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I'm starting a Carrion Crown game and I'm playing a Warpriest of ARQUEROS, whose favored weapon is a longspear. I originally decided to model my half-orc warpriest on THIS BUILD.
However, I've begun to think that those are a lot of feats to just be good at cleaving. Lot of Paizo-written fights have only one opponent and that'd make all those cleave-feats useless. So...
I'd like to ask for help in building a half-orc warpriest of Arqueros who uses a longspear. I know I want Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored. What else do I want?
In general, I'd like to have more than one option available in combat and be really good at Attacks of Opportunity and protecting my allies.
Any good thoughts on this? Thanks!
Cleaving is not very good, period. You also don't fight orcs nor goblins in this campaign so those feats will be wasted.
However, in this particular campaign, I'd heartily recommend the Vital Strike + Weapon of the Chosen featline. Focusing on these two (which are particularly good on Warpriests thanks to early access for a medium BAB class) will give you a lot of advantages against several of the enemies you'll face (assuming your GM usually applies cover rules).
Another good choice is Weapon Trick: Polearm. Haft Bash comes as a very useful addition to hit enemies in melee.
Shield Brace is also an excellent feat that you can pick up quite early.
Finally, I'd avoid Sacred Tattoo + Fate's Favored. It's a good combo but cheese is cheese.
Just to note Half-Orcs can also take the Human FCB...
And can have more skill ranks per level than a Human thanks to the Skilled and the Human-Raised alternate racials.
Cleaving is not very good, period.
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
You also don't fight orcs nor goblins in this campaign so those feats will be wasted.
Those are just the names of the feats. They having nothing to do with goblins or orcs.
However, in this particular campaign, I'd heartily recommend the Vital Strike + Weapon of the Chosen featline. Focusing on these two (which are particularly good on Warpriests thanks to early access for a medium BAB class) will give you a lot of advantages against several of the enemies you'll face (assuming your GM usually applies cover rules).
Weapon of the Chosen requires a swift action, which conflicts with swiftcasting divine fervor. Do you recommend it anyway?
Another good choice is Weapon Trick: Polearm. Haft Bash comes as a very useful addition to hit enemies in melee.
I like that one a lot. I hadn't seen it before.
Shield Brace is also an excellent feat that you can pick up quite early.
I can't find a feat named Shield Brace. Where is it found? Does it require a shield?
Finally, I'd avoid Sacred Tattoo + Fate's Favored. It's a good combo but cheese is cheese.
I'm okay with that. It's my first warpriest and a small party. I will bear up under the shame. :-)
Couple questions for you as there's a number of different replies -
1) How much Min/Max do you want your character?
Some? Enough to be useful. Lay it all on me and I'll do some of it!
2) Weapons - Is long spear set in stone? You don't actually have to use your deities favored weapon.
It's set, but not necessarily in stone. I named the character "The Spear of Arqueros", so...
3) Assuming you're using a 20 point buy for character creature. True or not?
True.
4) Is this a home game and anything not allowed?
It's not a PFS game. It's online here on the boards.
I have become a big fan of the Arsenal Chaplain, Warpriest Archetype.
I was sure someone would suggest it. I'm open to the idea, though I hate losing the second blessing and channeling and the armor bonuses.
Couple items I think very strongly about -
A) Ranks in UMD. Love this skill but with the skill ranks for Warpriests and CHA being a dump skill I have a tough time deciding on putting ranks in it or not. If I go with it, I grab the heaviest armor I can and try to use wands of Longstrider and Featherstep.B) Human is usually the preferred race for Warpriest. Two reasons why, (1) Preferred class bonus. Instead of making a choice between health or a skill rank when you level you can instead grab 1/6 of the class bonus feat. Spending 6 levels to grab the class bonus feat of Toughness is crazy good. (2) That extra skill rank. Warpriests are skill rank starved.
All true. But as Secret Wizard points out, half-orcs can get the 1/6 feat human FCB and also the human skill ranks.
C) Perception is not a class skill and you need to decide if you want to invest in it or not. If you're wearing heavy armor your AC and Flat footed AC will both be about the same. If you don't mind not making all those spot checks and being surprised I'd skip investing in it. I would grab the Feat: Combat Reflexes if you have a reach weapon as this would still allow you to take AOs while you're flat footed (surprise rounds and before your first combat action).
Although I usually start any builds by maximizing Perception, I think I'll forgo it for this build.
And yeah, I was thinking that a decent DEX and Combat Reflexes are probably a must for a reach warpriest.
PS. Someone else will have to help you out farther as it's late here and just browsing the forums before calling it a night.
Well thanks for looking in and giving your advice!
Sorry if I was too curt on Cleave - basically, the main problem is that it relies on hitting the first attack to do anything regarding a second attack, and that it's very unlikely enemies will just clutter in front of you rather than spreading out in flanking positions (unless they are super dumb).
I can think of a couple of situations in which it would be handy in this campaign. However, they are a couple of times.
Vital Strike, on the other hand, is a nice free boost to damage, works against any target, and produces the very useful effect of killing stuff faster, rather than splashing damage, which is not too exciting for martial classes (casters can do better).
Regarding Weapon of the Chosen, I think it's worth it. Spells run out and fast. That being said, Weapon of the Chosen is a FANTASTIC feat for this campaign. Not to give out any spoilers, but you'd do well to choose it as your first feat.
Once you get Greater Weapon of the Chosen and you can roll twice on every Vital Strike, it'd be pretty neat in general too.
