TheAndyman |
The aclchemist archetype Eldritch Poisoned is legal for PFS play. However, it still retains the bonus brew potion feat from the Alchemist base class progression. Since the class doesn't get bombs for the extra bomb replacement feat, what do they get? I'm hoping the Lords of Paizo look kindly upon us and give us poison focus, but the few other alchemist archetypes that don't have bombs seem to be getting knowledge focus skills.
Zwordsman |
What they should give is the ability for all thea lchemist's poison discoveries to work with their class poison Dx
but Yeah hopefully someone chimes in at some point
Why do you want poison focus?
i don't think anything the alchemist can do would be used with it?
I mean..
Benefit(s): The save DC of any poison you craft with Craft (alchemy) and any spells you cast with the poison descriptor increases by 1. This bonus doesn't stack with the bonus granted by Spell Focus.
you aren't making the class poison with craft alchemy. there is no crafting in PFS right?
and none of the alchemists infusions (are spells) or have the poison descriptor (That I can think of) nor do they really have the ability to use infusions on anyone else i can think of
TheAndyman |
Actually you do use manufactured poisons as an Eldritch poisoner. You become a switch hitter between the two. You can use manufactured poisons as a swift action, which means they become your set up poisons while you and your flanking buddy get positioned. You can also grab a few discoveries that make using them quite viable. My friend and I were theory crafting that drow poison, a dc 14, can get bumped up to around 23-24 dc with sneqk, malignant and concentrate discoveries at level 10. Lob that on a dagger at the spell eater while you're running towards your target and he drops out of combat. Then for the next round you're flanking a target, you can use arcanatoxin as a move action and ram it in someone's kidney for a around a 25dc 1d6 double save poison.
The archetype makes crafting poisons super fast, assuming you have the gp you can whip them up on the spot
Kahel Stormbender |
Nope TheAndyman, no crafting. Alchemists can use the Craft Alchemy skill as a dayjob check and can get discounts on alchemic supplies, I believe. But they can't actually make their own items. Although Craft Alchemy does come in useful during scenarios now and then, just not for actual making stuff. Those discoveries I think only affect poisons you make yourself, don't they?
Not entirely sure since I don't play alchemists.
Zwordsman |
THere is no crafting in it. So, poison focus is null, as is Toxicologists in the Eldritch Poisoner's archetype.
Well unless that Toxicologists effects the standard/move action to create the poison anyway. Which it doesn't I assume as it doesn't state anything about making actions quicker.
You can indeed buy poisons in pfs (though its a bit of a fight from what I'm told in who and where and when. and the cost-goes wonky quickly) and they canin crease pretty nicely with the alchemist's normal poison discoveries. I have several awesome builds (though not pfs) that make the poison DC of created poisons REALLY HIGH.
but.. really you can't craft your own poisons in PFS. Last I knew anyway.
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Sadly this class is pretty awesome to look at. But the action econmy has made it unplayable all the times I've tried to use it(note! My groups are all insane builders; and i'm only mediocre, but more of them than I. so my games are bit harder. so its unplayable there-but in a normal one it can be doable-which I bring up later in this). It would be amazing.. if it didn't have so many usuablity problems in actual play.
The problem are;
1)they never can apply faster than a move action (as near as I can tell). That means that its always a full round action to try and poison anyone. (excluding throwing as a splash or inhale).
What it should do is, replace swift poisoning, with a version that allows swift creation and application of the eldritch poison and normal poisons. Similiar to the Toxicant really.
2) It simply does not last long enough for most things. I mean both in terms of number of hits, and in terms of length of viability.
The poison doesn't last long enough to create a small stock pile, to apply to weapons in combat via swift poisoning class feature (the normal I mean not the suggested version). If the poison lasted even just mins per alchemist level, if not 10's of mins per level then it would be far far more usuable.
Or. if you could use normal alchemist discoveries on it; such as Sticky Poison, then spending a move action to create and apply it to your weapon wouldn't be an issue, it wouldn't be every turn it would be a normal "buff" that the game really endorses and runs on. Further you could apply malignant poison and celestial discovery to it then you also wouldn't have a DC issue or a lot of immunity issues.
Ideally, if they altered the action economy, or made it so normal alchemist discoveries worked, and raised it to Mins per level (at least) then this archetype would be readily usuable.
as it stands. It sadly just looks and sound wonderful.. but really falls up short in actual gameplay. Just requires too much "doing nothing in battle" It falls seriously into the "kirin style" trap.
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but. If you want to increase the DC even more. (I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS FEAT IS VALID IN PFS. SO CHECK ON THAT)Then be a human, with the racial heritage feat, in Nagaji (I think it was that race) they get a +1/3rd to the DC of created poison and +! craft alchemy for poisons.
Created. not crafted. So it should boost the SU ability, and any other stuff you do with it. Granted you'll certainly have a PFS GM looking hard at that, but techicnally RAW it would work. As created is simply defined in Pathfinder.
There are a few other things I know of I guess, but i don't know how many of them apply to PFS.
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Poisons are honestly my favorite thing in most games, poison debuffs even more..
So i really love making poison builds. I've made quite a few.. Sadly it just looks so difficult to get eldritch poisoner to work with any real frequency. Except as someone quite often using the splash or inhale varients (but those DCs are just painful! Though much more managable with Ability Focus (probably not pfs legal?) and that favored class bonus. The poisoned weapon is good for an opening shot, but most of the time doing it in battle, as a melee character, comes up short..
After a while I ended up rebuilding my character to use thrown weapons, (chakram at the time) and then I also built a vital strike variant (two versions, one with a melee reach weapon, and then a crossbow varient).
Honestly, the vital strike one worked the best to make up for the crap action economy. WIth a decently sized dice (or i guess a minotaur double crossbow and crossbow mastery) you can poison and then do decent enough damage to not be a mollusk in the game. Though when you go range, sadly the Sneak Attack comes up so little, really just as an opening thing, or occasionally with greater invisi, but so many things that doesn't work agianst.
So.. yeah you can make it work but just be aware of the serious limitations, and in PFS how little you can actually do to power up the poison--because honestly speaking 10+1/2lv+INT as a DC really won't cut it sometimes.
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Using normal bought poisons though is pretty easy to do. but sadly, if you take the discoveries to use bought poisons then that means your arcano toxin will be coming up even more short. To really make it effective you need to be using your discoveries mostly on that.
Really want it to be a move action, the debuffs are wonderful because they really pile up easily (particualrly for low fort guys),
Luckily though, the main powerups for your toxin are non discovery related.. but still a lot of your discoveries will be focused on that, and on self preservation methods (spont healing and the upgrade, or mummy, or the potion stuff.
So.. you'll have some ability with normal poisons, but not nearly the ability of a focused bought poison character.
Still even with all the mentioned problems. It sure as hell is utterly and totally wonderful and fun when you get it working nicely. So, just be aware of the holes, build accordingly, and be sure you explain to your teammates how your stuff works. That way you can slide it all in perfect and be effective enough that you aren't an blow fish in a sushi resturant (looks pretty, lot of hard work put into it, but people are afraid its messed up. But if done right can be amazing)