it, so actually LESS than what Clinton did...that guy lost rank, clearance, and faced the threat of prison time) and got punished via criminal and military justice systems.

I also have heard stories of others that lost security clearances supposedly for things as simple as having put a USB drive into a computer, or sent classified information (even unmarked as such, ignorance nor intent WAS NOT a factor that excused them) on unclassified networks, and other such stories.

When the common person would lose their security clearance and/or face severe penalties including up to prison time for the same thing Clinton did...

It really DOES put things into perspective of how differently someone who is the "elite" is handled verses the normal US citizen.

PS: Hillary didn't need to give ANYONE HER PASSWORD, she freely sent classified information to them in emails! It wasn't just one person either...it was a LOT of different people. Why care about getting a password when you can simply get the actual information sent to you?

With a password you'd have to have the desire to find something, know where to look, and how to get it. A password gives you access, but not necessarily the information.

Sending and email with the information in it...no password needed!

On the otherhand, Hillary is FAR less likely to nuke the planet, or even nuke someone else simply because she/he doesn't like them.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:
I personally know a few that did things FAR less than Clinton (and one who did something VERY similar, but they didn't send emails out with the information on it, so actually LESS than what Clinton did...that guy lost rank, clearance, and faced the threat of prison time) and got punished via criminal and military justice systems.

How strange. The FBI said, explicitly, that they were unable to find any comparable cases that resulted in charges being filed.

Are you more familiar with the details of the cases in question than the FBI? Or is Director Comey in bed with the Clintons, now?


As much as some tend to dismiss everything as purely partisan...


bugleyman wrote:
As much as some tend to dismiss everything as purely partisan...

Just proves Obama and Clinton are really Republicans.

</snark> Because the tag is probably needed.


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thejeff wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
As much as some tend to dismiss everything as purely partisan...

Just proves Obama and Clinton are really Republicans.

</snark> Because the tag is probably needed.

Not only is the tag not needed, it's wrong.

Bill Clinton shifted the Democratic party far to the right in the 1990s, and Obama hasn't done much to change that. However, during that same time, the Republicans have been galloping so far to the right that they're almost unrecognizable even compared to the Reagan-era Republicans (who themselves were considered right-wing nutcases compared to, say, Nixon/Ford).

So while the situation used to look like this:

---------D----------------------R--------------

It now looks like this:

---------------------------------D----------------------------------------- ----------------R-

Of course, the American left wing has never actually looked leftist by world standards. Even in the 1930s, Roosevelt was a centrist. Most Americans would not know a socialist if they saw one on TV, as proven by the fact that they consider Bernie Sanders to be one.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
thejeff wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
As much as some tend to dismiss everything as purely partisan...

Just proves Obama and Clinton are really Republicans.

</snark> Because the tag is probably needed.

Not only is the tag not needed, it's wrong.

Bill Clinton shifted the Democratic party far to the right in the 1990s, and Obama hasn't done much to change that. However, during that same time, the Republicans have been galloping so far to the right that they're almost unrecognizable even compared to the Reagan-era Republicans (who themselves were considered right-wing nutcases compared to, say, Nixon/Ford).

So while the situation used to look like this:

---------D----------------------R--------------

It now looks like this:

---------------------------------D----------------------------------------- ----------------R-

Of course, the American left wing has never actually looked leftist by world standards. Even in the 1930s, Roosevelt was a centrist. Most Americans would not know a socialist if they saw one on TV, as proven by the fact that they consider Bernie Sanders to be one.

Did I say Democrats were socialists? Or even Leftists?

And of course saying that today's Democrats are like Republicans of 30 years ago doesn't say Democrats are Republicans because today's Republicans aren't like that.

Also worth pointing out that your description only applies to some issues. On others, even today's Republicans are "left" of old school Democrats.


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Bernie might not be as socialist as some, but he's better than other at moving the party back to the left.

Republicans had a mixed bag about where they stand on being progressive.

