Hey guys.
So, my friends and I have recently begun playing through the Reign of Winter adventure path online on Roll 20.
I am very excited since this is the first time we're playing Pathfinder since a few of us moved away - and the first time I'm playing (and not GMing) in several years.
Anyways, while playing through the first module my friends and I got hit by a particularly powerful Color Spray during a battle with one of the sprites, which knocked out everyone but the rogue.
It made the battle incredibly annoying, but since they were only sprites (and a stag that got killed off early on), it wasn't particularly dangerous.
But, now we're approaching what I fear is a more difficult encounter and I was wondering:
How the hell do you deal with color spray??? It's a spell most of my players have neglected while I was a GM and so I haven't seen much use of it, and certainly haven't seen it work so well as it did against us.
Specifically: I was wondering if, since Color Spray is an illusion spell, if one person "disbelieves" it (and the phrasing of that already makes me doubt that what I'm suggesting is possible), could they make this known to the other players granting them a saving throw with a +4 bonus?
Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
P.S. Our party consists of a Human Witch (myself), Human Paladin, Catfolk Rogue, and Human Ranger. All still level 1.
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Disbelief doesn't help against color spray. It's more akin to people getting epileptic seizures from a strobe lights; you don't have to believe to be affected.
One thing that helps is battlefield positioning. It's a 15ft cone, that's not very big. If you try not to stand too close together, it'll be harder to hit everyone. If you surround enemies, it'll be hard to hit only the PCs and not enemies.
Because color spray has a small area of effect emanating from the caster, the caster has to come very close to his targets. If he doesn't manage to disable all of them, he's likely to get counterattacked himself immediately after.
Casting spells in melee can provoke attacks of opportunity, so make sure to read up on those rules. Many enemies aren't all that skilled at defensive casting, so you can bully them into failing some spells.
Disabling or destroying spellcasters should always have high priority, since they can hurt you so badly. Grappling them works very well, because that totally prevents using somatic components, and requires a not-easy concentration check just to cast any other spells. Sundering spell component pouches can also stop some spells (including color spray).
Other than increasing your save bonus or level the best way to deal with color spray, and a lot of AoE spells, is positioning, make sure it can't catch more than a few of you, at least not without taking one of them as well.
edit: I apparently need to post faster.
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Welcome to to world of wizards winning fights with one spell. People incorrectly believe that Wizards are weak early and grow into power, but as you've found, they start off strong and only get better.
The counter is to not group, if they can only get 1 person in the spell then there's a chance it does nothing. If you have multiple people you're more likely to have at least one of them fail.
Ascalaphus has some other good ideas.
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Barto the Bard: Pfft, he's just a mage! What can one mage do to us? We're adventurers!
Freddy the Fighter: Do you not read the Adventurer's Handbook!? Mages are dangerous!
Rita the Rogue: Yeah, seriously! Someone get behind him so I can knife him in the back!
Barto: Guys. He's just a man wearing a funny hat and dress. What's the worst he can--
Enemy Mage: (Color Spray)
Freddy: (was out of range, so he's fine)
Rita: (somehow managed to make her Will save)
Barto: (failed his Will save) @_@ oh god my lungs are filling with blood
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Welcome to to world of wizards winning fights with one spell. People incorrectly believe that Wizards are weak early and grow into power, but as you've found, they start off strong and only get better.
The counter is to not group, if they can only get 1 person in the spell then there's a chance it does nothing. If you have multiple people you're more likely to have at least one of them fail.
Ascalaphus has some other good ideas.
This. Your players not taking massive advantage of Color Spray in the past is baffling. Sleep, Color Spray, Grease, etc, all capable of ending an entire encounter in 1 casting. Of course, as you're finding now, it goes both ways.
This. Your players not taking massive advantage of Color Spray in the past is baffling. Sleep, Color Spray, Grease, etc, all capable of ending an entire encounter in 1 casting. Of course, as you're finding now, it goes both ways.Welcome to to world of wizards winning fights with one spell. People incorrectly believe that Wizards are weak early and grow into power, but as you've found, they start off strong and only get better.
The counter is to not group, if they can only get 1 person in the spell then there's a chance it does nothing. If you have multiple people you're more likely to have at least one of them fail.
Ascalaphus has some other good ideas.
