Guide to help players to get into New Games!


Online Campaigns General Discussion

Dark Archive

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Hi dudes! I've been thinking for a while about creating a guide to help whoever is interested to make through the cut in a pathfinder game. Let me explain the reasons behind this:

It is a known fact that there are far more players than GMs around here and this leads to recruitment threads with an astonishing number of applications... for an example, I'll start a game in the following days for 4 players and the number of interested players is 40+! Ten times the number of available spots. I know not all games reach this number (some are even higher!) but this means that only the best will make the cut.

I know this is expected and you should be asking what is the problem behind this and the thing is that there are many players around here that for some reason or another gets denied the chance to play over and over again, while others play in 20+ games. IMO this process is much like some experience in your job... the more games you play, easier it is for you to enter other games, be it because you end up with a 'network' or because you get pretty good at making characters. The problem begins when you are a new player.

There is another matter that bugs me... the quality of the applications. Looking around these boards, I've noticed that there is much more love towards APs than homebrews (with exception of those gestalt games). This means that many APs recruitment end up with tons of interested players with pretty good characters while some homebrews see less interest and sometimes their GM, after spending many hours working on their games, end up with 'not really good' characters since they have a smaller rooster to choose from.

My intention here is to solve these problems or at least diminish them. If we can guide everyone interested in make better and better characters, all of them will have better chances of getting into a game and GM's will always have incredible players to play...

So, before posting anything about my preferences and advices, I'd like to ask all the GMs who have a small spare time, to tell me what you usually want/look for when you create a game. If possible, lets not focus on build requirements since it changes wildly from game to game (I prefer low point buy for an example, but many do not share this opinion)...

So, what you take in consideration when you pick a player for your game? Here are a few examples to make it easier:

  • Crunch or fluff?
  • Small/Detailed backgrounds?
  • Plenty of hooks/generic PC?
  • Number of Games the player is already in?
  • The attention the player pays to your posts?

What are your tips/advices for all the players? If this gets enough interest, I intend to compile it in guide, as complete as possible, to help both players and GMs to have a better experience in these wonderful boards!


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I'd love to help with this project, either as a survey subject or as a collaborator.

Keep in mind that Willmannator wrote an excellent guide to running recruitments. You'll want to link to it because it gives great perspective on the GM's side of all this.

I think you have listed factors that are all good considerations, but there are other factors to consider as well. I'll fully admit that I stalk my applicants and look at their other gameplay posts. Do they only do dice rolls with very little dialogue? Do they put thought into their posts? Do they push gameplay and involve others to hook them in?

I also look at trying to bring new people in as well. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Although I love homebrew games, I know the reason why most players seek out the APs more. Homebrew games can run out of gas when a GM hits a bad patch. Whereas with APs, GMs have a storyline to fall back upon, which can help keep them connected and going even when it becomes tough to continue.

Hmm

Dark Archive

Thanks for pointing me out to Willmannator's guide. When I created my first recruitment thread for WotR, that guide really helped a lot! And I'm glad that you took interest in helping in my attempt.

My idea is to create a similar guide, but with the intention to guide players to achieve the same things that Willmannator's guide advises us to take in consideration.

I also stalk my prospective players before accepting them but this leaves new players in clear disadvantage...

Also I agree with you regarding homebrew. I've been, I think, in 7 of these games where the GM simply looses interest after a month or two. I'll try to take Willmannator's excellent guide and reverse it to a player's perspective on Monday and any ideas and input will be surely helpful!


Currently trying my hand at an in character recruitment thread for the Giantslayer AP, it is a lot more work for the GM, me, but allows for me to get a look at prospective players writing skills. Also allows players to potentially be creative and for me to foreshadow and get players familiar with the starting location, etc.

I would also add that personally simple things like proper capitalization and grammar go a long way. Because there are many people with English as a second language I try not to be too pedantic about it, but text speech or a large number of wrongly uncapitalized letters is a turn off.


I'm currently working on adapting my homebrew single-run scenario from Roll20 to PbP. I plan to do a new-player only game, maybe even several, using that scenario and its possible sequel. If that goes well I will probably purchase a few PFS scenarios and run those for new players.

The problem you describe is really prominent here. I didn't expect it when joining these forums a week ago, but it actually represents something I have felt in F2F gaming as well. However, I think that putting up games for those inexperienced or simply just starting PbP is going to remedy the problem much faster, than trying to teach them how to make it through a recruitment without having actually played a game.


I think this is a neat idea, and would enjoy a guide like this. Willmannator's guide is excellent, but his advice to players is basically "Take all this and apply it in reverse." But what does that mean? A focus on the player's side would be a welcome addition to the PbP guides.

Before I answer your questions, let me say I'm fairly new to the boards and PbP GMing. I started playing in December. In March I started GMing an AP and ran a large recruitment thread. Later, I started a Beginner Box campaign that has now transformed into a Jade Regent campaign. I plan to start a third game, probably a module, in September to coincide with Halloween.

Crunch or fluff?
Both. Good fluff is necessary because it shoes a player's writing and RP ability, and shows me they are "tuned in" to the themes of the campaign. E.g. in my Crimson Throne game, urban-based characters make a lot of sense, while fey-hunting rangers would have been an awkward fit. This shows me the player has put at least some thought into their application, rather than simply submitting any old character they drew up last year. Crunch is also necessary because I rely on my players to know their character mechanics, and being able to build and present stats for a PC indicates the basic familiarity with the game necessary for PbP. Additionally, I like to build parties with some degree of balance.

Small/Detailed backgrounds?
Something in between. I want enough writing to know where the character is coming from and how the applicant writes, but I don't want to spend hours reading applications. I will usually request a sample RP post. This allows the applicant to get into character and supplement their backstory.

