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If your hand is being occupied with a form of attack, or to help execute a form of attack, with a weapon, then you can't use it to perform another manner of attack. Case in point, the FAQ specifically references being unable to use a Gauntlet to attack with because that same hand is being used to perform attacks with a two-handed weapon, which is for the entire course of the theoretical TWF action.
Yes. And this is 100% irrelevant to the current topic because you aren't using 'both hands' to attack. You are using 1 hand to attack, and 1 hand to free action reload. Just like if you use a free action to quickdraw, you can still use that hand to attack with the weapon you drew.
Using hands for non-attacking free actions does not invalidate using them for attacking, and the armor spikes FAQ doesn't apply.
When you are attacking with a two-handed weapon, BOTH hands are used to attack, which is why you get 1.5x STR. That's why you can't use one of those hands to execute another attack via TWF.
In fact, you are. If you were only using one hand to attack, you would only ever get one attack from the pre-loaded gun, because then it's out of ammo and needs to be reloaded, which means your other hand being used to reload it is, in fact, being used to help perform attacks; or to be more precise, more than one attack. It's exactly the same as trying to attack with a bow and arrow, or a crossbow and bolt, you're using one hand to hold the weapon, and the other to load the ammunition into the weapon. This is no different.
So quite frankly, you're telling me that I can TWF with Bows and Crossbows to get more than two attacks. Which is patently absurd. Last I checked, in order to TWF with Bows, much less Crossbows, you need a specific archetype or ability to do so. After all, if we're going to play the...
1) The Bow Nomad is using two two-handed weapons. Not two one handed weapons. That case is meaningless to this conversation.
2) Ranged weapons o interact with two-weapon fighting. For instance, look at "Sword and Pistol".
3) You don't have to be holding a weapon at the beginning of a full attack to use the weapon during the attack. It should be no different for a two-weapon attack. The only difference should be in what penalties you take.
"If you have Quick Draw, you could even start the round wielding only one weapon, make your main attack with it, draw the second weapon as a free action after your first attack, and use that second weapon to make your iterative attack (an "iterative attack" is an informal term meaning "extra attacks you get from having a high BAB"). As long as you're properly using the BAB values for your iterative attacks, and as long as you're not exceeding the number of attacks per round granted by your BAB, you are not considered to be using two-weapon fighting, and therefore do not take any of the penalties for two-weapon fighting. "
You do have to select what weapons you will use in which hands. But you do not have to have them in your hands at the beginning of the attack, since no where does it say that. You will need to use two separate weapons, since you must select two weapons.
"In other words, once you decide you're using two-weapon fighting to get that extra attack on your turn (which you have to decide before you take any attacks on your turn), that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack, and I apply two-weapon fighting penalties.""
And the armor spike FAQ does not modify this. As when it explains using a two-handed weapon, so primary hand is on the two-handed weapon and off-hand is on the two-handed weapon, thus invalidating the ability to select to have the off-hand use a different weapon.
Of course, this also invalidates the ability to continue combat if you are disarmed during a TWF attack. Since you don't have the weapon to attack with. Unlike how it would work in a full attack.I think the real question that should be asked is... do you get another extra attack if you also have Rapid Shot? Seems broken, but the game says yes.
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Are we suggesting now that when using two weapons to make two weapon attacks that you aren't using both hands to attack in a round?
I feel like that's where we are at. Is it?
If you allow for all the free actions, no, the OP wasn't suggesting that. He is stating that the player frees up the hand during the series of attacks to rotate the barrel.
So, fire, poof gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate, unpoof gun, fire, poof other gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate fire.... so on and so far as per this example.
It is an unconventional solution that could work. But it seems silly enough to disallow it. Then again, ranged combat always seems silly if you really count all the actions it takes to play a ranged character of any type. All of our characters tend to get silly as they level. It is in the nature of Pathfinder.
I mean... a fully described and legal option to do what he is wanting to do is literally juggling the guns while firing them.
