Right, so it's been a decade or so since I played 3.5 and this is my group's first pathfinder campaign. I'm trying to make an enchanted item and my comprehension of the rules could use a nudge.
Basically I need a non-wand item that gives me a 5xday spell. I know this can be done more easily with a wand, but I am stuck having to make it a non-wand.
Non-wands use either command word or continuous effect, since I don't want a continuous effect, the formula is:
Spell Level (2) x Caster Level (3) x 1800
Since it is a charged item, I get the 1/2 discount for it having a limit. So...
10800 x 0.5
It is 5xday, so no further discount there.
I am making the item myself, so another 1/2 discount.
5400 x 0.5
I am also putting a class restriction on the item
2700 x 0.7
Assuming I'm right, the ring would end up costing me 1,890 gold to make. Right?
If you went to the chart to price an item that gives 5/day spell, you did it wrong.
What spell?
What other item gives unlimited uses of the same spell (because 4 or 5 or more per day is the same as unlimited)?
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
The "Charged (50 Charges) 1/2 unlimited use base price" is for items with a finite number of charges (ie Wand like). Since you aren't making an item with a finite number of charges you don't get the discount.
Instead you get the Divide by (5 divided by charges per day) which you accounted for.
I think most GMs will nix the discount for class restrictions but you are right in that it exists.
But first and foremost the price guideline for magic items is find a similar item and price it comparatively. So depending on what spell you pick you could see some pretty drastic fluctuation in pricing.
Alright, so you've missed step 1 on making a magic item: compare it to existing items. The table you're using is the last resort, not the first.
Xelah wrote: Spell Level (2) x Caster Level (3) x 1800 This is correct.
Xelah wrote: Since it is a charged item, I get the 1/2 discount for it having a limit. So... This is wrong. The exact line is "Charged (50 charges)". Does your ring have a maximum of 50 charges? Does it run out and become worthless?
Xelah wrote: It is 5xday, so no further discount there.
I am making the item myself, so another 1/2 discount.
10800 x 0.5
This is correct.
Xelah wrote: I am also putting a class restriction on the item Hah! That's not how this works. A class restriction must actually be a restriction. It's not just a free discount.
Your total is 5,400 to make it. And then the final step, running it by your GM.
Bob Bob Bob wrote: Alright, so you've missed step 1 on making a magic item: compare it to existing items. The table you're using is the last resort, not the first. I did actually. The similar item is a higher level version of the spell with a higher caster level. The listed price for the item was cheaper than the formula said it should be.
Cauldron of the Dead, casts animate dead on bodies placed inside, allows non-casters to control corpses. No daily limit on how many zombies can be made, only on how many it can control for the user. Costs 30,000... 15,000 to make.
I want a ring of Lesser Animate Dead that makes skeletons, doesn't control any for the user, and has a limit on how many it can raise in a day.
Bob Bob Bob wrote: Xelah wrote: Since it is a charged item, I get the 1/2 discount for it having a limit. So... This is wrong. The exact line is "Charged (50 charges)". Does your ring have a maximum of 50 charges? Does it run out and become worthless?
Fair point, but what is the point of a daily restriction then? I could take the 5xday restriction off since there is no discount for it. Personally I think not being able to completely raise the entire orc tribe to do my bidding in an afternoon to be a meaningful restriction, but if the rules say it isn't meaningful, I could take it off. (Not trying to be overly facetious here, 5xday isn't a meaningful restriction on some spells, but others with lasting effects... )
You are looking at a spell with expensive components, this also factors into the cost. See the notes on the last line of the chart for items using spell effects.
Java Man wrote: You are looking at a spell with expensive components, this also factors into the cost. See the notes on the last line of the chart for items using spell effects. That part we get, just need the price for the rest of the item.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Actually the cauldron is pretty close to right on what the chart says.
They did fudged the material component by changing that in herbs every time you use it, but that's always really tricky when the component is so variable. And it does seem strange that the controllable undead is only 12hd, when I'd expect 20hd at CL 5.
But's right at Spell Level (3) * Caster Level (5) * Use Activated 2,000gp = 30,000gp.
Technically it seems really easy to drop it to Spell Level (2) * Caster Level (3) * 2,000gp = 12,000gp, for your lesser Animate Dead ring.
But I tend to think your ring is actually still fairly close the cauldron. So I would more likely go something like:
1) Unlimited to 5 uses per day. No discount. Why, because if I discount this you are going to want the same discount on every item you craft when in terms of power level 5/day is a lot of uses.
2) Does not grant you control over any animated dead. Okay something to that, so -10% discount.
3) Limited to small/medium untemplated undead. Even more significant -20%.
4) Thematically appropriate cauldron to easily concealable/removable ring. +5%.
For a total of 25% off the standard price. Or 30% if you leave it as a cauldron which I would prefer.
But that's more art then science. And I am going to try to have a really firm grasp of what you are trying to accomplish before I go even that far.
If you are making it, there is absolutely no difference between unlimited and 5/day. They literally cost the same. As Maezer said, it's really easy to convert the Cauldron of the Dead to the Cauldron of the Lesser Dead. You just multiply the price by 6/15 (for 12,000). Also solves the material component problem. I also don't see any problems changing zombies to skeletons. Every other change introduces new issues, new interactions, and way more questions.
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