While I can understand you want to overcome the penalty to strength with a Kobold, choosing to play a bloodrager but maximizing dex just isn't going to work.
Bloodragers need to prioritize strength>con>cha>everything else. Not to mention that dragon disciple is going to give you even more strength and con when you take levels in it. So trying to go dex based is just a mistake that isn't going to work well.
Also, as an FYI Tail attachments work as manufactured weapon instead of natural attacks. So they're not primary or secondary.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Heh I don't think you are crazy I did the same thing only it was Kobold inquisitor into Dragon Disciple (Kobolds of Golarian book. Highly recommend for this sort of idea) but that was before bloodrager was around.
It is doable and fun but the thing to check is with your DM and Party. Is it viable for a kobold to be part of the party and will the party be okay with a slightly ill optimized front liner.
I do agree with Claxon Str rather than dex focus works better here.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is definitely possible to go dex-based, even as a bloodrager. All you need is the Urban Bloodrager archetype. From there, you just need the weapon finesse feat, an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, and as many natural attacks as you can get.
You get claws from your bloodline, so that's covered. You need to get a bite from a trait, either take adopted (choosing half-orc) and tusked OR Mother's Teeth, worship Lamashtu and take adopted (choosing goblin). The Tail Terror feat is definitely worth it, any extra attack helps (and secondary attacks can have their penalties reduced with the multiattack feat). Natural attack builds focus on getting as many natural attacks at once, so you'll need other ways to find more as you level up, like the Helm of the Mammoth Lord and the Wyvern Cloak.
Going dex-based will waste some of the dragon disciples strength bonuses, but you will stay combat effective. If you want to go strength-based, you can honestly just eat the racial -4 to strength and be the normal power-attacking two-handed fighter Bloodrager. You can also Variant Multiclass Sorcerer (which is here) or take Eldritch Heritage with the Orc or Abyssal bloodlines to get some of that strength bonus back.
A character like this, either strength or dex-based, won't be optimal, but they should be effective in any adventuring group. Going Bloodrager into Dragon Disciple is very rarely a bad idea.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you're playing a kobold, then you must've played Neverwinter Nights a few years back. That kobold companion Deekin was gut-bustingly funny. Pathetic, but funny.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you're playing a kobold, then you must've played Neverwinter Nights a few years back. That kobold companion Deekin was gut-bustingly funny. Pathetic, but funny.
My favorite Companion was Grimgnaw. He was like a Pharasmin/Kuthite Monk. He was spot on when he saw an 'aura of death' surrounding the main character, too. I was a LE Monk at the time, and much blood was shed.
Deekin in the most loyal companion though. His casual banter over the campaigns is worth taking him along.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you're playing a kobold, then you must've played Neverwinter Nights a few years back. That kobold companion Deekin was gut-bustingly funny. Pathetic, but funny.
You're kidding, right? Deekin is Badass Adorable incarnate, standing up to even Hell itself for his best friend! Seriously, I teared up a bit before the final battle. I was so proud of him!
Ahem...yes, Deekin engendered a lifetime respect for kobolds in me.
OP, how combat optimized is your group? If they are super combat optimized, they may disappointed that you can't hold your end of the load. If not, go for the fun with gusto.
Seriously consider the bloodrager archtypes.
One gives you the ability to trade a bloodrage power for a barbarian rage power. Some of those can give another natural attack.
Another archtype gives you bonus damage to polymorph effects. Which will be some of your natural attacks.
Dex based will probably be better early and mid game. Str based will probably be batter late game. You just don't have the bonus feats to take real advantage of dex based in the long run.
Read the dragon disciple guides. They are a bit out of date. But still full of good ideas.
My wife plays a kobold sorc/dragon-disciple - it's badass. Go for it. But don't play Deekin!
There's a Kobold Feat that eliminates the Strength penslty somewhere.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My mistake, it's available to any Small size race, it was just in a Kobold book.
Assuming interpretation #2 is what his GM goes with though.
Kobolds are great! Don't let anyone insult you for trying to play one.
Currently, I'm running a Kobold Dragon Herald Bard in one campaign and running a Kobold campaign of my own on the side.
I'll echo that your best bet is probably to try to get as many natural attacks as you can. My campaign currently has a Kobold Bloodrager who uses DEX, Piranha Strike, and full attacks with Bite/Claw/Claw/Tail and can get some good damage off of it.