Plenty of hooks/generic PC?
This sounds bad, but I prefer generic PCs. I run published content because it saves time. As Hmm noted, there's always the story to fall back on. As much as I love PbP, there isn't always a ton of time to "re-write" an AP for PC hooks. Rather than worry about them, I generally prefer to let the PCs use the hooks presented. That's not to say I never play off my PCs, only that I have a general preference for fewer edits.

Number of Games the player is already in?
This doesn't make a huge difference to me, as long as their application is strong. I remember first starting PbP and worrying about my post history, but someone took me into a game. I've also taken on players with a short posting history and things have worked out fine.

The attention the player pays to your posts?
This is pretty important. The pleasure of GMing comes in reading how the players respond to the world, and if they consistently miss or avoid elements, that fun is diminished. I always look for an applicant's ability to follow directions.

Additionally, I highly value "atmosphere" and I am drawn to PCs who tie in well with the themes of the campaign. This can be a problem for applicants, since they usually haven't read the material and may not know the themes! In such cases, I try to give hints and clues as to appropriate ideas. E.g. in Crimson Throne I hinted at "gritty, urban, politically complex" characters, and I was pleased with the results.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Flaxseed Lodge is very much open to new players. Since it is first come, first serve, it allows new players to get a bit of posting history for GMs to look at. That can be a great way to jump start your way into PbP.

___

Of course, saying that, that's not the route I used to get into PbP. I was lucky enough to stumble into a PbP game of We Be Goblins for brand new players that allowed us to make our own goblin characters. I got in because they had 3 no shows, and I was able to make a character who could jump in immediately. I brought in my singing alchemist, and others suddenly started singing along because it was funny. Our game morphed into a goblin musical with everyone bursting into song throughout. We went completely off the rails and had a blast.

My second PbP was a version of Mummy's Mask with some odd house rules. I applied to it despite the rolled stats and house rules that reduced hit points for wizards and sorcs to four per level + con bonus. I applied as the only full arcane caster and RP'ed the heck out of my submission. (Being willing to apply in an unpopular category option will certainly up your charces of getting chosen for something like this.) I'm STILL playing in that game, which has one of the best GMs for setting scenes and encouraging RP that I've ever seen.

In my third PbP, it was an interest-only check for a Razor Coast game that came up around Christmas (the slowest week on the boards.) The guy decided to GM it after he had 6 people express interest, and then he abandoned us right after we all made fantastic characters with interlinking histories. It was depressing to have the game fall through. So I went out and hunted down a new GM, because we had six solid and interesting characters who were raring to go. We got our replacement GM because we showed so much darn enthusiasm, and because we were able to gift to him the books he needed to get us started. We played our adventure to conclusion. It was a fantastic game.

By this point, I started getting invitations to play in other people's games. I receive these so regularly that I suspect that this is how 90% of the PbPs on here recruit. GMs decide that they don't want the hassle of a public recruitment, so they hit up active players who have the qualities that they want, or who have been recommended by others.

Hmm


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I'm definitely down to contribute! Anything that helps introduce new players into the hobby is definitely a beautiful thing to me.

Crunch or fluff? In the end both need to be at least competent, but I weight well-thought-out fluff a little more heavily in my considerations. (One of the sentences of my standard campaign introduction spiel: "If you post nothing but a character sheet, you will not be chosen.") Good fluff usually serves as my introduction to a player's writing style and roleplay, and gives a window into how the character will play out. I don't want characters who only speak up in gameplay to say "I swing my sword do I hit?"; I don't expect everyone to be novelists, but I want to see thought put into the game, and good character fluff helps me to get a glimpse of that, especially for new players. I also like well-fleshed-out personalities because it gives me a chance to introduce a good mix of character traits into a group, which helps to enhance the story we're telling together.

(As an example, in one of my current games I have an LG cleric of Abadar, an LG phalanx soldier fighter/Hellknight, and an LG Order of the Shield cavalier - by those descriptions alone you think they'd go together like mac and cheese, right? Wrong - the cavalier and the Hellknight just had an argument a few (IRL) days ago over the upcoming conclave they're headed to, and the relationship between the cleric and the Hellknight has been tense since the beginning. Everyone fights together well, but their interpersonal differences help to make the story they're telling far more complete.)

That said, though, crunch does need to be there - as Wicked said earlier, I depend on my players to be at least fairly competent with their mechanics, because I have enough to do making sure I'm using my mechanical tools right to worry too much about whether the players are using theirs right. I also need some idea of crunch so I can make sure a variety of roles are being covered; telling me you're a cleric while neglecting to mention you're building toward controlling undead and channeling negative energy changes the niche you fill, and at the end of the day I have to be conscious of filling as many niches as possible.

One other consideration that I would never have thought of if it hadn't come up for me - it puts the GM in a damned awkward spot if you ask them to put extensive effort into helping with your build. It creates a conflict of interest that other applicants can and will notice; well, what if the GM only picked Character X because they basically built them? It's ok to ask for small bits of advice, especially if it's along the line of players' guide material where the advice you need is campaign-specific (which favored enemy, are things with a certain DR a major player, etc.). But don't ask much more than that; if you need help, ask a friend or see if a generous soul in the Advice forum can help.

Small or detailed backgrounds? More detail is usually better for me - even if those details never end up seeing the light of day, it gives the player a fuller picture of how their character thinks of, perceives, and reacts to the world around them. Again, it also helps me to get a view into how they'll post, which especially for new players is a big deal. It doesn't have to be in a narrative format, but I find I prefer writing characters that way as a warm-up for gameplay. That said, I do usually run published material, and while I will adjust things to help characters shine, I won't necessarily have time to work in every detail of everyone's past. If you think it must come up, it's up to you to introduce it - and fortunately PbP is a good medium for that.