It comes down to "free hands". Do you have one if your hand becomes free during a series of attacks? If you are TWF, you are limited which specific weapon may be used in which hand during the attack... but nothing says you can't free up the hand during the attack to do things other than attacking.
That is how the juggling option works, without needing to have some other means of "dropping" the weapon and then "picking it back up" as free actions such as the case of the storing gloves.
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It sounds like the pepperbox pistols used in Pathfinder are the old flintlock ones since they require a free hand to spin the barrels. The next evolution of this weapon, before the modern version of the revolver was mass produced, was the percussion cap pepperbox. The percussion cap version uses a kind of double action where each pull of the trigger fires the weapon and rotates the barrels so you don't need to rotate them by hand.
If it was my campaign I would allow my players to pay extra for percussion cap pepperboxes and dispense with all this pistol juggling nonsense.
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So quite frankly, you're telling me that I can TWF with Bows and Crossbows to get more than two attacks. Which is patently absurd. Last I checked, in order to TWF with Bows, much less Crossbows, you need a specific archetype or ability to do so.1) The Bow Nomad is using two two-handed weapons. Not two one handed weapons. That case is meaningless to this conversation.
Further, the Xill does the same thing (two bows at the same time) without any special ability stating that it is allowed to do so.
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Posts first sentence says the gunslinger is doing actions to devastating effect, then asks if it is legal, and any post where it even remotely not legal actions, it is met with, "I'm not changing anything". Why even ask the question? It is just Trolling. Bad enough to allow Pepperboxs, then Two-Weapon usage, and ignoring the loading rules, or trying to make a secondary item override rules is just trouble. Solve your own problem, since it is a free-for-all game, just give him revolvers and then a non issue. Oh and better yeah, toss in some quick loaders, so zero down time.
I have a gunslinger player in my game who dual-wields pepperbox pistols to devastating effect. Several people have come forward in an unrelated thread to tell me that this shouldn't be possible, as you need two hands to turn the barrels for the next shot (thus precluding having two hands available to dual-wield). It's even been likened to wielding a pair of longbows.
I for one don't think it follows. Pepperboxes are clearly listed as one-handed weapons and, unlike two-handed weapons like bows, follow the rules for one-handed weapons.
My player in question uses a glove of storing to free up one of his hands so he can rotate the barrel. This of course, created an off-topic online discussion about "metaphysical hands" and other such nonsense which, even if verified, I don't personally believe is applicable to this particular case.
So my question is thus: Is it possible to dual-wield one-handed pepperbox pistols? Or does the need for a free hand to rotate the barrel somehow interfere with that? If it does, is there a build or combo out there that makes it possible?
I thought we were already playing according to the RAW, but that clearly has been brought into question.
Let's step through the process, assuming Improved Two-weapon Fighting and a BAB of at least +11:
1) Fire pepperbox1 in left hand (primary hand attack 1)2) Fire pepperbox2 in right hand (secondary hand attack 1)
3) Gloves-of-storing right hand pepperbox (free action)
4) Rotate left hand pepperbox1 (free action)
5) Fire pepperbox in left hand (primary hand attack 2)
6) Rotate left hand pepperbox1 (free action)
7) Snap the figners on your right hand to return pepperbox2 (free action)
8) Somehow swap pepperboxes from hand to hand??
9) Put pepperbox1 into glove of storing (free action)
10) Rotate right hand pepperbox 2 (free action)
11) Fire right hand pepperbox2 (secondary hand attack 2)
My big question is - how do you do #8?
So, fire, poof gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate, unpoof gun, fire, poof other gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate fire.... so on and so far as per this example.
I cut out a bunch to get to this - you're missing a step. How do you swap the guns from hand to hand so you can poof the other gun?
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So, fire, poof gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate, unpoof gun, fire, poof other gun gain free hand, rotate, fire, rotate fire.... so on and so far as per this example.I cut out a bunch to get to this - you're missing a step. How do you swap the guns from hand to hand so you can poof the other gun?
I have this wrong, actually. Since I forgot that you can only wear one of those gloves.
