Gnome SLA Infinite Loop

[Cuup]

Fey magic is an Alternate Racial Trait for Gnomes.

Fey Magic wrote:

The character has a mystic connection to one terrain type, selected from the ranger's favored terrain list. The character selects three 0-level druid spells and one 1st-level druid spell. If the character has a Charisma score of 11 or higher, when in the selected terrain, she gains these spells as spell-like abilities that can be cast once per day. The caster level for these effects is equal to the user's character level. The DC for the spell-like abilities is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the user's Charisma modifier. These spells are treated as being from a fey source for the purposes of the druid's resist nature's lure class feature and similar abilities. This trait replaces obsessive. Source HotW

I choose my 1st level Druid SLA to be Recharge Innate Magic (a Gnome-specific spell)

Recharge Innate Magic wrote:

You channel magic energy into your own aura, recharging your innate magic abilities. You regain one use of all 0-level and 1st-level spell-like abilities you can use as a result of a racial trait.

Does the SLA recharge itself, essentially granting me an infinite amount of uses of all my racial SLA's (of which Gnomes can get a lot)?

[Scott Wilhelm]

There might be a rule against using a use of a Racial Trait to recharge a Racial Trait, and there might be some other kind of wording out there, but that seems legit to me.

It doesn't seem particularly broken to me. It still takes a Standard Action to use these Abilities. Lots of Casters get to use lots of 0 level spells as many times/day as they want. So, if you are a Gnome, you get more.

That seems okay to me. If you are a Halfling, you can take a Trait that gives you a 30' Move just like the big boys, and you can take a Feat that lets you trade your AC Size bonus for a Damage Bonus, more than offsetting the damage loss from using size Small Weapons. If you are a Gnome, you get to use more Cantrips.

[ryric]

Do note that you have to be in one chosen terrain type to even have the SLAs, so you can't always use this combo.

Basically you're giving up your 1st level SLA to get unlimited 0 levels - I don't think it's broken.

[Claxon]

I mean, all its going to do is give you a bunch of 0 level spells you can use endlessly, just like every spell caster who has 0 level spells. The only difference is you might have more than them because you'll have racial 0 level spells and could pick up more from a class.

[David knott 242]

You can get infinite uses of your racial SLAs while in your chosen terrain type.

Fey magic is useless outside of that terrain type -- but it does give a whole new meaning to "home field advantage".

[Cuup]

I am aware of the terrain limitation of Fey Magic. My plan was to utilize this with a non-caster. Thanks for the clarification!

[Menacing Shade of mauve]

Well, they can get unlimited use of Comprehend Languages, Speak with Animals, Unseen Servant, Produce Flame or Chill Touch. It's a nice gig for a low-level mundane.

[Gray Warden]

I did the same thing with my Gnome. My master said no because reasons (like "the game doesn't allow loopholes"). So, expect an eventual GM's veto or table variations.

[Ferious Thune]

Menacing Shade of mauve wrote:

Well, they can get unlimited use of Comprehend Languages, Speak with Animals, Unseen Servant, Produce Flame or Chill Touch. It's a nice gig for a low-level mundane.

I don't think so. Doesn't Fey Magic replace whatever other racial magic trait the gnome would normally have? So it would just be infinite uses of the three 0-level spells from Fey Magic.

Now, there's no reason you can't just buy a Wand of Recharge Innate Magic and use that with one of the other sets of spells. I did this with my gnome for Chill Touch for a while. I still have plenty of charges on the wand an am at a level where Chill Touch isn't that useful anymore.

[Cuup]

Ferious Thune wrote:

Menacing Shade of mauve wrote:

Well, they can get unlimited use of Comprehend Languages, Speak with Animals, Unseen Servant, Produce Flame or Chill Touch. It's a nice gig for a low-level mundane.

I don't think so. Doesn't Fey Magic replace whatever other racial magic trait the gnome would normally have? So it would just be infinite uses of the three 0-level spells from Fey Magic.

Now, there's no reason you can't just buy a Wand of Recharge Innate Magic and use that with one of the other sets of spells. I did this with my gnome for Chill Touch for a while. I still have plenty of charges on the wand an am at a level where Chill Touch isn't that useful anymore.

Fey Magic replaces Obsessive. And then you can choose an additional SLA list between Gnome Magic, Fell Magic, Magical Linguist, or Utilitarian Magic (the former can be replaced by any of the others).

[Ferious Thune]

Huh. So it does. It seems a little unbalanced, but I suppose the limitation on it being in a favored terrain evens it out some.

[Dave Justus]

The only thing that would be questionable rules wise about this is order of operations, and I don't think the rules go into that level of specificity.

Basically, the question would be when the daily is considered expended vs. when the spell resolves.

If the daily use isn't expended until after the spell is completely done, then it doesn't work, because Recharge won't effect itself (it would certainly if you had two daily uses of it.)

If the daily use is expended immediately (i.e. before the spell resolves) then it would work.

Like I said, I don't think there is anything specific in the rules that would say one way or the other. I probably wouldn't have an issue with this combo, as I don't see anything really powerful you are going to get from it, but personally I might be leery of allowing it for fear of a precedent for a more powerful use. In general a house-rule that infinite loops don't exist in the game isn't a bad one.

[thewastedwalrus]

The best combo I could see with this would be a pyromaniac gnome for an infinite produce flame.

[Scott Wilhelm]

thewastedwalrus wrote:

The best combo I could see with this would be a pyromaniac gnome for an infinite produce flame.

And if that's all you want to do, just take a level in Magus, throw flasks of Lamp Oil, and use the Spark Cantrip.

Better yet, be a Grenadier Alchemist. Take Explosive Missile at level 4, and use Alchemal Weapon to put Lamp Oil on your arrows. That's a very solid idea for a Gnome. Have him take that trait that makes him automatically proficient in every weapon he makes, then make seige engines. There is a separate Discovery for putting Bombs on your Seige Engine missiles, but that's not so bad.

But now I'm describing a different kind of Gnome: a Mount Nevermind Gnome inventor, not a Fey Garden Gnome.