PC with plenty of campaign hooks or generic PC? I'll go middle ground here - PCs that have made an effort to hook themselves into the story I'm proposing. I always try to include as much spoiler-free information about the modules I run as I can (kick-off events, location, theme, etc. a la AP players' guides); I'm far more likely to choose a character that's made an effort to connect themselves to the narrative than I am one whose connection is "lol I'm here I guess". Even characters that are just passing through an area when events kick off and draw them in should have a reason to be where they are, if only as a stop from one place to another. I'm not going to spend all my energy and effort dragging a character into a story - have a character with some reason to be involved, even if it's only for money/prestige/lulz, or find another game.

Number of games the player is already in? Doesn't matter to me except very rarely as a tiebreaker - if I have two equally qualified characters competing for a similar niche I'll tend to choose the one with fewer current active games in order to spread the wealth. Otherwise, I don't care if you've played in zero games or fifty; I'll choose who best fits my story and my style.

The attention the player pays to your posts? This is huge - this is probably my single biggest indicator of whether or not I'll choose a character for a game. While I completely understand that no one (least of all me) is perfect, if someone's missing major details in my recruitment posts, they'll miss major details in my gameplay posts, and that makes for a poorer game for everyone. And demonstrating that you're checking in on the recruitment thread means I can count on you to be giving the gameplay thread the visits it needs as well. Also, I cannot, cannot, cannot stress this enough - pay attention to build requirements and submission instructions the GM gives. This is the single most prevalent reason character applications get rejected, and yet it continues and continues to happen.

Rennai's thoughts My single biggest piece of advice: Do what you can to make your character unique. Recruitments tend to be busy, especially for the highly popular Paizo adventure paths, and making yourself stand out will up your chances. There's two ideas within this - making your story unique and making your mechanics unique.

Consciously choosing to fill an important mechanical niche that few (or none) seem to want to fill is probably the best thing you can do to up your chances. If no one's made a character with access to status removal spells (lesser restoration, remove blindness/deafness, etc.) and you make one, you've narrowed your playing field from ten, twenty, or more to just you. Likewise if everyone's making wizards and clerics and you submit a barbarian. It does narrow some what you play, and in bigger recruitments you're unlikely to ever get a niche completely to yourself, but choosing less popular roles does work in your favor.

When it comes to story, do your best to think your character through and make them more than just a ball of mechanics; every character submitted will be a big ball of mechanics. Your character is a cleric of Desna because she gives the (sweet, sweet) Luck and Travel domains - why did your character choose Desna's faith, or did it choose them? You took Magical Lineage because it'll make your spellstrike shocking grasp awesome - why was it your character got so good at manipulating that particular spell? You don't have to justify every choice that way, and you don't have to be married to pre-existing fluff if you come up with a more appropriate way to explain it, but putting that thought into how your character came to be what they are makes a big difference.

Lastly, don't be afraid to use resources to help you flesh out your character if you find you're struggling for inspiration. The ten-minute background is one method; Paizo's own background generator is another. Think on books and movies you've enjoyed; read about the locations you'll be in on the PathfinderWiki and glean interesting details from it to tie yourself in; even just thinking of a few personality quirks can help to distinguish you from the rest.

And most of all, have fun. It can get discouraging to enter several recruitments and lose out on most or all, but if you think of character creation as part of the fun, it gets better. (Personally, I love creating characters, even if they never see the light of day.) Keep characters you've written on hand - it may be that another opportunity will arise that a few tweaks will make them perfect for, and at worst they become an army of NPCs you can have on hand for other games you may be playing in/running. Get into making your characters come alive, and that effort will show.

Whew! That was a little more wordy than I expected to get. ;)


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Btw, Rennai was the GM who took me into my first game, and she is a FANTASTIC GM :).

Dark Archive

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Ok, lets get started! This won't be easy and will be lengthy so have patience!

First things first, I can't stress enough the importance about reading both Doomed Hero's Guide to PBP gaming and Painlord's Advanced PBP guide. You might be new to these boards or an old veteran but I'm pretty sure you'll learn something new that will enhance your games. It is not enough for you to learn to create an awesome PC... you need to be an awesome player, if not the GM will not be happy with you, leading to less fun for everyone. No one likes to be disappointed.

These boards also have to incredible guides focused on how to be a good GM in PBP (Painlord's Guide to PBP GMing) and also how to properly recruit incredible players for your games (Wilmannator's Guide to Successful PBP Recruitment) but I've noticed a lack in material to actually guide you in the process of creating that PC.

This guide is for those good players that, for some reason, aren't being able to get into the games they want. I'm assuming you have already read the two 'must-read' guides mentioned above and that you have the clear intention of being a good player.

********************************

0. Golden Rule: You are aiming to have fun:
If you have already read Wilmannator's guide regarding recruitment, you'll see that I shamelessly stole this rule from him for it is too much important for me not to mention it.

You should only apply to a game in which you think you'll have fun. This seems obvious but is not! I caught myself more times than I'd like to admit in the process of working in a PC to a game that I was not really interested, just because I love to create new PCs! I normally get so involved in this process that once I was in, I was like 'what the hell am I doing here'!

There are plenty of players trying to have fun that if you are not pretty confident that you'd really like to play in that game and that you have the time for it, take a deep breath, control yourself, and move away! Save your energy and creativity for those games that you are really interested.

1. Choosing your Game:
I think you have already noticed that there are good and bad players out there, but there are also good and bad GMs, and even good and bad campaigns/games! Before you start the complete process of creating an incredible PC, take some time to examine the game and the GM in question. Much like a GM can be disappointed by a bad player with an incredible PC, it also occurs for a player to be disappointed with the GM/campaign so it is far better for you to take a look before the whole process than later.

1.1. The GM: This is the easier part actually. Each player have their own definitions about what they like to see in a GM. Many GM's introduce themselves in the beginning of a Recruitment which should give you a pretty good idea if he is the kind of GM you'd like to play with.