The Small But Deadly Feat looks like it'll help your damage, but not attack, so staying as DEX with weapon finesse might be helpful just so you can more reliably hit things. [Thanks Sundakan! I didn't know this feat existed & will be passing it along to my group.] Unfortunately I don't think there is any way for you to get DEX to damage with either tail attachments or natural attacks, so this may be one of your best damage boost options available.
In order to get a bite, consider the Dragonmaw alternate racial trait for Kobolds. You have to give up your +1 natural armor bonus, but in return you get a permanent 1d4 bite attack and a once per day +1d6 energy effect on your bite.
|
I would go Str. based, focus on getting a lot of additional natural attacks and VMC Order of the Flame cavalier with extra challenge for sweet bonus damage to all your natural attacks and not worry about the -4 Str that will be negated by the dragon disciple bonus and wont cost you weapon finesse and agile enchantment.
With the Dex bonus, it's a 6 point difference between Str and Dex, assuming equal pre-starting stats. +3 to attack and damage is definitely worth the cost of a feat and a +1 equivalent weapon enhancement. A Strength build would get only +2 to attack, +1 to damage, and a bit better DR bypassing ability from investing in Weapon Focus and an extra +1 on the weapon.
It's also worth noting that since the character is starting around level 7 they can easily start with both the feat and the Agile Amulet.
However for a Dex build I would suggest sticking with Urban Bloodrager instead of taking Dragon Disciple. Bloodrager//DD is already not as powerful as it looks at first glance; the stat adjustments are similar to those you get from the more powerful versions of Bloodrage and the DD also loses some BAB and the ability to self-buff as a free action when entering bloodrage. Aside from the unusually effective bite attack at level 2, you're mostly trading peak effectiveness while raging for more reliability outside of rage - and a high level bloodrager should be raging most of the time. For a Dex build that would be essentially wasting the Strength bonus (and doesn't get as much kick from the 1.5 x Str on the bite), the Dex increase from Greater and Mighty Controlled Bloodrage is a much better deal.
EDIT: Though the bite's 1.5xStr does give you a more favourable Power Attack damage bonus, the +2 Str from DD2 helps you qualify for Power Attack in the first place at level 7 (good for a natural weapons build even without the bite boost), and you'd get +1 Natural Armour (plus another point if you'd otherwise be trading your racial armour for Dragonmaw). I'm still not sure the 2-level dip is a great idea, but it seems a lot better than going all the way into DD.
Str +4 Con +2 Int +2
+2 Will save
+10 HP (average)
Natural armour +3 (on top of the bloodline)
Bite attack d4+d6 energy + 1 1/2 Str
+30ft to your fly speed
+1 use/day breath weapon
Form of the dragon II 2/day (outside bloodraging - you already get it bloodraging)
Dragon Disciple gives up:
Greater and Mighty Bloodrage: +4 Dex while bloodraging, ability to self-buff as a free action when entering bloodrage.
+4 Will vs Enchantment while bloodraging
3 points BAB
3 levels spellcasting progression
3 additional spells known from bard/magus list
20 rounds of rage (almost half your rounds)
Tireless bloodrage
Also, as an FYI Tail attachments work as manufactured weapon instead of natural attacks. So they're not primary or secondary.
True, but primary Bite/Claw/Claw and secondary Tail is a better routine than manufactured tail attachment and secondary bite/claw/claw, even before you add in the expense of enhancing both a weapon and an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
|
I did something like this once. I went Barbarian, but the principle was the same.
Basically, pick up tail terror, use that Dexterity to get two-weapon fighting, multiattack, and get yourself a monk's robe + helm of the mammoth lords.
Your attack routine ends up being Kick/Kick/Kick/Kick/Bite/Claw/Claw/Tail/Gore. It's pretty fun. The penalties stink, but w/e. It's fun making all those attacks. Plus, you get to REALLY get some mileage out of that Amulet of Mighty Fists. A Furious one actually becomes almost cost effective. If you have the feats (hint: you won't) you could consider Arcane Strike instead of Power Attack. It boosts your damage without the to-hit penalty.