Progressive: Slavery is bad.

Conservative: Gay sex is bad.

Progressive: We need to wean ourselves off foreign oil interests.

Conservative: Let's drill the hell out of everything!

Democrats aren't much better.

But we'll see how it goes in another 20-30 years.

If the comet doesn't hit us first that is.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

This convention has been far more entertaining than I had originally thought.


Kryzbyn,

In what sense?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The infighting, mainly. It's delicious.


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Meh. I'm only a fan of infighting between orcs and goblins.

Better explosions.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Bernie might not be as socialist as some, but he's better than other at moving the party back to the left.

Republicans had a mixed bag about where they stand on being progressive.

Progressive: Slavery is bad.

Conservative: Gay sex is bad.

Progressive: We need to wean ourselves off foreign oil interests.

Conservative: Let's drill the hell out of everything!

Democrats aren't much better.

But we'll see how it goes in another 20-30 years.

If the comet doesn't hit us first that is.

Well, back when the Republicans were distinct in thinking slavery was bad, everyone thought Gay Sex was bad. Before that changed Democrats were pro-Civil Rights and Republicans pro-segregation.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Yeah. Sorry. I'll let it go. It just struck me like a wave of despair and I had to spit it out.

The Donald has that effect on people.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Bernie might not be as socialist as some, but he's better than other at moving the party back to the left.

Republicans had a mixed bag about where they stand on being progressive.

Progressive: Slavery is bad.

Conservative: Gay sex is bad.

Progressive: We need to wean ourselves off foreign oil interests.

Conservative: Let's drill the hell out of everything!

Democrats aren't much better.

But we'll see how it goes in another 20-30 years.

If the comet doesn't hit us first that is.

Well, back when the Republicans were distinct in thinking slavery was bad, everyone thought Gay Sex was bad. Before that changed Democrats were pro-Civil Rights and Republicans pro-segregation.

I think the gays might disagree with that. I wager they rather enjoyed it.


I'm sure homosexual people enjoy it. I just was talking about the belief by others due to both religious and cultural norms that having homosexual relations was bad.


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There's really not that much infighting. The vocal minority of Bernie supporters still causing real trouble are a tiny fraction of actual Bernie supporters. They're mainly the ones who were just in it because they hated Clinton and didn't really care about the movement. The rest of us know it's time to move on.

Barack Obama's speech was lovely. The man speaks very much good! And while I don't agree with all of their policies, the palpable love between President Obama and Vice President Biden is just flipping beautiful. I'm going to miss that bond. I'm going to miss a lot of things from this POTUS.

Sovereign Court

One thing I noticed is that several times during Obama's speech he got distracted by screaming delegates. Not sure what they were saying but his reaction was as if it was something awful. At some point he was finally able to tune it out and get on with his say.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

There's really not that much infighting. The vocal minority of Bernie supporters still causing real trouble are a tiny fraction of actual Bernie supporters. They're mainly the ones who were just in it because they hated Clinton and didn't really care about the movement. The rest of us know it's time to move on.

Barack Obama's speech was lovely. The man speaks very much good! And while I don't agree with all of their policies, the palpable love between President Obama and Vice President Biden is just flipping beautiful. I'm going to miss that bond. I'm going to miss a lot of things from this POTUS.

Obama is going to be around for a long while, yet. I expect some of his most important, meaningful work will be done after he leaves office. The guy is going to have a hell of a legacy.


Scott Betts wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:

There's really not that much infighting. The vocal minority of Bernie supporters still causing real trouble are a tiny fraction of actual Bernie supporters. They're mainly the ones who were just in it because they hated Clinton and didn't really care about the movement. The rest of us know it's time to move on.

Barack Obama's speech was lovely. The man speaks very much good! And while I don't agree with all of their policies, the palpable love between President Obama and Vice President Biden is just flipping beautiful. I'm going to miss that bond. I'm going to miss a lot of things from this POTUS.