For those who don't, you could simply take a look in their profile and check for the other games they are already GMing (if any). Based on your preferences, judge the GM in the following aspects:

  • Number of Games: GMing is a pretty intensive and time consuming thing so if your prospective GM has a huge number of Games under their belt, it could indicate that he will not be really present, which will most likely slow the game pace (already slow in this format). Of course there are exceptions since there is no way for you to know how much time he can actually spend in this amazing hobby.
  • Posting Rate: Take a good look in his posting frequency. This step should be done with care since a GM could eventually wait a day or two for one of his PCs to react so it could be unfair to judge him solely by this. An easier way is to take a look in the that specific campaign's Disccusion board and see if the players are constantly 'poking' the GM for an update.
  • Writing Style: Some GMs are pretty descriptive in their posts, while others just post in OOC, interfering minimally in the game. Each GM has his own style, like Theater of the Mind combat, combat focused, social focused, intensive dice rolling, etc. There is no correct way here but you have the right to have your preferences. Choose your GM wisely for we expect him to do the same regarding his players.
  • Ask his Players: Some players refrain from asking around but PM are there for this! Are you in doubt if such GM is good or not, simply PM one of his players and ask... could not be simple than this!

Once you have taken a look at the GM and think he is of your liking, move to the next step and take a look at the campaign he is offering.

1.2. The Game: This could be pretty simple or even impossible. If the GM is offering a published adventure/module/AP, the easiest thing to do is simply look around the net for some review or opinions, similar to when you are interested in a TV Series or movie and you see a trailer. In the specific case of an AP, the respective player's guide a pretty good source of information. Even if it could be difficult to find a complete spoiler-free version of a review, I think this is far better than spending many months playing something that irrevocably turn in something you don't like.

The difficult part is when the GM is intending to run a Homebrew for there could be no information at all about it! I've seen many GMs that provide lengthy and detailed information about their homebrew but also others that simply give you a paragraph or two about it and that is all! Unfortunately there is no other way to get more information if not directly asking the GM. He should be able to give you enough information about his setting/campaign for you to judge if you are interested or not... if this is not the case, I think it is a pretty clear sign to avoid this game since if even the GM has no idea about his own game, there is a pretty good chance that that particular game will last only a couple weeks at most.

Another pretty important thing to look are the game requirements. Some GMs prefer higher point-by and powerful builds, other prefer lower, some like gestalt, tristalt, or even other formats of their own creations and you should take a look if these rules are of your liking. They are integrated part of the game as much as the GM and the campaign itself!

Now, assuming you have already found an appropriate game for you and you really think you'll have fun, it is time for us to step forward.

2. The Rules of the Recruitment:
Now that you made sure you like the GM, the game/campaign, and the rule involved, you can (please) read them all over again! Really, I can't stress this enough.

For this I'm assuming that the GM is following Wilmannator's guide regarding recruitment, since there is no reason for him to do so differently (I've followed his guide three times and ended up with three incredible parties).

In the Recruitment thread first post, the GM normally makes it pretty clear about everything you need to know to create your PC. Of course none of us are perfect so the GM might eventually forget to mention something that is important but before asking, take a look into the other posts to see if the GM have not already answered the same question from another player. As a GM, I must say it is pretty annoying to have to answer a question over and over again just because some player was lazy and did not look down the other posts.

Following I'll present you with the information that you should be able to 'extract' from the campaign before anything else. Note that some GM's are more organized than others and this step could range from an easy job to a real headache but it is important nevertheless:

2.1. Character Creation Rules: Read these rules with care so you don't get refused from scratch, specially to the more blatantly aspects like class, race, point-buy, and sources allowed. Along the recruitment, a GM might overlook a small mistake like an additional feat or skill point, both of them easily to fix, but the wrong classes or races could mean that you'd have to start all over again.

Aside from the creation rules, there is also two really important thing for you to notice:

  • If the GM said no to something, it is NO, do not insist! If you do insist, the DM could say no again (and even be angry with you, since he was pretty clear in the beginning), or even worse, he could say that you could try and if you impress him, he would allow... this could look like a 'half-yes' but most likely it is a way for the GM to avoid to discuss with you so he agreed to let you try even if he'd never pick you! Of course there could be exceptions to this but I'm making this guide to the majority of games.
  • If the GM said that he doesn't like some specific class or concept (like gunslingers, or occult classes, or even stealthy and full casters), but not specifically forbid them, he is obviously more open than in the first case but do not fool yourself for he'd only take you if he really, like really REALLY likes your PC. Of course, along this guide, I'll try to make all of your future GMs to always really really like your characters but it would be wise if you stay away from them to make your changes of being picked higher.

2.2. Background Creation Rules:This is pretty straight forward. You need to find out the GM's preferences towards the type, length, and information that your background should contain:

  • Type: Normally a GM only asks you to provide the 'common' background, where you'll tell your character's story until the current date or the start of the campaign. Another common request is the famous '10-minute-background' or even a narrative first-person one... it is pretty personal to each GM. Nothing stops you to make one, two, or even more 'types' of background but it is crucial that at least you make the one the GM is asking.
  • Length: You should be able to properly determine the preferable length of the background your GM is expecting. Generally, unless the GM specifically asks for a small one or only a 'general-idea', give him a long and well detailed background. I'll talk more about it in the next sessions.
  • Information: Most GMs do not give you specific information about what he wants to see in your background but some do. If they do, make sure that you'll include the asked information in your background. The GM asked this because of some reason so you should provide it or at least a pretty good reason for not to.

2.3. The 'Focus' of the Game: Since I believe we all agree that we should have fun in a PBP game, it is really important for you to determine the focus of the game and make sure that your PC fits in this focus or at least that you'll have fun with that focus, even if your PC doesn't fit it completely.

What I call 'focus' are the major elements of a game and I divide it in two categories, major and lesser focus and once more are easier to determine in a published game than in a homebrew (if in doubt, ask you GM).