There are tons of ways it could be allowed just because it makes sense, underarm, held in teeth.... but if you want only RAW rules... you could use a weapon cord and only full attack every other turn.
Depending on how your GM rules handing items to someone else(Isn't it wonderful that Pathfinder is completely full of rules holes for things that people will want to do?) you could have an unseen servant who picks a gun you drop and hands it back to you.
Also, you could put "returning" on one of the guns and throw it as part of your attack actions, for the last attack that weapon gets. ^.~
But if you aren't looking to do something silly like that... you can make it a "called" weapon instead. You will need to use a swift action to get the weapon back in the next turn, but you can drop it just fine as a free action at the end of that weapons attacks. Also helps when your gun gets disarmed. I knew a gunslinger who once had that issue.
So, one weapon drawn and glove on off-hand... bang, turn, bang, turn, draw second weapon, drop first weapon, bang, turn, bang turn.
Next turn
Swift action call first weapon, shrink second weapon, bang, turn, bang, turn, drop first weapon, resize second weapon, bang, turn, bang turn...
Honestly, the best way to do this is to get a Monkey Belt instead and use it to turn the barrels. It is even slightly cheaper than the glove.
Posts first sentence says the gunslinger is doing actions to devastating effect, then asks if it is legal, and any post where it even remotely not legal actions, it is met with, "I'm not changing anything". Why even ask the question? It is just Trolling. Bad enough to allow Pepperboxs, then Two-Weapon usage, and ignoring the loading rules, or trying to make a secondary item override rules is just trouble. Solve your own problem, since it is a free-for-all game, just give him revolvers and then a non issue. Oh and better yeah, toss in some quick loaders, so zero down time.
It's an intellectual discussion of the rules. I also said that up front. This thread was never meant to change anything in my games, at least not right away. Also, it's against forum rules to call someone a troll (or even to infer it). I'll not report it, as it will just get a bunch of posts removed, but it's something you should be aware of.
In the original thread where he was looking for ways to counter the effectiveness of the Gunslinger, I pointed out that the disproportionately large damage output was specifically because of his allowance for the character to use both weapons simultaneously.
Legal or not, the OP's original thread indicates that this interpretation has unbalanced his own game. Even if it is rules legal, this imbalance alone is reason to curtail the dual wielding.
I was not looking specifically to counter the gunslinger, but to make a pivotal encounter exciting for the players.
It's also worth mentioning that the entire party has unbalanced the game, not just the gunslinger. He's just high DPR. The spellcasters in the party who lay down fog spells and have provided everyone with fog-cutting lenses do more to disrupt encounters than the gunslinger does. Even if I followed all your advice, the party would still be unbalanced. That's just the nature of high level play--it's pretty much inevitable if your players are anything short of nitwits.
But that's neither here nor there, at least in this thread. Back to the intellectual discussion.
So, one weapon drawn and glove on off-hand... bang, turn, bang, turn, draw second weapon, drop first weapon, bang, turn, bang turn.
Next turn
Swift action call first weapon, shrink second weapon, bang, turn, bang, turn, drop first weapon, resize second weapon, bang, turn, bang turn...
Sadly, weapon cords are now a move action, not a swift action thanks to errata.
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Sadly, weapon cords are now a move action, not a swift action thanks to errata.
The "Called" magic weapon property is a swift action.
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I believe Game Developer and Creative Director are completely different roles. I think it's a mistake to claim James Jacobs is a Game Developer, though there is no doubt that through his job he ultimately develops games.I'm certain game developers have commented on this in some capacity or another, though I haven't been able to find a source yet.
EDIT: Found a few...
...switching items from one hand to another is a free action...Switching a held object from one hand to the other doesn't require an action...I found still more developer posts (from other developers) about switching hands, but these appear to be the only two that declare what action it is. Shame they are somewhat contradictory...
Sadly, weapon cords are now a move action, not a swift action thanks to errata.The "Called" magic weapon property is a swift action.