If you have access to mid level a wizard and druid it might be more cost efficient to get magic fang greater permanency on your hits. Be sure to get a ring of counter spelling(greater dispel magic) if you do this
Str is better in the long haul here as it is much easier than trying to get dex to add to damage. Yeah sure the str starts 6 points lower but that changes quickly once you get into DD. By the time your can get the amulet with the dex to damage enchant your str will have already caught up. Better off getting furious instead. Also form of the dragon gives great bonuses to strength even if it isn't all day
Also welcome congratulations on your first kobold
If you're really set on Bloodrager -> Dragon Disciple, I still strongly recommend strength based over dex based. This gets you the most potential out of dragon disciple. If you wanted to go dex based, I would just go pure Urban Bloodrager.
With the Draconic Bloodline and Dragon Disciple I think natural attacks are going to be an easier way to go. One amulet of mighty fists is all you need. Claw, claw, bite, tail will be pretty effective.
This also works better when you actually polymorph into a dragon as the spells tend to increase you strength and con and give you more natural attacks. If you're already built for that, it has better synergy.
Sorry, I cannot see your post without thinking of the Heinlen quote, "I met a lizard who claimed he was descended form a brontosaurus on his mother's side...."
I love kobolds! Despite their mechanical disadvantage, they are one of my favorites. I definitely think that you can be Dex-based. Along with being an Urban Bloodrager and taking Weapon Finesse, you can add dex to damage if you get Slashing Grace, which you can apply to tail attachments, so it works with Tail Terror.
|
Ok, now what i am gonna ask for here i know the first thing people will say is... "WHAT? dont play that, what are you thinking... thats the worst idea ever!!! God man, you need mental help.... and so on.
Sanity aside, i am planning on making a.... wait for it.... Kobold! and not just any Kobold, a Kobold Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple....I know right? I have looked at forums and guides and they all say, "Dont play a Kobold, They suck, no good for nothing, "WORST CHOICE EVER", but no one said i was S.M.R.T
I would like help to make this build feasible. Not criticized for my choice, just help making it fun to play.
Basic stats so far at 1st, 11/16/12/10/10/13. Can be changed, just a guideline. Will be starting at approx 7th lvl.... depending on if and when i die next....
5lvls Bloodrager, rest DD.
Plan on taking tail terror feat at lvl 1 and using tail attachments as main weapons. Weapon finesse, and some way for dex to damage.
I just wanted to day that I think this thread is pure AWESOME!
Ok I just have to say, why are Kobolds so bad? Maybe early on they arn't to good, but Dragon Paragon is awesome.
Also though they never seemed good for standard fights imo. They do have great archetypes for traps. So laying traps and running around, or flying just seems like it would be fun.
The Enlarge Tail spell seems particularly relevant to a Tail Terror-using build, but unfortunately it's not on the bloodrager's spell list.
Does anyone know a way of getting it there, or are potions the best solution?
* I can't think of any way to get an unrestricted feat at level 10 so anything with a level 10 prerequisite that isn't a combat feat or on something like the wizard bonus feat list has to wait a level.
A 10th level Rogue can take the Advanced Rogue Talent "Feat".
That is the only method I can think of without going to a 3rd party product. If you are willing to go to a 3rd party product, the True Professional archetype in Glory Rogue lets you take any single feat that you qualify for with a single level dip.
I'm guessing you are playing a Kobold for the aesthetics and the concept rather than any kind of mechanical stuff.
Soooo, if I'm right and you're wanting to play a tiny dragon who wants to be a big one, here's a little tidbit you might like-
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common... Less common humanoids, such as lizardfolk, catfolk, tengus, and others, can also produce aasimars, though given these races’ exotic appearance, members of the more common races may have trouble telling such aasimars apart from their kin.
Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic. Non-human aasimars do not possess any of the racial abilities of their base race. However, they are usually raised in the same cultural context as other members of their base race, and thus generally adopt the same fighting style as their peers, use the same types of weapons and armor, and study the same skills.
So, as long as there isn't some racial trait of kobolds that is intrinsic to your build, you could be a Kobold Aasimar and have a much better set of attributes and abilities to build off of.
Your GM might insist on you taking Racial Heritage Kobold in order to qualify for Tail Terror, but other than that you should be good.
Ok I just have to say, why are Kobolds so bad?
It's mostly the stats combined with not having much that's particularly good to go with it, then throwing light sensitivity on top of that. Light sensitivity isn't the worst thing, but when you look at the rest of the chassis it does feel pretty mean spirited.