Are Rewards "Separate and Identifiable"?


Pathfinder Adventure Card Society


This is another technical and specific question that pertains to organized PACG Guild play.

Last evening, Pat and Alex play Scenario # 2-1E with Valeros and Damiel. After completing it successfully, they see that draw pile of cards includes two Blessings B (because the Villain got away twice), and various Items and Weapons. Alex says that Damiel cannot use Allies due to present Cards List, and is pleased with his Armor, Items, and Weapons. Alex wants a Blessing for Damiel. Pat says Valeros is happy with his Allies, Armor, Items, and Weapons, too, but wants a Blessing.

Reward for completing Scenario # 2-1E is a Bonus deck upgrade, and that to the draw pile each Character may add Armor, Blessing, or Item. Pat didn't know about the bonus deck upgrade part because she hadn't printed it out from online, but Alex thinks that there is one based on Reward wording, though he failed to bring the print-out. Alex decides to look for his print-out up the next day at home and email the information to Pat. Regardless, Pat picks a random Blessing B from the Base Set box. Alex writes down a list of all cards in the draw pile, including Pat's Blessing B, but pends Damiel's Reward.

Q1. Are Rewards "separate and identifiable" from deck upgrades?

My answer: "I believe so, yes. This is because they are distinct in sections of Guild Guide."

<--->
Draw pile now includes 3 Blessings. Pat has chosen a Blessing B as the deck upgrade for Valeros, but doesn't has Reward rules confusion ("bonus deck upgrade"). Alex hasn't yet drawn a random card of any kind.

Q2. May she choose Blessing B again, as bonus deck upgrade?

My answer: "I believe so, yes. This is because 'Cards Don't Memorize': One card cannot know what any other card is doing."

Q3. May Alex also choose the third Blessing B, or possible a fourth Blessing (if drawn), as a deck upgrade or bonus deck upgrade?

My answer: "Alex may choose one Blessing B, but not two. This is because Pat already chose one Blessing."

Please let me know what you think. My area doesn't have a "separate and identifiable" (sorry, couldn't help it) PACG Venture Official.


The reward in 2-1E is added to the deck upgrade pile. When it's added to the deck upgrade pile, it's communal.

So in this case, you have 3 blessings and various items and weapons in your deck upgrade pile. Each person can choose 2 deck upgrades from this pile, where they would normally be only able to choose 1. You choose those random rewards to the deck upgrade pile at the same time, so Alex should also have drawn a random card from the game box for it.

Pat and Alex play Scenario 2-1E. The deck upgrade pile has 2 Blessing Bs, and let's say for example's sake there are 3 Item Bs and 3 Weapon Bs as well. Pat and Alex choose and draw their random cards to add to the pile. Pat chooses Blessing, and Alex may also choose Blessing. Let's say he doesn't though and wants to try for an Armor, but draws an Armor B.

So now the deck upgrade pile includes 3 Blessing Bs, 3 Item Bs, 3 Weapon Bs, and 1 Armor B.

Pat wants 2 Blessing Bs and Alex wants 2 Blessing Bs as well, since he was aiming for an Armor 1. Since there aren't enough blessings to satisfy both of them, they would roll off to see who gets the second Blessing. The other person would have to choose another type of card.

In reality, Pat and Alex would negotiate to have one of them get 2 Blessings and the other person would get something else and get the Blessing later, but that's only if both of them play with each other regularly.


I appreciate this answer, and it made me look up something else I think we might've been doing wrong. Guild Guild 9, 10 and Wrath of the Righteous Rulebook 18 (the most recent rules) seem to allow Players to choose deck upgrades of the same type, but we've been doing it as one available type of deck upgrade.

Here is the example, which after reading the relevant sections I'm beginning to think is incorrect:

Alex and Pat are unsuccessful in completing Scenario # 2-1B. Nonetheless, they are eligible for deck upgrades. Draw pile includes one Ally B, two Item B, one Item 1, and two Weapon B. Pat chooses the Item 1, currently Valeros only has Item B Basic. Because of Pat's choice, Alex now cannot choose any Item upgrades at all. Reluctantly he chooses a Weapon B, even though happy with all Damiel's Weapons; he still wants some sort of deck upgrade.

This was incorrect? Alex could choose Item 1, and Pat could possibly choose Item B deck upgrades?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That is incorrect; Alex can choose one of the two Item B's to use as an upgrade. Alex cannot choose the Item 1 that Pat chose, and if they also got an Ally 1, Alex cannot choose the Ally 1 but take an Item instead. If they got two Item 1's in the pool, they both can pick an Item 1.


Not sure what you mean by "Guild Guide 9, 10". I can't find the passage you quote in the current PSACG guide (version 3.0). Maybe you should download it again.


I see that we've been doing it wrong, and this video cleared up a lot. My Guild lead plays smartphone app "Pathfinder Adventures" and even though that is not intended for organized play, it has a fairly good demonstration on upgrading the deck.

By "9, 10", I meant page nine and page ten of the Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild Guide, Version 3.0. I attempt to cut down on excessive words (such as "the") as much as possible since I'm already too "wordy" as it is. So I use "Guild Guide" or sometimes merely "Guide" with the page numbers I'm referencing.


Like I said, your version is out of date. I just downloaded it, and what you quote isn't in the guide.


It was a misunderstanding of how to upgrade decks. Thanks for letting me know about the new Guide, too.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The way deck upgrades work in the app (and in home games) is completely different than how they work in OP. In the app/home games you swap cards out, so you can take an Item 1 from the pool and put an Item B in there instead (the one from your deck that you swapped out for the Item 1). In OP, you do not swap cards -- you simply take them (e.g. cards you're replacing are not subsequently added to the pool). The app/home game also allows trading cards between players, which is not allowed in OP. Furthermore, you can only take one upgrade in OP, whereas in the app/home game you can take as many as there are.

It follows the same basic concepts, but the execution is completely different -- do not mimic how it works. The video may be correct (I haven't watched it with sound, but the description links to organized play so it may apply to OP), so that may be a better reference than the app.


Yes. I sent this thread and the link to the YouTube video to my Guild lead and he saw that we'd been doing it incorrectly. I also see what you say about the home games and app vs. Organized Play and deckbuilding differences.

I've also found out that we have a stand-in PACG Venture Official in my area who I can pose questions to.

Grand Lodge

Just so you know, Houstonian, there are a few VOs on these messageboards and we don't always agree. You can always ask your questions here and we'll try to get you answers.

:-)


Theryon Stormrune wrote:

Just so you know, Houstonian, there are a few VOs on these messageboards and we don't always agree. You can always ask your questions here and we'll try to get you answers.

:-)

I disagree.

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