So, that could work along with the Gloves of Storing. You're getting REALLY expensive now.
So, you have Pepperbox1 (+1, Called) and Pepperbox2 and a Glove of Storing. You wear the glove on your right hand which also holds Pepperbox1. Pepperbox2 is in your left hand. You've got Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Your round goes like this:
1) Fire Pepperbox 1
2) Fire Pepperbox 2
3) Say command word, Pepperbox 2 disappears into Glove of Storing (free action)
3) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
4) Fire Pepperbox 1
5) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
6) Fire Pepperbox 1
7) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
8) Drop Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
9) Snap your fingers, Pepperbox 2 appears in hand (Free action)
10) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
11) Fire Pepperbox 2
12) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
13) Fire Pepperbox 2
14) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
15) Use swift action, Pepperbox 1 teleports to your hand.
16) Repeat next round
That's 9 free actions. 10 if you take your 5' move. That does seem like quite a few.
Mark Seifter actually had some interesting words to say on this subject. I suggest reading a couple posts up and down for the full picture.I believe Game Developer and Creative Director are completely different roles. I think it's a mistake to claim James Jacobs is a Game Developer, though there is no doubt that through his job he ultimately develops games.I'm certain game developers have commented on this in some capacity or another, though I haven't been able to find a source yet.
EDIT: Found a few...
...switching items from one hand to another is a free action...Switching a held object from one hand to the other doesn't require an action...I found still more developer posts (from other developers) about switching hands, but these appear to be the only two that declare what action it is. Shame they are somewhat contradictory...
Personally, I'm a fan of Stephen Radney-MacFarland's take on the topic: Messageboard posts on a subjects made by the design and development team are not "official rulings" on the games. Clarifications in FAQ posts and errata are official rulings.
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Sadly, weapon cords are now a move action, not a swift action thanks to errata.The "Called" magic weapon property is a swift action.So, that could work along with the Gloves of Storing. You're getting REALLY expensive now.
So, you have Pepperbox1 (+1, Called) and Pepperbox2 and a Glove of Storing. You wear the glove on your right hand which also holds Pepperbox1. Pepperbox2 is in your left hand. You've got Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Your round goes like this:
1) Fire Pepperbox 1
2) Fire Pepperbox 2
3) Say command word, Pepperbox 2 disappears into Glove of Storing (free action)
3) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
4) Fire Pepperbox 1
5) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
6) Fire Pepperbox 1
7) Turn Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
8) Drop Pepperbox 1 (Free action)
9) Snap your fingers, Pepperbox 2 appears in hand (Free action)
10) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
11) Fire Pepperbox 2
12) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
13) Fire Pepperbox 2
14) Turn Pepperbox 2 (Free Action)
15) Use swift action, Pepperbox 1 teleports to your hand.
16) Repeat next roundThat's 9 free actions. 10 if you take your 5' move. That does seem like quite a few.
And the largest chunk of them is required just to be a ranged fighter. For each attack you need a free action. So, at 20th level(4 attacks) + TWF(3 attacks) and Rapid Shot(1 attack).... that is 8 attacks, requiring at least 8 free actions even if you have a free third hand. Then the 5 foot move, 9 free actions.
That is just for the pepperbox. If you had to reload each shot? That is 2 free actions per attack. 1 to retrieve the bullet and 1 to load the bullet. Putting you at a whopping 16 required free actions.
Are you going to say a gunslinger uses too many free actions just to get all the attacks they are due in a turn?
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Personally, I'm a fan of Stephen Radney-MacFarland's take on the topic: Messageboard posts on a subjects made by the design and development team are not "official rulings" on the games. Clarifications in FAQ posts and errata are official rulings.
That post is actually currently not correct. Any messages posted on the boards by the account "Pathfinder Design Team" are official. It is only the individual dev accounts which do not count as official.
Except, as has been pointed out, it is completely different. Using a hand to free action reload is not the same as using that hand during an attack, such as with two-handed melee weapons, or two handed ranged weapons.