Obama is going to be around for a long while, yet. I expect some of his most important, meaningful work will be done after he leaves office. The guy is going to have a hell of a legacy.

I've noticed that Democratic Presidents tend to do more after their terms.

Carter's work is obvious. Clinton's somewhat more controversial.
Still compare to Reagan (who was admittedly old and probably ill) or either Bush.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I'm going to miss that bond. I'm going to miss a lot of things from this POTUS.

You and me both. ;-)

P.S. You just have to laugh at the "worst president evar!" the GOP was trying to sell for so long. They appear quite relieved to turn their attention to Hillary and let that particular canard go.


Pan wrote:
One thing I noticed is that several times during Obama's speech he got distracted by screaming delegates. Not sure what they were saying but his reaction was as if it was something awful. At some point he was finally able to tune it out and get on with his say.

I read that Sanders had a lot of trouble getting people willing to be delegates for him, as many Democrats weren't willing. He had to turn to the further left protest movements, and it is showing in the shouting.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
Obama is going to be around for a long while, yet. I expect some of his most important, meaningful work will be done after he leaves office. The guy is going to have a hell of a legacy.

Carter is an example of how much an ex-president can accomplish. He's amazing. I wish he'd gotten four more years.


deinol wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Obama is going to be around for a long while, yet. I expect some of his most important, meaningful work will be done after he leaves office. The guy is going to have a hell of a legacy.
Carter is an example of how much an ex-president can accomplish. He's amazing. I wish he'd gotten four more years.

Were you alive during the Carter presidency?

He was a terrible president.

Once he recovered from the trauma of his presidency, he became a great man.

But oh, please, don't even ponder 4 more years of Carter back in the 1970's!

Edit: I found a nice site that summarizes some of the reasons he's so hated, but the one I remember the most was this one:

Quote:
Jimmy Carter versus the United States Congress - Jimmy Carter failed to build bridges and create allies in a democratically controlled Congress. This failure made getting anything done during his administration a difficult and enduring battle. That battle distracted greatly from the business of running this country and that distraction was seen as incompetence by a number of people.

He really couldn't accomplish anything, and he was a Democratic president with a Democrat-dominated Congress. If he can't provide the leadership to get a same-party Congress to do anything, I think the fault lies on him.


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Gotta agree with NBH. Gas rationing did not go over well with the voting public. The Iran Hostage debacle drove the nails the rest of the way into the coffin for many.


Turin the Mad wrote:
Gotta agree with NBH. Gas rationing did not go over well with the voting public. The Iran Hostage debacle drove the nails the rest of the way into the coffin for many.

What about the whole, "We're converting to metric! No we're not! Yes we are!" debacle? That one was quite fun...


I was eight when Carter left office, so I don't personally recall his presidency. I remember from economics he got stuck presiding over both stagflation -- which IIRC was thought to be impossible before that time -- and over the oil crisis. I can't really say how much blame he really bore for either.

I do admire what he has done since, though.


NobodysHome wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Gotta agree with NBH. Gas rationing did not go over well with the voting public. The Iran Hostage debacle drove the nails the rest of the way into the coffin for many.

What about the whole, "We're converting to metric! No we're not! Yes we are!" debacle? That one was quite fun...

Hah! Yeah that was ... fun. Best intentions ... by Gerald Ford. ;)


NobodysHome wrote:

What about the whole, "We're converting to metric! No we're not! Yes we are!" debacle? That one was quite fun...

I vaguely remember seeing gas on sale by the liter.

It's a better system, no doubt. But tell an American he *must* to do something...and well, good luck with that. Heck, they should have told us we *couldn't* switch...we'd have been on metric in two weeks... ;-)


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bugleyman wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

What about the whole, "We're converting to metric! No we're not! Yes we are!" debacle? That one was quite fun...

I vaguely remember seeing gas on sale by the liter.