  • Major Focus: This is simply the expected balance between Combat and Social, or Roll-play and Role-play. In most of the games these two aspects are pretty balanced, allowing you to submit almost any sort of PC but it is not always the case. For example, there are a couple campaigns that are really focused on combat, like dungeons and more dungeons (like Rappan Athuk or Shattered Star). Could you play a PC that have little combat skills but great social? Of course you can but would you have fun? Even if more uncommon, the opposite is also true, where a heavily social game could be boring for a fighter for example.
  • Lesser Focus: Many campaigns have a lesser focus or a 'theme' like stealth/manipulation, survival, exploration, undead, outsiders, etc. It is always interesting that your PC fits these themes or at least doesn't 'do not fit'. For an example, could you play an undead slayer in the Wrath of the Righteous AP? Yeah but again, will you have fun?

2.4. How to Submit a PC: This should be pretty simple... what you need to be among the 'finished submission'? Normally this means that you need both your 'crunch' (your sheet/build) and your 'fluff' (your background) but it can also be only one or the other or even something more, like a theme song, a picture, and so on. This is pretty important so double check everything to make sure you'll be able to pull it out.

Here are my first thoughts so far... everything is still a work in progress but I thought it would be better to post whatever I've already created while I dive in the 'heavy stuff'. If any of you could express your opinions/advices, I'd be really glad! Next I'll be actually moving on to the Crunch and Fluff part of the guide, as well as a session about tips to how to behave in a recruitment thread!

Liberty's Edge

My 2 cents:
If I have to recommend something to a new member of this community, it would be:
- Pick you battles: Not all games are good for you. There will be games where the system, posting schedule, style of play or rule set don't match with what you can / want to play. In that case is not worth it to try, and even get selected, if you are not going to get selected / enjoy the game anyway.
- The Golden Rule: Make a submission for a character you fell enthusiastic to play. Sometimes the inspiration is not there. Sometimes we don't "feel it". If we are unable to make a good submission is better not to do it. We must try to propose a character we feel involved and interested in, so the DM is able to see it.
- The cherry in the pie: Make a character the DM wants in his campaign. Follow the DM instructions. If he asks for human characters, don't propose a drow. If he asks for a drow party, don't propose an aasimar. If he wants a magic free game, don't make a wizard. If he wants a game of wilderness exploration, save your ranger for other game. If he is looking for heroes, don't make evil madmen. If he wants a gritty anti-heroes don't make a paladin. If he wants fluff, give him fluff. If he is looking to use a particular system or subsystem, do something he can get a excited about with that rule set. If he wants the submitted characters to Roleplay, do it. If he doesn't, don't.
Finally, the Wheaton rule: Don't be a dick. Be polite, helpful, patient, and grateful. Wish good luck to those selected, and words of comfort to those that aren't.
Extra tip: Keep monitoring the recruitment threads. Sometimes people abandon a game, and to be able to resubmit a character that wasn't selected the first time is a very easy way to have a second opportunity for a game.

Dark Archive

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Here is the next part...

3. The 'Crunch':
Now you must be asking "-Hey, are you really going to try to teach us how to build a PC? Are you an expert after all?" And the answer is no. I do not think I'm better than anyone in building a PC... the rules are there, easily accessible to everyone and I'm actually expecting that you are already quite capable of building a PC.

The really tricky part is that during your build process, aside from the Rules of the Recruitment part, you also need to find the balance between a PC that you'll have fun, that your GM will like, and that will be better than the other applicants.

3.1. Picking your Class/Niche: Selecting you class might look like just another part of your character build but there are a couple important things to consider before you make your decision and for these, the better place for you to gather this information is along the other posts in the recruitment thread... be it from the other players or the GM himself:

  • How many players the GM will take?: This looks like irrelevant but it is not! The fewer the party the greater number of roles your PC will have to cover; the bigger it is, more specialized your PC can be. Want to make a blaster sorcerer with almost no skills and only offensive spells? Nothing is stopping you but you'll have a better chance in a bigger party than in a small since the GM will probably not count you among the 'arcane fix' spot. Most of the published campaigns assume that you are playing in a balanced party not because of 'power level' but because all kind of players should be able to play it. Even if I do not follow that old fighter/cleric/wizard/rogue scheme, it is a perfect example of a functioning 4-player party and even if a fighter/barbarian/cavalier/cleric/wizard/rogue will work in a 6-player party, a fighter/barbarian/cavalier/rogue will probably not work!
  • The 'Competition': You can use the other applicants PCs/ideas to increase your changes to getting picked! By taking a look at the other players PCs and how the GM reacted to them, you can better guide your own creation... the GM is bickering about unusual classes? Favor a core one; the GM doesn't like occult classes? Stay away from them. You should also take a look at their classes and intended roles... no one created a sneaky/social PC yet? This might be your chance! From the 10 current applicants for that Wrath of the Righteous game, 8 have built a paladin? Try to avoid that class.

In the end, you should still follow the Golden Rule of having fun so if you'd really like to play a class that has already a heavy competition, go for it but you must no that your chances will be smaller and your work will be harder.

3.2. Picking your Stats: Aside from your class, the stats are in my opinion, the second thing that will mostly dictate you build. It might look a simple job but it should be made carefully depending on what is the GM preferences regarding power-level. Unless a GM specifically asks/allows for optimized builds, try to avoid them. The same thing could be said to the opposite... no one want to play with a 10 Intelligence wizard! You should strike the balance between the two extremes.

Obviously the definition of 'Optimization' change from player to player. In general, I'd advice you to make the most balanced PC as you can. The big problem with optimization is that all the players should be in the same level... no one likes when one of the PCs is killing everything while the others just sit behind much like no one likes to always have to take care of a dead weight.

To be honest I'd really like to talk more about stats, even giving a few examples but since the point-buy is too variable as well as the method of stat generation (point-buy, roll 4d6, roll 2d6+6, etc), this would take too long. In general, I avoid to spend more than half of my points in a single stat and have a personal max of only one negative stat (usually no lower than 8).

