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Intimidating Tyrant Antipaladin for Hell's Vengeance


Advice


My group will be finished up our current AP soon and were going to be transitioning to Hell's Vengeance. This seems like a perfect chance to play an Antipaladin, but not just any kind. The Tyrant archetype seems perfect to join the tyrannical ranks of House Thrune and revel in the glory of the Dark Prince Asmodeus.

I also want the character to focus on intimidation as a primary tactic, while still maintaining a decent damage output.

We will be using automatic bonus progression and background skill system, though I don't think that's particularly relevant for character development.

The character is going to a human Chelaxian (for obvious reasons) and is going to be a member of a noble house who became a militant practitioner of Asmodeus who serves House Thrune.

STR: 18 (16+2) DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 14

I'm planning on taking the following cruelties: Sickened, Diseased, Cursed, and Stunned. Since I want to focus on Intimidation I don't want the shaken, frightened ones since I plan on building in a way to do that already.

I plan on taking the diabolic boon for the weapon. The idea of the servant seems cool, but in general I think its weak.

Since Antipaladins can channel energy, is there a good variant channel that would be worth it to take as a worshiper of Asmodeus? Is it worth even bothering with since I plan on using Touch of Corruption with a conductive weapon?

Skill wise I plan to max Knowledge Nobility and Profession Barrister (a soldier and a bureaucratic lawyer of Hell) thanks to background skills. I also plan to max out Bluff, Intimidate, Perception, and Sense Motive (with one rank being placed into knowledge religion).

Feat wise: I'm planning to pickup Power Attack and Hurtful at level 1. Once I qualify I will pick up Cornugon smash. I will pick up Mask of Virtue and Soulless Gaze (Damnation feats). I need at least two Damnation feats because with a 2nd feat Soulless Gaze allows me stack fear conditions. And the second level of Mask of Virtue can let me pretend to be Lawful Neutral, which might come in handy.

I am considering taking Pile On just to make sure the enemy stays Shaken/Frightened/Panicked, but don't know if it's necessary. I'm also considering taking Improved Critical (Nodachi). I'm not set on these last two though, and am open to ideas.

I will be taking one Trait from the player's guide for Hell's Vengeance (not decided) and Magical Knack. The Hell's Vengeance trait is non-negotiable as far as having one of them, but I don't know which yet. Magical Knack is negotiable, but a +2 bonus to caster level to make up for reduced caster level is pretty good to me.

I plan on using a Conductive Cruel Nodachi, and using greater magic weapon to gain back the enhancement bonus lost by enchanting the weapon with special qualities.

The general plan is to use Cornugon Smash to get a free Intimidate when Power Attacking. Hurtful kicks in if they are Intimidated, and I get a free attack as a swift action. At this point, the cruel weapon kicks in and Sickens the enemy when they are hit. This gives a -4 to attack rolls and saves. That can be done as only a standard and swift action, meaning I can move to the enemy to do it. If I'm able to full attack, on the next hit I use the conductive quality of my weapon to activate one of my Cruelties, because now I've softened up their saves against my abilities.

My goal is to seriously debuff a single enemy in the fight. I'm aware there are a few abilities for AoE intimidate, but my understanding is the prerequisites are harder to fulfill and I don't think it would mesh as well. However I definitely open to hearing arguments for other options.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks.


my advice would be start with Str/Cha both at 16.

Channel negative is a great way for paladins to suddenly have decent AoE, so while I wouldn't worry to much about buffing it, its nice to have.

another thing, aegis antipaladins are great, as, well, they don't particularly care about saving their comrades (to an extent)and a conductive weapon insures you have pretty decent damage even without two-handing.

you could look into the lord of darkness archetype which has enchantment like effects (just reflover as people being to scared of you to not obey :p)


Actually, that reminds me that there was a feat introduced that allows you to wear a shield while two handing a weapon, or something along that lines? Do anyone know what that is? It was introduced in Armor Master's Handbook I believe.

Why do I want to start at 16 Charisma? I guess it will help me Unholy Resistance and my Touch of Corruption uses and DC? Is it really worth it to lower Strength to increase those things? It reduces my to hit and damage, so I'm unsure if its a good trade off.