It's a better system, no doubt. But tell an American he has to do something, and good luck with that. Heck, he should have told us we *couldn't* switch...we'd be on metric in two weeks... ;-)

'Muricans are too dumb handle the metric system.

Oh yeah?!

*144 hours later* HAH!!


bugleyman wrote:

I was eight when Carter left office, so I don't personally recall his presidency. I remember from economics he got stuck presiding over both stagflation -- which IIRC was thought to be impossible before that time -- and over the oil crisis. I can't really say how much blame he really bore for either.

I do admire what he has done since, though.

His presidency was a legacy of crises one after another, and the issue was a sense of inaction by him and by Congress to do anything about ANY of them. The metric system was a nice example: "OK. The rest of the world is on the metric system. We are going to convert."

"Wait! Some people don't like it!"
"Oh, maybe we should reconsider..."

It was all inaction and reconsidering and waffling and wondering what to do. He just came across as infinitely indecisive and wishy-washy. I recall a story about him getting attacked by a rabbit while he was in a fishing boat, and everyone was talking about how only Carter could be menaced by a rabbit.

But I'm taking the thread off-topic, *and* I need to wrap up my work day, so I'll toddle off to sillier threads now.

EDIT: OK, Turin, now you're making me look things up. Was it really Ford who blew the metric thing? I could have sworn it was Carter...

EDIT 2: Yep.

Quote:
Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States".

So Ford dumped it in Carter's lap to implement, and over his 4 years in office there was much fooferal over how to implement it, but nothing ever got done, and the effort eventually got shut down during the early Reagan years.


LOL we're not too dumb. After all, being easier is the point.

Though Metro Phoenix with its mile-based grid would be forever problematic...

Sovereign Court

Grey Lensman wrote:
Pan wrote:
One thing I noticed is that several times during Obama's speech he got distracted by screaming delegates. Not sure what they were saying but his reaction was as if it was something awful. At some point he was finally able to tune it out and get on with his say.
I read that Sanders had a lot of trouble getting people willing to be delegates for him, as many Democrats weren't willing. He had to turn to the further left protest movements, and it is showing in the shouting.

Ill cautiously agree as long as you are indicting they are more passionate participants than troublemakers. The primaries were pretty fierce and folks were passionate about Bernie. I think the email debacle was perfectly timed to be incendiary for the DNC. Folks are looking for something different and want it to be known.


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NobodysHome wrote:

His presidency was a legacy of crises one after another, and the issue was a sense of inaction by him and by Congress to do anything about ANY of them. The metric system was a nice example: "OK. The rest of the world is on the metric system. We are going to convert."

"Wait! Some people don't like it!"
"Oh, maybe we should reconsider..."

Yeah, sometimes being decisive can matter more than the decision itself. Maybe not often, but sometimes. :)


Often forgotten is that inaction is still technically an action.

Don't fall prey to 'Paralysis by Analysis', it's bad for you, and depending on your position, bad for everyone else too.


Pan wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:
Pan wrote:
One thing I noticed is that several times during Obama's speech he got distracted by screaming delegates. Not sure what they were saying but his reaction was as if it was something awful. At some point he was finally able to tune it out and get on with his say.
I read that Sanders had a lot of trouble getting people willing to be delegates for him, as many Democrats weren't willing. He had to turn to the further left protest movements, and it is showing in the shouting.
Ill cautiously agree as long as you are indicting they are more passionate participants than troublemakers. The primaries were pretty fierce and folks were passionate about Bernie. I think the email debacle was perfectly timed to be incendiary for the DNC. Folks are looking for something different and want it to be known.

The email debacle (wikileaks, I assume, not the longer term server thing) was of course timed to be incendiary. Not by coincidence.

I'd object to "folks" though, at least as a matter of emphasis. The people kicking up the noise and sticking to the Never Hillary cause really are a small minority, even of Bernie's supporters. Some are, as you say. Most Democrats and Democratic leaning indies are behind her.


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Eeeyup. In the immortal words of Rush "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

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