3.3. Spending your Skill Points: I know skills are precious things, specially for those poor 2+INT classes but you should try to make sense with them. Once again, try to be generalist. This is easier when you are creating high level PCs since you can always '1-point-dip' in a couple skills, making your PC ready for many challenges. For every skill point you spend during creation, think if it would make sense for you background.

A good advice to better create your PC are the optional Background Skills system. In my opinion they are a great system and I've seen that most of the GMs like them as well so make sure to ask your GM about them if they are not listed in the creation rules. With this system in play, please make sure to actually use them for background purposes! If you are a bard, use a regular skill for perform for an example, saving these 2 sweet points for something else.

Another good advice is to try to be really good in something. Pick a skill and make sure you are good at it if possible. It is not only fun to succeed in most of the checks involving them but also when the other players start to regard you as 'an specialist' through RP... it is quite gratifying.

3.4. Final touches... being unique: Obviously the most important part of your character that will make it unique is his background but sometimes, it is also good to make your build also unique. When a GM is looking into your PC, you must give him the impression that your PC is something different from the general rule... he'll read your application and start to imagine how fun would be for him to have you in one of his games in a similar way of when you decide how to buy a book... would you buy a book that simply says 'Book about a warrior'? I'd not. Here are some ideas about how to make your PCs unique via its crunch:

  • Unusual Race: If your GM allows it (if he express that he prefers normal one, avoid this), making a PC using an unusual race might be pretty interesting and give you an edge from scratch. This is of course a big gamble since races are pretty personal in my opinion. Also avoid this option if there are many 'unusual races' already on the run for this takes your unusualness from you, actually creating the dreadful 'Star Wars Cantina' effect that many GMs hate.
  • Unusual Classes: Nowadays, there are so many classes and archetypes that it should be pretty impossible for two PCs look much alike (without even considering 3pp material) but it is actually pretty common to see similar PCs in the same recruitment thread. Sometimes, simple concept changes could be awesome... like not every barbarian need to have a big weapon much like not every rogue needs to be stealthy. Nowadays I see magus, gunslingers, and swashbucklers everywhere... why not a shaman, or a skald, or even a cavalier?
  • Unusual Equipment: Sometimes, just picking a different weapon already makes you PC unique, like twin kukris, a double weapon, thrown weapons, a trident, or an exotic weapon. The same applies to armor and shields (even if in a smaller grade). Stop to think too much about which is the best weapon and focus more on originality.
  • Unusual Spells: One thing that I always see are the same spells in almost every spellcaster. Sure, there are clearly better spells than the others but the in the end all of them are the same. Try to pick different spells, like think about a theme and tries to pick only spells that fit that theme... of course this will limit your choices but is also quite fun.

In the end, when your GM is making his decision, you must be in his mind as 'oh that forge themed wizard' or the 'hammer throwing barbarian' instead of magus n°1 and magus n°2.

Dark Archive

Here comes the next part, the Fluff! Took me more time than I expected and even so I believe there is much more to add...

4. The 'Fluff':
Alright, this part is the 'real deal' about your PC so if you really want to get picked, you should dedicate yourself to this part. There are players and GMs that don't really care about background but this guide is not indented to them since, in my opinion, a good background is extremely important to good RP... this is where you distinguish from one PC to another. I know I can't speak for every GM out there but I'd soon pick a PC with a strong background and a 'weak' sheet before a mechanically strong PC with a poor background.

As mentioned before, there are a couple forms of background that you can create but I'll focus mainly on the standard type, the 10-minute-background format, and the narrative, firstly by speaking about the basics. If you have access to the Ultimate Campaign book, there is a whole session talking about character background that is really worth a reading.

4.1. Length: The length of a background is closely related to the amount of crucial information that you need to put inside it. I'll be honest with you that in my own games/recruitments when I see a two-short-paragraphs background, sometimes I do not even read it and most of the times I don't look at neither the crunch nor the player. I might be wrong but in my mind I already label these players as 'lazy roll-players'... I might be losing the opportunity to play with good players but so far I'm pretty happy with the ones I've picked.

The reason behind the lack of GMs in these boards is because it takes time to properly run a good game and the LEAST a player should do is to spend a couple minutes writing a proper background.

I've found that 4-6 paragraphs are the sweet spot. Less than that and you'll most likely leave the GM with questions (that he may ask you or just discard you for the lack of information) and too much more the GM might be busy/bored to read all about it.

This isn't just about quantity but also about quality. You should try to balance the amount of information and description in each paragraph. To make it easier, I'll give you an example:

  • Good Information/Description: Astrid is the daughter of one of Grand Prince Stavian's Ulfen Guard, Gunnar Helmson, and was raised on the periphery of the court in Oppara. Her mother passed giving birth to her, their only child, and Gunnar doted on his sole progeny. Even as a child, she had a bit of a brash and rebellious streak, especially compared to most of the Taldane nobles she was surrounded by. Gunnar did little to dissuade this, even going so far as to secure a weapons master to work with her and teach her swordplay, as well as instructing her in the veneration of Gorum and the cultivation of great physical strength. Even with her wild side, her father's station afforded her a fair bit of prestige...
  • Bad Information: It was already high in the night when Lady Orvana screamed for the first time. Two dogs barked in the dark streets of Tamrivena, probably chasing a cat. The duke paced around the hall of the Lanberton Manor, anxiously waiting for the for the so expected information about his new child... he loved both his daughters Eliana, the older one, around six years old and fond of running around the property, and Kalina, the younger one, around 3 winters only and with the most beautiful smile in the whole Principality of Canterwall, but it was clear to everyone that he was expecting a boy this time. The door opened suddenly but instead of answers the midwife provided only more doubts when she asked for the doctor to be called and fetched for more blankets. Doctor Branton arrived a couple minutes later and after the longest forty minutes of his live the duke heard the baby's cry and soon after opened the door. His wife was pale in the bad, covered in blood and holding the small baby. She was too weak and the last words the duke heard was: "Her name is Ella... promise me you'll love her just like..."
  • Bad Description: Dorgar's father was the chieftain of his clan and his mother also warrior and with four elder strong brothers Dorgar knew he had to impress his clan. As soon as he was able to grab a weapon, Dorgar started his journey to prove to his family that he would be the one to inherit his father's title. By eleven he had already defeated four orcs and survived.
As you might have noticed, in the first 'bad example' there was too much description and almost no useful information while in the second 'bad example' there was too much information and almost no description. The 'good example' strikes the balance between good information and good description. Obviously I exaggerated in both the bad examples to make it easy for you to spot the differences between the two.

