Jayder22 |
I had a this question come up in a game and I was curious if there is clarification anywhere on it.
If you have a grab attack that works on a successful attack, but you decide to just initiate a grapple as a standard action, do you get the +4 bonus to grappling that having a grab attack affords you?
I have an Alchemist with the tentacle discovery
Tentacle:
Grab :
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
It seems from my reading, that just having the special attack gives you a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple. Is this correct?
If it isn't correct, once a grapple is established, can the alchemist choose to maintain with the tentacle on his next round, thus gaining the +4 to maintain?
It would make sense that even if you aren't attacking with it, you can still use the tentacle to assist with your grappling efforts, thus getting the +4. However I can also see that for balance reasons, it just might not work.
Ahpook The Destroyer |
I would just say that the attacker wouldnt get that bonus on the round he started the "normal" grapple. On subsequent rounds, if he wanted to use his tentacle to aid in his grappling, I would allow him to get the bonus. The reasoning here is that he specifically said he wasnt using it that first round, so thus wouldnt get the bonus.
Make sense?
AtD
Ahpook The Destroyer |
I'm inclined to agree. Simply having a Grab special attack seems to grant the +4 to initiate and maintain. The rules don't actually say "with grapples made with that weapon".
Its certainly implied tho. Mainly because most critters who get grab ONLY have the limbs they are grabbing with. Try telling a squid it stil gets that bonus even if it doesnt use its tentacles...
AtD
Jayder22 |
I would just say that the attacker wouldnt get that bonus on the round he started the "normal" grapple. On subsequent rounds, if he wanted to use his tentacle to aid in his grappling, I would allow him to get the bonus. The reasoning here is that he specifically said he wasnt using it that first round, so thus wouldnt get the bonus.
Make sense?AtD
Just to be clear, I would not be stating I wasn't using the tentacle for the grapple. I would just not be making an attack to do damage with it. I fully assume that if I am trying to grapple someone, I am using both hands, tentacle and whatever else I can to try to succeed.
Scott Wilhelm |
I would just say that the attacker wouldnt get that bonus on the round he started the "normal" grapple. On subsequent rounds, if he wanted to use his tentacle to aid in his grappling, I would allow him to get the bonus. The reasoning here is that he specifically said he wasnt using it that first round, so thus wouldnt get the bonus.
Make sense?AtD
That doesn't make sense to me. The Grab Ability grants a +4 on all Grapple Checks, not just the Free Action Grapple check stemming from the Tentacle Attack.
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Seperate paragraph, separate ability granted by Grab, and no qualifiers. It just says "+4 on combat maneuver checks made to start and mainstain a grapple."
On subsequent rounds, if he wanted to use his tentacle to aid in his grappling, I would allow him to get the bonus.
Although it's not clearly false, that makes even less to me. The Free Action Grapple Check from Grab cannot be made to to Maintain a Grapple.
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action
"Using the tentacle to aid in his grappling" on subsequent rounds is shadier than just taking the +4 on your checks.
Interesting side note: the Amulet of Mighty Fists does not augment your Grapple Combat Maneuver Check normally, but it does enhance your Tentacle Attacks, and the Free Action Grapple Check from Grab with your Tentacle is an attack roll from your Tentacle, and it should benefit from your AoMF. It is not necessarily the case that other Grapple checks will benefit from the AoMF, even though you have a Tentacle, and you are clearly using it somehow. A GM might enforce that technicality.
Caution to the OP. Tentacles are Secondary Natural Weapons. When you Attack with them, you take a -4 to your Attack Roll and you only gain 1/2 your Strength Modifier. This is not the case if your character has no other Natural Attacks but your Alchemal Tentacle. In that case, as your sole Natural Attack, it suffer no such Attack Penalty, and you get +1.5 X your ST Mod.
Scott Wilhelm |
If your goal is to inflict the Grappled Condition without being Grappled yourself, you do suffer a -20.
But the text about the +4 makes it pretty clear that all your Grapple checks get a +4, not just +4s that come from the Grabs' Free Grapple Checks.
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.