Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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So I'm looking at this archetype and I'm just want to make sure I understand how it works using PFS rules. You designate one of the elementals as a combatant and the others stay off to the side as non combatants. If anything I probably won't play the archetype but given season eights theme it kind of would be fun to play it.
Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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The original poster is referring to the sha'ir occultist archetype from the Occult Adventures book.
A quick check of the PFS Additional Resources document has the following on archetypes:
Archetypes: All archetypes on pages 88-125 are legal for play, except the cult master and psychic duelist. The reanimated medium (page 93) disregards the second paragraph of the channel self ability. The promethean alchemist (page 112) gains Skill Focus (Craft [alchemy] or Knowledge [arcana]) as a bonus feat instead of the promethean disciple discovery at 1st level; this still replaces both Brew Potion and Throw Anything. The ectochymist gains Skill Focus (Craft [alchemy] or Knowledge [religion]) as a bonus feat in place of Brew Potion.
So, it would appear to be legal. I suppose it might be a good idea to play a sha'ir who is tied to the element of an adventure. You could perhaps have different sha'irs tied to each element. The access to spells of a certain element could be useful next season.
The sha'ir seems to be inspired from the sha'ir spell caster from TSR's Al Qadim setting. On Golarion, Qadira, other parts of the Kelesh Empire, and Jalmeray might be good places for a home for a sha'ir.
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Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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That's because he misspelled it. It's the Sha'ir, an archetype for the Occultist.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Occultist%2 0Sha%E2%80%99ir
Well, you beat me to it.
I have not played any characters from Occult Adventures yet. (Honestly, I GM over 90 percent of my twice monthly sessions.) However, I could see a good synergy with an elemental race and the sha'ir archetype.
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Got it.
So the ultimate question is "How does this archetype work with the How many animals can I have at any given time? FAQ?"
That's a good question.
I'm actually hoping that FAQ gets revisited in either the Campaign Clarifications document or the new Season 8 Guide. There are now several instances where it gets questioned and the answer isn't clear.
Personally, in this instance, I'd be inclined to allow the character access to all of their Jin during a scenario, but only be able to use one during combat.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Got it.
So the ultimate question is "How does this archetype work with the How many animals can I have at any given time? FAQ?"
That's a good question.
I'm actually hoping that FAQ gets revisited in either the Campaign Clarifications document or the new Season 8 Guide. There are now several instances where it gets questioned and the answer isn't clear.
Personally, in this instance, I'd be inclined to allow the character access to all of their Jin during a scenario, but only be able to use one during combat.
Yeah. I was thinking that the sensible ruling would have one elemental be the primary one you can enlarge and boost its combat ability while the others are just there because they are your spellbook. I'm not trying to be cheesy more than I legimately like the theme of the archetype.
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No cheese-accusation here.
I just haven't been able to keep up with everything that's been released over the last... year or so.
I have a 9th level Kineticist, but she's a holdover from the Playtest. Both my Spiritualist and Psychic have only been played once.
Most of Occult Adventures I simply haven't touched.
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So this is one of those situations where I think the intent and effect is more important than trying to patch together a variety of FAQs and special case rulings. In order of applicability (as I see it).
1. Through level 13 you're never going to have more than two Jin available. You can get more elementals than that with a single casting of summon nature's ally III. It's not going to significantly slow the game down having both in the combat.
2. At level 7 you can have one manifested as a small elemental at all times. It takes a full round to augment the second one, so it's not a break in action economy vs having a "normal" combat pet.
3. The Jin are a serious liability as well as being a possible ally. Having to have them within 30' to cast puts them in harm's way very often. Even a large elemental (possible at 10th level) is relatively "squishy" for that tier. If PFS was to rule that one or more Jin are effectively invulnerable that's actually an advantage vs having one as a young small elemental until you spend a full round and some mental focus.
In summary:
The Jin should be present at all times unless the player decides to send them elsewhere. At 7th level the manifested Jin counts as your one combat animal or (if you have another combat animal) both Jin must be in their "natural" form (small, young elementals without special abilities).
As always it is incumbent on the player to know how her abilities function, including the changes due to the young template.
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I'm the last person to call any class or archetype a "bad" or "subpar" one (have you seen some of the deliberate choices I have made for my characters based on role-playing?) - and Sha'ir is not going to make me break that rule. It's a fun and flavorful option. However Sha'ir is one archetype you have to be very, very careful playing.