No, quite frankly, I'm not telling you that at all. Unless you mean hand crossbows, in which yes, of course you can TWF with them because they only need one hand to make an attack.
You can also use TWF with throwing daggers if you have quickdraw, even though you're using your hand to draw a weapon. Heck, you can quickdraw with your offhand, pass the dagger to your main hand, and throw it with your iteratives, and then switch and draw with your main, pass to your offhand, and throw for your extra TWF attack(s). Because free action quickdraw and free action reload aren't using your hand to attack. Thus, those hands are available to make an attack.
Once again, unless you are actually using two hands to make the attack, you can use your offhand for TWF.
What are you talking about, I honestly don't understand. Here is the FAQ:
Armor Spikes: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make an "off-hand" attack with my armor spikes in the same round I use a two-handed weapon?
No. Likewise, you couldn't use an armored gauntlet to do so, as you are using both of your hands to wield your two-handed weapon, therefore your off-hand is unavailable to make any attacks.
The FAQ says that when you are using two hands to wield a weapon, your off-hand can't make an attack.None of that applies to the situation in this thread. At all. The FAQ is 100% irrelevant, so why do you keep bringing it up? It's just weird, dude.
You're using a hand to free action load an arrow onto the bow. You're using a hand to free action load a bolt onto the crossbow. You're using a hand to free action load ammunition into the pepperbox. How is it that you're saying Bows are Two-handed Weapons (they're actually under the ranged category), and can't be TWF'd with, and the other two are not?
In all of those cases, you're spending one hand to prepare the weapon for attack by loading the respective ammunition, and the other actually aiming and firing it. There's zero reason to allow one and then disallow the others, when they function exactly the same damn way as the next. Quite frankly, if you're going to allow it for Crossbows and Firearms, then why not allow it for Bows too?
And guess what? Technically, you can't TWF with thrown weapons because once you throw the weapon, you are no longer in a position to use that weapon, and therefore have to specify another weapon to function as your new primary, which you can't do according to what I mentioned in the original TWF FAQ. You specify which two weapons are your primary/off-hand, and you cannot interchange those two for anything, or for any reason, unless you have an ability that says otherwise, or lets you otherwise keep reusing that same weapon for throwing (Blinkbat Belt). Last I checked, there's no (other) exception, so that's another example of game mechanics failing upon itself.
I brought it up because I found it relevant, and applies to well more than just what it says. Take Natural Weapons and Manufactured Weapons as a prime example, or more specifically, Scimitars and Claws.
It's probably been said before, but I think it should be a full round action to reload each pepperbox pistol (like, 6 seconds to fully reload, it's PF, not the real world) but you can TWF with two loaded pepperbox pistols until they're empty.
How is it that you're saying Bows are Two-handed Weapons (they're actually under the ranged category), and can't be TWF'd with, and the other two are not?
That is a really fine point. I had totally forgotten about that. Even reminded me of some related threads I started a few years ago:
Do ranged weapons adhere to "handedness?" - Please FAQ if you're curious too!
Light, one-handed, two-handed and ranged weapons - There are weapons tables in the game that classify ranged weapons as also being light, one-handed, or two-handed.
How do you determine the handedness or ranged throwing weapons? - Did you know that even the Core Rulebook classifies darts and shurikens as light weapons?
You're using a hand to free action load an arrow onto the bow. You're using a hand to free action load a bolt onto the crossbow. You're using a hand to free action load ammunition into the pepperbox. How is it that you're saying Bows are Two-handed Weapons (they're actually under the ranged category), and can't be TWF'd with, and the other two are not?
In all of those cases, you're spending one hand to prepare the weapon for attack by loading the respective ammunition, and the other actually aiming and firing it. There's zero reason to allow one and then disallow the others, when they function exactly the same damn way as the next. Quite frankly, if you're going to allow it for Crossbows and Firearms, then why not allow it for Bows too?