Third Party content isn't allowed, so Lord of Darkness isn't an option.


charisma= number of ToC/day which equals= more damage/debuffs.

not to mention a free +1 to all saves (and AC and attack rolls vs big good guys) AND another +1 to your intimidate/bluff DCs spells/day etc.

if you keep the two handed weapon (or, Devastator) you still do +5 damage imo its worth losing the +1/+1. (even more so since, later one, one extra use of ToC will = several D6 worth of damage more and debuffs)


OP, I just started playing HV, also with a Chelaxian noble Antipaladin Tyrant focusing on intimidation, though I'm also using the Dread Vanguard archetype too. If there was ever a reason to lose spellcasting, Dread Vanguard is definitely high up there so I'd rec looking into it. It fits the leader kinda role as well.

I opted to focus more strongly on my CHA, starting with 18 CHA, and 16 STR instead, and building as a sword and board, mostly for fluff purposes. I'm the face of the party, so the high CHA helps with that, as well as ensures I'll have plenty of Touches of Corruptions to spare. I'd use a nodachi or greatsword in a heartbeat though.

With regards to the nodachi with a shield, yes, Armor Master's Handbook has a feat called Shield Brace, it allows you to use a two handed polearm (such as the nodachi) with a shield. You take a penalty to your hit equal to the ACP of the shield and need Shield Focus as a feat prereq.

Also since you are a noble, I'd recommend the Chelaxian Noble trait from HV. You get a free breastplate at level 1 too, since you can pick up a single non-magical item for 200 or less GP, which just fits for a breastplate.


Dread Vanguard does seem kind of neat. It's not like Paladin/Antipaladin spell casting is amazing, but there are a few things that are pretty damn awesome.

Since I expect to apply both Conductive and Cruel to my weapon it eats up 2 of my enhancement bonus. Considering how the weapon enhancement works with Automatic Bonus Progression, this makes it difficult if I can't cast Greater Magic Weapon myself. Though I could potentially get one of my party members to cast it for me. Still, many of the litany spells are quite useful...

Sell me on Dread Vanguard?


Claxon wrote:

Dread Vanguard does seem kind of neat. It's not like Paladin/Antipaladin spell casting is amazing, but there are a few things that are pretty damn awesome.

Since I expect to apply both Conductive and Cruel to my weapon it eats up 2 of my enhancement bonus. Considering how the weapon enhancement works with Automatic Bonus Progression, this makes it difficult if I can't cast Greater Magic Weapon myself. Though I could potentially get one of my party members to cast it for me. Still, many of the litany spells are quite useful...

Sell me on Dread Vanguard?

Honestly if anything ABP works more in your favor since once you get a +1 bonus you can immediately toss on Cruel or Conducive to your weapon, and forego the need for the mandatory +1 enhancement. This will help get you online quicker. You're losing the GMW stuff obviously, but if you really needed you could probably just ask the cleric to cast it on you or something as mentioned.

The big sell on the Dread Vanguard is of course the Beacon of Evil. Standard action, spend a Touch, and give your party +1 attack, damage, and AC for an entire minute, also +1 to saves vs fear but that's rarely relevant. By level 8 it even gives fast healing 3, so you can help heal the party 30 HP over that minute. Not much, but it can be pretty nice and saves the healer some infernal healings. At level 12 the bonus increases to +2, but you can also extend an aura. Aura of Cowardice within 30 ft is pretty nice, and your casters will love you if you do it with Aura of Despair, granting all enemies that -2 to saving throws.

So basically you're losing spellcasting, to get something of a weaker inspire courage that does much more than on the tin as you level up.


Just wanted to jog the old noodle again and see if anyone has any new ideas.

Quote:

Baron Alexandrius Albanus Alazario

Male human (Chelaxian) antipaladin (tyrant) 11 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 118, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Intrigue 64)
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +9
Aura cowardice (10 ft.), despair (10 ft.), vengeance (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 25, touch 13, flat-footed 24 (+11 armor, +2 deflection, +1 Dex, +1 natural; +2 deflection vs. good)
hp 92 (11d10+22)
Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +12; +2 resistance vs. good
Defensive Abilities thrune loyal agent; Immune disease
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +2 conductive cruel nodachi +16/+11/+6 (1d10+20/15-20)
Ranged sling +12 (1d4+6)
Special Attacks channel negative energy 4/day (DC 19, 6d6), smite good 4/day (+4 attack and AC, +11 damage)
Antipaladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th; concentration +15)
At will—detect good
Antipaladin (Tyrant) Spells Prepared (CL 10th; concentration +14)
3rd—burst of speed[UC], greater magic weapon
2nd—blade tutor's spirit (2)
1st—litany of sloth[UC] (2, DC 15), protection from good
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 18
Base Atk +11; CMB +14; CMD 30
Feats Cornugon Smash, Hurtful, Improved Critical (nodachi), Mask Of Virtue, Power Attack, Soulless Gaze, Thrune Trusted Agent, Weapon Focus (nine-section whip)
Traits chelish noble, magical knack, thrune loyal agent
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 to jump), Bluff +18 (+19 vs. members of Chelish aristocracy), Diplomacy +18 (+19 vs. members of Chelish aristocracy), Disguise +4 (+5 vs. members of Chelish aristocracy), Intimidate +27 (+28 vs. members of Chelish aristocracy), Knowledge (nobility) +16, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception +9, Profession (barrister) +12, Sense Motive +11
Languages Common, Infernal
SQ cruelties (cursed, diseased, sickened), diabolic boon (weapon +3, 2/day), touch of corruption 9/day (5d6)
Combat Gear maiden's helm; Other Gear mwk glamered full plate, mwk conductive cruel nodachi[UC], sling, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, doctor's mask, flint and steel, hemp rope (50 ft.), holy text (Asmodeus)[UE], masterwork tool, mess kit[UE], noble's outfit, signet ring, soap, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, wooden holy symbol of Asmodeus, 24,799 gp, 8 sp
--------------------
Tracked Resources
--------------------
Antipaladin Channel Negative Energy 6d6 (4/day, DC 19) (Su) - 0/4
Armor Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
Detect Good (At will) (Sp) - 0/0
Fiendish Boon (Weapon +3, 11 mins, 2/day) (Sp) - 0/2
Smite Good (4/day) (Su) - 0/4
Torch - 0/10
Touch of Corruption (5d6 hit points, 9/day) (Su) - 0/9
Trail rations - 0/5
Weapon Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Antipaladin Channel Negative Energy 6d6 (4/day, DC 19) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Aura of Cowardice -4 (10 ft.) (Su) Enemies in aura are not Immune to fear and take -4 to saves vs. fear effects.
Aura of Despair -2 (10 ft.) (Su) Enemies in aura take a -2 to all saves.
Aura of Vengeance (10 ft.) (Su) As a standard action use 2 smite good, allies in area gain smite at your bonus for 1 min.
Cornugon Smash When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
Cruelty (Cursed, DC 19) (Su) When you use your touch of corruption ability, the target is cursed, as if you had cast bestow curse, using your antipaladin level as the caster level.

You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of touch of corruption, chosen w
Cruelty (Diseased, DC 19) (Su) When you use your touch of corruption ability, the target contracts a disease, as if you had cast contagion, using your antipaladin level as the caster level.

You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of touch of corruption, c
Cruelty (Sickened, DC 19) (11 rounds) (Su) When you use your touch of corruption ability, you may also make your target sickened for 1 round per Antipaladin level.

You may only apply a single Cruelty ability to each use of touch of corruption, chosen when used.
Detect Good (At will) (Sp) You can use detect good at will (as the spell).
Fiendish Boon (Weapon +3, 11 mins, 2/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Hurtful Make melee attack against creature you have just demoralized as free action.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Mask of Virtue Your alignment is concealed.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Smite Good (4/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +11 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Soulless Gaze Otherworldy dread infuses your gaze.
Thrune Trusted Agent Gain bonus to Ref and Will save when within 30 ft. of ally with feat, or increase effectiveness of aid another action.
Touch of Corruption (5d6 hit points, 9/day) (Su) As a standard action, touch channels negative energy and applies cruelties.
--------------------
Consider feats:
Weapon Focus
Weapon Versatility
Blugeoneer
Enforcer

This is my current character.

I'm considering picking up weapon focus, to get weapon versatility, to use blugeoneer on my nodachi and use enforcer to get shaken, while dropping cornugon smash. Then possibly picking up dazzling display and shatter defenses.

But the truth is I don't have great ideas for this build.

Currently it's simply power attack->cornugon smash->free intimidate->if successful free extra attack via hurtful -> if second attack hits they are sickened. When necessary I add touch of corruption via conductive on the second attack, and use it to apply the cursed cruelty, usually for a penalty to saves. I have a mesmerist in the party I combo with to basically shut down any enemy, because I can cause a -10 penalty to saves.

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