Shield Brace comes from Armor Master's Handbook:
ShIeld Brace
You’ve mastered the art of balancing a polearm’s weight against a shield’s stability.
Prerequisites: Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit: You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
So quite useful to add shield AC while wearing a 2H weapon. A masterwork light shield provides no penalty.
EDIT: If you do have a small party as you say, I think you'll be better served by taking the Skilled or Human-Raised alternate traits over Sacred Tattoo. Skills are quite useful in this campaign.
Your 12th level warpriest feat should be pin down.
That's a cool feat and exactly the sort of thing I want to do!
Sorry if I was too curt on Cleave
Not at all! I really meant thank you!
- basically, the main problem is that it relies on hitting the first attack to do anything regarding a second attack, and that it's very unlikely enemies will just clutter in front of you rather than spreading out in flanking positions (unless they are super dumb).
I can think of a couple of situations in which it would be handy in this campaign. However, they are a couple of times.
I totally agree. That's why I began to rethink my projected build.
Vital Strike, on the other hand, is a nice free boost to damage, works against any target, and produces the very useful effect of killing stuff faster, rather than splashing damage, which is not too exciting for martial classes (casters can do better).
And it's a good choice for a 3/4 BAB class which won't get a lot of iterative attacks.
Regarding Weapon of the Chosen, I think it's worth it. Spells run out and fast. That being said, Weapon of the Chosen is a FANTASTIC feat for this campaign. Not to give out any spoilers, but you'd do well to choose it as your first feat.
Good to hear. That's solid intel without spoilers. I do own every AP and I read Carrion Crown when it first came out. But I only remember the broad strokes.
Once you get Greater Weapon of the Chosen and you can roll twice on every Vital Strike, it'd be pretty neat in general too.
Shield Brace comes from Armor Master's Handbook:
ShIeld Brace
You’ve mastered the art of balancing a polearm’s weight against a shield’s stability.
Prerequisites: Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit: You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.So quite useful to add shield AC while wearing a 2H weapon. A masterwork light shield provides no penalty.
I can't find Shield Brace in either www.d20pfsrd.com or the PRD. I'd like to use it. Are you sure on the name?
EDIT: If you do have a small party as you say, I think you'll be better served by taking the Skilled or Human-Raised alternate traits over Sacred Tattoo. Skills are quite useful in this campaign.
Any particular skills?
Channeling for Warpriest - Bad idea, it's just too costly. If you grab Toughness and have a decent CON, (and maybe grab the Fey foundling Feat at 1st level), use the 2nd level spell Shield Other and use that Fervor to Swift Action heal yourself with a Cure Spell instead.
Okay. I can see that.
Not sure I'd spend the 3 feats for Weapon of the Chosen if I'm using a Long Spear. Don't consider the feat investment vs what it boosts for using a spear as a good pay off. Think there's a number of pole arm feats that would work better.
Is that because the longspear doesn't have an expanded crit range?
The big polearm chain that I can think of is the spear dancer combat style but that's probably not a good fit here... I like the chain a lot but it's like 6-7 feats to finish and it's really focused on using it as a double weapon. You lose reach when using it as a double weapon until the final feat, but even then you only treat the end(s) as having reach during your turn which makes it bad for a reach build... You can fix that but it'll cost at least 2 more feats: another combat style feat and combat style master (so you can use a free action to enter spear dance at the start of your turn and another free action to switch out of it at the end). That's like 9 feats to pull off, plus combat reflexes... A warpriest with the human FCB is one of basically 2 classes that can actually afford to do that but it takes a long time to come together and may not even be worth it...
If you read the tree and fall in love with it go for it, otherwise you're probably better off with something simpler.
So, what do we think of this progression? Note: I'll be a half-orc, but using the human FCB to get an extra combat feat every 6 levels. Also note that Arsenal Chaplain gets a free Quicken Blessing feat at 7th level.
FEAT SLOTS:
1 – Weapon of the Chosen, Weapon Focus (longspear)
2 –
3 – Combat Reflexes, Weapon Trick: Polearm
4 –
5 – Improved Weapon of the Chosen
6 – Vital Strike, Lunge
7 – Greater Weapon of the Chosen, Quicken Blessing
8 –
9 – Shield Focus, Shield Brace
10 –
11 – Pin Down
12 – Improved Vital Strike, Combat Patrol
13 – Stand Still
14 –
15 - Feat, Bonus Feat
Not a big fan of Weapon Spec myself. Damage bonus too small in the scheme of things. Lunge is much better.
I'm wishing I had a spot early on for Toughness, even if it's not the world's greatest feat.
And although I really would like more skill points, I'm not convinced that giving up Sacred Tatoo is a good idea. +2 to all my saves (with Fate's Favored) is just so much better than 1 extra skill point per level. If I give that up I should just go with human.
What I'm really mulling ove is Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain. Its utility isn't in doubt, just its flavor. But I guess a servant of the God of bodyguards and community shouldn't wonder at being focused on war.
You could have both Sacred Tattoo and the extra skill point if you give up Darkvision for the Skilled racial.
Anyway, I'm sure that one of your players will go with a skill heavy class.
What's your point buy though? On low point buys, Toughness is amazing.
And for the record, Arqueros is a god of War too. It's one of his domains.
What's your point buy though? On low point buys, Toughness is amazing.
20 points.
Then you should be fine with the typical 16/12/14/10/15/7 arrangement.
Thanks, folks! Very helpful.