And guess what? Technically, you can't TWF with thrown weapons because once you throw the weapon, you are no longer in a position to use that weapon, and therefore have to specify another weapon to function as your new primary, which you can't do according to what I mentioned in the original TWF FAQ. You specify which two weapons are your primary/off-hand, and you cannot interchange those two for anything, or for any reason, unless you have an ability that says otherwise, or lets you otherwise keep reusing that same weapon for throwing (Blinkbat Belt). Last I checked, there's no (other) exception, so that's another example of game mechanics failing upon itself.
I brought it up because I found it relevant, and applies to well more than just what it says. Take Natural Weapons and Manufactured Weapons as a prime example, or more specifically, Scimitars and Claws.
Description: You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size.Same language for longbow. This language doesn't exist for pistols.
More, that is very definitely not what you are doing with a bow. There is no meaningful sense in which you are loading a bow with one hand and aiming and firing it with the other. It takes both hands to aim and...
Yes, you need to keep the hand on the string to hold the ammo in place, so it's not fired prematurely. In fact, that's the sole reason a bow automatically requires two hands. If an engineer was smart enough, he'd find a way to make bows hold their ammunition automatically, no hands required; oh wait, that's what Crossbows are.
I mean, that's the reason there are clauses that state you must have two hands to load, but not fire, Firearms or Crossbows, because they are the same thing as a Bow, except don't require a hand on their ammunition at all times until they attack. They otherwise require aiming, and reloading, each the same way.
Let's get even more technical about this, and go on to say that you also can't make the claim that they're two-handed weapons, because that's not what they're listed as in the table, and you can't claim that requiring two hands to wield a weapon constitutes a two-handed weapon, because there are further ramifications to a two-handed weapon besides "Needs two hands," and the Bow doesn't share any of that, and lacking specifics or exceptions, it doesn't fall or count as a two-handed weapon in any respect. This means that I can, in fact, TWF with two bows, and not run into any problems, unwritten rule or otherwise.
Or much less the fact that the hands needed to use a longbow have to be free. I could be using a Heavy Shield and fire the bow just fine, because all it requires is that I have two hands. Do you have two hands? If the answer is yes, then you can attack with a bow. All of this "they have to be free or spent using the bow" crap doesn't apply, because that's not what the rules say.
We can play this all day, and all it's going to amount to is a bunch of rehashed arguments. But I have better things to do with my time than, well, that. So I'm going to go ahead and bow out of this thread (see what I did there?), because I've stated my argument clearly and concisely. If you don't understand, or care to understand, then that's your prerogative.
Yeah, I have to concur with thejeff on that one. I've actively practiced archery before, and one of the first things made evident is that the hand holding the bow is actually doing the LEAST work; that's why it's held in your offhand, because your dominant, stronger hand is needed to actually create the tension needed to fire an arrow.
It's probably been said before, but I think it should be a full round action to reload each pepperbox pistol (like, 6 seconds to fully reload, it's PF, not the real world) but you can TWF with two loaded pepperbox pistols until they're empty.Not a bad house rule. Though you still can't TWF with them, since you have to manually turn the barrels, unless you house rule that as well. :)
Would that be with Rapid Reload & alchemical cartridges? Or would those make it faster.
Currently there's no way to get there - it's either 6 free actions with both, or 6 move action with one or 6 standards with neither.
I was just suggesting being able to make iterative attacks so long as the pepperboxes had ammo, but fine, you win. :)
play a Kasatha and use your 2 extra hands to rotate the barrels
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Sidebar: The fact that all of the energy in the arrow comes from the back and arms of the user is also something most people don't seem to realize. All these depictions of scrawny elves with bows are either shooting at such a low poundage draw that they wont puncture plate or need to be hiding some massive muscle bulk in an extra-dimensional space somewhere.
The closest thing we have to this in Pathfinder is the rule that Strength penalties still apply to bow accuracy and damage.
I am not very strong at all, so the bow I used has to be a particularly low tension, and my archery clearly suffers in comparison. In real life, I have a lot more in common with those scrawny elves than I would like to admit.
play a Kasatha and use your 2 extra hands to rotate the barrels
But then we'd be back to square one, since if you were playing a Kasatha, why wouldn't you be Quadra-wielding guns? Dual wielding guns is already mostly driven in Rule of Cool, so more guns is better, right?