Unlike normal carried magic items - which are only subject to AoE effects if you personally roll a natural 1 on a save - the Jin is a distinct entity that is always affected. A young, small elemental has only 9 hit points! 7 if it is a fire elemental. A minimum caster level, average damage fireball is going to stagger any of them except the fire elemental on a successful save. It gets a little better at 2nd level when it can use half your HP instead of it's own, but it's still not great (and it'll probably be 3rd level before you have more than 19 HP). Even once you gain the Manifest Jin ability, a failed save is basically a death sentence to that Jin. No casting, resonant powers, or focus abilities from those schools until tomorrow.
If you do decide to use the Jin in melee combat most GMs are going to consider them legitimate targets even if they were avoiding them before. And easy ones to kill, even if you augment them. That medium earth elemental might stand up to one full-attack from a 9th level fighter but it's unlikely to survive a second round.
I know I'd certainly be choosing necromancy as one of my schools. And spending spell slots casting false lifes every day. A pretty high Con score is also very helpful.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I'm the last person to call any class or archetype a "bad" or "subpar" one (have you seen some of the deliberate choices I have made for my characters based on role-playing?) but Sha'ir is one you have to be very, very careful playing.
Unlike normal carried magic items - which are only subject to AoE effects if you personally roll a natural 1 on a save - the Jin is a distinct entity that is always affected. A young, small elemental has only 9 hit points! 7 if it is a fire elemental. A minimum caster level, average damage fireball is going to stagger any of them except the fire elemental on a successful save. Even once you gain the Manifest Jin ability, a failed save is basically a death sentence to that Jin. No casting, resonant powers, or focus abilities from those schools until tomorrow.
If you do decide to use the Jin in melee combat most GMs are going to consider them legitimate targets even if they were avoiding them before. And easy ones to kill, even if you augment them. That medium earth elemental might stand up to one full-attack from a 9th level fighter but it's unlikely to survive a second round.
I know I'd certainly be choosing necromancy as one of my schools. And spending spell slots casting false lifes every day.
You missed the scaling HP of the Jin. On the build I created you can hit 13 HP with the Jin. 12 HP if you switch out resonant powers.
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You missed the scaling HP of the Jin. On the build I created you can hit 13 HP with the Jin. 12 HP if you switch out resonant powers.I'm the last person to call any class or archetype a "bad" or "subpar" one (have you seen some of the deliberate choices I have made for my characters based on role-playing?) but Sha'ir is one you have to be very, very careful playing.
Unlike normal carried magic items - which are only subject to AoE effects if you personally roll a natural 1 on a save - the Jin is a distinct entity that is always affected. A young, small elemental has only 9 hit points! 7 if it is a fire elemental. A minimum caster level, average damage fireball is going to stagger any of them except the fire elemental on a successful save. Even once you gain the Manifest Jin ability, a failed save is basically a death sentence to that Jin. No casting, resonant powers, or focus abilities from those schools until tomorrow.
If you do decide to use the Jin in melee combat most GMs are going to consider them legitimate targets even if they were avoiding them before. And easy ones to kill, even if you augment them. That medium earth elemental might stand up to one full-attack from a 9th level fighter but it's unlikely to survive a second round.
I know I'd certainly be choosing necromancy as one of my schools. And spending spell slots casting false lifes every day.
Haha! edited it while you were typing!
:)
Anyway, the point was that you need to be very careful with your Jin.
If you go with a 14 Con, take a feat other than toughness, choose a school other than transmutation, and put your FCB into a racial specific (like an extra 1/2 point of focus) you'll have 18 HP at 2nd level.
16 Con is a significant investment for anyone. Even 14 is significant if your race doesn't have a +Con modifier option. So you really need to decide what kind of Occultist you are going to be; if you want those high hitpoints you're going to have to be bad at some things where other archetypes might be able to reach average ability. Tradeoffs.
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3. The Jin are a serious liability as well as being a possible ally. Having to have them within 30' to cast puts them in harm's way very often. Even a large elemental (possible at 10th level) is relatively "squishy" for that tier. If PFS was to rule that one or more Jin are effectively invulnerable that's actually an advantage vs having one as a young small elemental until you spend a full round and some mental focus.
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The Earth Jin can burrow. Having it travel in the ground beneath your feet is a protective strategy that can work in some terrains.
By the way, I've posted statblocks for the Jin if anyone wants to save some time applying the template.