4.2. Information: I usually prefer to create a chronological background, starting from my PC birth to the current days and it looks like the general preference also. This is a pretty good method since it makes everything easier for the DM to 'feel' your character. Following I'll talk more about good information that you should try to include in your character's background, separated by a period of life.

  • Early Life: Like in real life, the experiences in our childhood have a big impact on the rest of our lives so it might be a good idea for you to incorporate this to your PC's background. Where was your PC born (city/town/kingdom)? Are his parents/siblings still alive? Was he adopted? How was his life back then? Which was his major childhood event and how it changed him? It is always good to take in consideration the life span of your PC's race since the number of years in an elf's childhood are completely different from a human one.
  • Adolescence: I'm pretty sure none of you believe that someone turns into a skilled fighter/rogue/wizard out of the blue so your PC should not be an exception from this (usually)! You should be able to tell the GM how your PC managed to learn all the stuff he knows and a pretty good hint about how to do this is simply take a look at your PC's class description. It is pretty easy to assume that most of the religious classes (cleric/inquisitor/monk/paladin) should have spent a pretty good amount of time in an appropriate temple; the bookish classes (alchemist/bard/magus/wizard) have enrolled in an academy or had a mentor; the wild classes (barbarian/druid/ranger) should have a significant experience in the wilderness; the spontaneous casters (oracle/sorcerer) should probably explain why/who they got their abilities! There is nothing wrong if your PC learnt everything by himself but if it is the case, tell your GM about it.
  • Adulthood: This last part of your PC's life could be as long or as short as you want solely based on your PC's starting age. Many GMs (me included) do not apply Age bonus/penalties during the PC creation so you are free to create PCs from whatever age you like, an aspect that many players overlook. Try to remember about the movies/books you like and you'll probably notice that only a small fraction of them have only "teenagers/young adults" as the main characters. In many cases it makes much more sense for you to create older PCs, like a wizened wizard or a almost-retired war veteran. If you decide to create an older PC, please give the GM information about his adult live as well. Does he have a wife/husband/kids? Where does/did he worked? Why would he leave his 'settled' life to adventure again?

Much like in a job interview, the information you give to your GM are crucial for him to decide if he wants to have your PC as one of his main characters or not. Another similarity occurs when you compare a good/bad background with a good/bad curriculum vitae... you can get a job quickly with a good one or spend countless days walking around with a bad one.

4.3. Theme: Since the beginning we have worked with the assumption that you are creating your PC specifically for the game you have selected so theme is a really important aspect since your PC should generally have something in common to the GM's campaign. There is nothing wrong with creating a completely 'fish out of the water' PC but in my opinion it is generally better (and more rewarding) to follow the flow. Your GM is preparing a intense jungle campaign? So make a PC that will be happy with it and even wish to join the expedition!

I believe that sometimes it is fun to do the complete opposite since it could give everyone a pretty good RP opportunity but make it an occasional thing not a rule. For an example, creating a fully armored PC in a pirate adventure is not only 'weird' but you'll also hinder yourself... a funny gnome could fit many games but perhaps it is not a good idea in a horror themed game... why would an infamous pirate leave his crew to travel countless miles inland to delve in a dungeon? I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find an answer to these questions but bear in mind that your GM will have the right to disagree with you.

Another good thing about following and specific theme is that it allows the GM to easily pick players/PCs that will probably work well together, making the adventure fun for everyone... I believe you'll not want to be the one gnome making jokes when the rest of the party are trying to enjoy a tense horror/thriller plot. Just to empathize this, in a couple of my own recruitment threads I've have came across pretty good PCs with awesome backgrounds but that somehow was away from the theme of the campaign.

4.4. Main Hook: Normally your GM will be able to provide you with a general/specific idea about where the campaign will start or the first scene so I think it is also a pretty important thing for you to tailor the end of your background in a way that your PC has a reason to be there and to commit to the campaign/plot. I call this the "Main Hook", the think that will link your PC to the game and the more convincingly you are about it the better.

I'll have to derail myself a little bit to talk about a pretty common thing that is incredibly common: the Adventurer Syndrome. I know this is deeply rooted in the whole hobby of RPG that someone with a wanderlust would "roam around the globe seeking adventures, occasionally being at the right time in the right place to start the campaign". Simply try to avoid this whenever you can. It is really boring and uncreative in my opinion and even has the drawback that I always ask myself "If your PC is just passing by, what would keep him from leaving afterwards?" Many PCs are Good-Aligned but even for them it is a wide stretch in my opinion.[/end derail]

Returning to the Main Hook concept, try to make sure your PC have a compelling reason to join the campaign and I'm pretty sure the GM will reward you for this. If the campaign is focused in defeating demons, just having a lasting grudge or a family loss would suffice but actively looking for a missing sister would be even more rewarding!

4.5. Fleshing Out - the 10-minute-background: I must confess that I truly like this format of background (even if a couple GMs hate it) but ONLY in conjunction with the normal one. I've found that this quick background is perfect for fleshing out our PCs, making them truly unique, but lacks the intense and deeper information provided by the usual background format. When submitting a PC I usually create both the normal background and this quick one. If you also decide to do so (or your GM asks specifically), try to avoid repeating the already provided information from your normal background into this new one.