Sidebar: The fact that all of the energy in the arrow comes from the back and arms of the user is also something most people don't seem to realize. All these depictions of scrawny elves with bows are either shooting at such a low poundage draw that they wont puncture plate or need to be hiding some massive muscle bulk in an extra-dimensional space somewhere. *highly contentious personal opinion* A Professional Longbowman would probably have a higher strength score than a lot of melee troopers since something like an english longbow would be equivalent to lifting 100+ pounds using two or three fingers for ever arrow loosed.
After practicing on a 50 pound draw for an hour i have had days of pain :(
My understanding was that the longbows they were using had such a ridiculous pull (up to 185 pounds by some estimates) that the technique they used was dramatically different than what we today used for archery.
[My yeoman father] taught me how to draw, how to lay my body in my bow ... not to draw with strength of arms as divers other nations do ... I had my bows bought me according to my age and strength, as I increased in them, so my bows were made bigger and bigger. For men shall never shoot well unless they be brought up to it.
the Englishman did not keep his left hand steady, and draw his bow with his right; but keeping his right at rest upon the nerve, he pressed the whole weight of his body into the horns of his bow. Hence probably arose the phrase "bending the bow," and the French of "drawing" one.
Also, those English longbowmen spent so much time training with their bows that it physically altered their skeletons - significant increase in bone density around their wrists and elbows.
I agree. Longbow makes more sense as an exotic weapon than a lot of other exotic weapons.
Magic items aside, a good feat solution would be:
Prerequisite(s): Amateur Gunslinger feat or grit class feature, Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus.
Benefit(s): You can spend 1 grit point to make a feint attempt using a one-handed firearm for which you have Weapon Focus (instead of a melee weapon). The target of this feint must be within 30 feet of you and be able to see you.
If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a one-handed firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.
Anyone who doesn't approve of that much action during a turn, with feats or magic items, could simply decide how many Free actions a character could reasonably take on their turn.
A Pistol of the Infinite Sky in each hand would be the easiest solution, aside from the price to acquire them, and I'm sure someone has already mentioned the Revolver.
If someone invests 10,000 gold coins or a feat to allow themselves to utilize two-weapon fighting (which needs to be backed up with feats to be any good) and there's a RAW reason to let them get full attacks with their guns (and there is)...
...then, dangit, just let them, people.
This is the same trick that's floated around in 3.5 for ages. You can use gloves of storing or another, cheaper glove type that exists in 3.5 from an obscure book to reload crossbows in a similar way, too. Yes, this means dual-wielding hand crossbows with full TWF benefits. There's way more things that players can do that are far more unrealistic than letting a guy with two pistols or two tiny crossbows have fun pew-pewing at the enemy.
And yes, by RAW, Gloves of Storing or Gun Twirling would work, as would Revolvers, as would Pistols of the Infinite Sky.
According to RAW you need a hand with nothing in it to reload. But that's boring!
I'd allow the pepperbox to be reloaded with just the hand that is holding it- but I'd make it's misfire range increase by 1 because reloading with such an improvisation would no doubt lead to higher chances of malfunction. The offhand weapon can only fire once according to typical TWF rules unless you pick the feats up that give you additional attacks.
If they want to have extra guns to avoid reloading I don't see why you should jump on their fun, they basically have to invest all their gold into it and what's stopping the fighter from forgoing every other bit of equipment they should be buying to buy a +5 weapon? Nothing. Let martials have their mischief.
This would allow a gunslinger to potentially fire 12 times before reloading- and with a 3/20 chance of bustin' their gun it's exciting to see how the dice roll.
Live dangerously!
Now I'm pretty much imagining the player reloading as this.
All dual-wield pistol issues fall as chaffe before the might of the prehensile tail. Two-gun Tiefling feels right anyhow.