I will say it is much easier for a one encounter NPC wizard to be truly dangerous at low levels. For PCs efficient spell use becomes more of an issue. That being said, at low levels when you probably (I'll have to look into this more) have the highest average Save DC to save bonus ratios lowest average save bonus to save DC ratio Save or suck spells are incredibly potent.
edit: it was bad math for me to put a variable with 0 as a possible value on the bottom of the ratio.
The small cone shape becomes a real limiting factor if you make color spray a full-round casting instead of a standard action -- if the caster can't move to position the cone ideally, it's a lot harder to catch people in it.
In fact, I'd strongly recommend making pretty much all "standard" casting times a full-round action, but that's just me.
The small cone shape becomes a real limiting factor if you make color spray a full-round casting instead of a standard action -- if the caster can't move to position the cone ideally, it's a lot harder to catch people in it.
In fact, I'd strongly recommend making pretty much all "standard" casting times a full-round action, but that's just me.
I wouldn't agree with that, especially if you make the caster choose the target area before casting, which seems to be what you're implying, it would totally destroy most casters, but to each their own.
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I wouldn't agree with that, especially if you make the caster choose the target area before casting, which seems to be what you're implying, it would totally destroy most casters, but to each their own.The small cone shape becomes a real limiting factor if you make color spray a full-round casting instead of a standard action -- if the caster can't move to position the cone ideally, it's a lot harder to catch people in it.
In fact, I'd strongly recommend making pretty much all "standard" casting times a full-round action, but that's just me.
I've actually thought that they should vary depending upon what caster level you are.
For example - at 1st level, 1st level spells would take full round actions. By 3-4 they'd be a standard, but 2nd level spells would be full round.
At level 11 6th level spells might take 2 rounds. Level 3-5 spells would be full round. Level 1-2 spells would take a standard.
Though of course, the entire magic system would really need to be re-designed from the ground up to make it work well - it's not a good patch. It would also give a lot more design room. You could make what is otherwise a rather mediocre 6th level spell worth taking if it was always cast (speed) as if it were a 4th level spell. etc.
*shrug*
especially if you make the caster choose the target area before casting, which seems to be what you're implying
No; the caster could still pick the area as it goes off; he just couldn't move around first in order to maximize the number of targets, nor take a 5-ft. step back to avoid having to cast defensively, etc.
especially if you make the caster choose the target area before casting, which seems to be what you're implyingNo; the caster could still pick the area as it goes off; he just couldn't move around first in order to maximize the number of targets, nor take a 5-ft. step back to avoid having to cast defensively, etc.
You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?
You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?
Actually, no, I didn't. That's freaking asinine.
You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?Actually, no, I didn't. That's freaking asinine.
I've never had to cast defensively, actually. I don't think I've ever had to make a concentration check.
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I've never had to cast defensively, actually. I don't think I've ever had to make a concentration check.You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?Actually, no, I didn't. That's freaking asinine.
That being the case, I think that your GM is going easy on you. If nothing else, occasionally lower level casters should ready Magic Missile or some such to hit you while you're casting. (That's what my evil necromancers etc. often have their lesser apprentices doing.)
That being the case, I think that your GM is going easy on you. If nothing else, occasionally lower level casters should ready Magic Missile or some such to hit you while you're casting. (That's what my evil necromancers etc. often have their lesser apprentices doing.)I've never had to cast defensively, actually. I don't think I've ever had to make a concentration check.You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?Actually, no, I didn't. That's freaking asinine.
It's pathfinder society, so it is easier in general. I'm pretty sure the GMs I've had have stuck more or less to listed tactics.
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You know baring a specific exception a character taking a full round action can still take a 5ft step right?Actually, no, I didn't. That's freaking asinine.
Casters that need to cast defensively:
Maguses using spell combat for extra attacks frequently need to cast defensively.
Bad touch clerics: If you're going to hit the guy standing next to you with a touch attack, you can't back up first.
Any spellcaster who is up against a party who can position themselves cleverly (a flanked caster or one with his back to the wall can't evade the threatened area with a five foot step) or a martial with step up (or worse, step up and strike). My Inquisitor has shut down (or at least severely limited) a lot of PFS spellcasters by getting in their face. They five foot step to try to get away and cast a spell and realize they're screwed when he follows. (If I really wanted to lock them down, I'd have him take stand still as well so that they can't eat the AoO for moving away and get out of reach that way).