The famous (or infamous) 10-minute-background is a five-step questionnaire that actually hardly takes you more than 10 minutes to create:

  • Step 1: Write at least 5 concept elements that you feel are important to your image of the character. These can be a concept overview, a list of important life events, a physical description, a personality profile...whatever you need to get an image in your mind. If you are opting for only providing this format of background, this session should be as detailed as possible, since you can put a lot of information here, but if you choose to use it as a complement, you can be as concise as you want. Even if your PC isn't a LG paladin, everyone has his own beliefs so it is nice to think about them. Good examples: Yuln is utterly loyal to his companions, even if it takes time for him to fully trust a stranger... she hates goblins more than anything since they killed her parents, almost frenzying when she sees them... He is so self sufficient that he never accepts any help from anyone.
  • Step 2: List at least 2 goals for the character. At least one of these goals should be one that the character has, while another should be one that you, as a player, want to see developed over the course of the game. This is a pretty interesting thing to tell your GM to avoid any problems in the future and also to make it easy for you to have fun. If you built your PC around a heirloom magic sword, it is also a good idea to make sure the GM knows how it is important to you so it is not inconsequently destroyed by a rusk monster. Good examples: Wish that he engages in a romantic relationship... Wish that she finds her father... Wish to become a notorious pirate... Wish to build his own guild... Wish to see my paladin falling to a dark god...
  • Step 3: List at least 2 secrets about your character. One is a secret the character knows, one is a secret that involves him but that he is not actually aware of yet. This could be a lot fun and create pretty good RP opportunities if made correctly but you must keep in mind that sometimes it will be practically impossible for your GM to use it... if you have arrested parents in the south, and the campaign takes you north, it will make little sense, right? Even if this refers to 'secrets', remember that they need not to be dire secrets... your PC could have caused his parent's deaths or be secretly homosexual despite his father wishes him to marry the duchess! Good examples: He has a crush to another PC/NPC... he is secretly devoted to a slightly different God... he is not a wizard, but a sorcerer... she blames herself for her parent's death... His terrifying father is still alive and looking for him... his soul was sold to an evil entity before he was born.
  • Step 4: Describe at least 3 people that are tied to the character. Two of them are friendly to the character, one is hostile. This could also be as deep or shallow as you wish and this step is one of the most dependent to your GM and his campaign. Ask him if he wants to use it or simply give him your ideas but bear in mind that many times it will not be possible to incorporate all/any of them into the campaign. Local adventures could benefit a lot from this, creating hooks and more hooks but distant campaigns could mean that you'll never see them again (unless some of them are looking for you). If you plan on taking the leadership feat, it is always a good idea to think about it before and perhaps one of this 'people' is a future cohort. Good examples: A friend and also retired war veteran... a jealous ex-girlfriend/wife... a lost son... a bitter professor that blames you for his arrest... a bounty hunter looking for you.
  • Step 5: Describe at least 3 mannerisms, or quirks that your character has. They don't have to be elaborate, but they should provide some context and flavor. This step could be pretty similar to the first step with the difference that this is more light hearted and more towards the 'additional fluff' rather than 'important concepts'. Imagine this as the first layer stuff that the others will notice about your PC, much like you quickly notice a person with a funny-shaped nose. Good examples: Never had any sexual/romantic experience... Is completely terrified by bugs... Since never knew her parents, has trouble trusting anyone... Always tries to remain as clean as possible.

4.6. Narrative Background and RP sample: Some GM ask for this and even a few players freely offer this when submitting a PC and it could be quite rewarding to provide one, making a small test drive in your new PC personality. This kind of background could be the more immersing one but have a big problem: the length. I believe none of you will like to write pages and pages of background but in a narrative one, if you write just a bit, a small scene, how much important information will you be able to provide regarding your PC's life? Not much.

Because of this, I advise you, if you definitely want to use this format, to pick a small scene that plays to your PC's strength, and use it as a complement to any of the other types. I've already received PCs containing just this and I always asked for the normal one to fully judge if the PC fitted my game.

*********************************

To wrap everything regarding your fluff, I've found out that the more time I spent during my PC's creation process, more intrigued/enthusiastic I feel about them when the game starts and more satisfying is my experience. It pays off. PBP is a slow game format that takes from months to years to complete games/campaigns and the most important thing is to keep good Role Playing coming from all involved parts and better defined/created PCs gives a big bump to this. The more involved you feel with your PC the smaller is the chance that after almost a year playing in a game you 'lose interest about her'.

Dark Archive

Last bits!

5. Final Tips and 'Good Behavior':
By now I assume you have successfully found a good game/campaign with an amazing GM, read/planned thoroughly about the best PC that you could create and actually finished it to your heart's content! Now the only thing to do is go to the recruitment page and submit your PC, right? Yes, but make sure to do it properly!

5.1. Organization: I believe that since you spent this much time working on your PC you should be able to quickly find any information but the same could not be said by the other players and the GM.

  • Format your crunch with the usual "Bestiary Format" that seems to be the largely preferred format and give appropriate links to 'not so common' races/classes/feats/traits/etc to make it easy for your GM to check everything.
  • Present your information in spoilers but refrain from overdoing it! It is really a pain to open/close 10+ spoilers to find that little information you are looking for.
  • Create an alias (*hiding in the corner from the flying arrows*). I know many players do not like to create tons of aliases that will probably never be used, but I'm just asking for you to create it, not post with it! Putting all your crunch/fluff information under an alias and linking it to the recruitment thread makes the GM's life really easier and lessens the chances of you being forgotten in the tide of prospective players!
  • If you do not like the idea of creating an alias, at least post every bit of information (under spoilers PLEASE) in a single post! No GM wants to search in his recruitment thread for 3+ posts with bits of your PC's information.

5.2 Timing: Even if you manage to create an incredible PC, try to finish it a couple days before the last cut... this is really important when the competition is fiercer and the number of players are too hi. In my experience, as soon as a player submits a PC, I take a look and already think if he is a good fit or not for my game and this could go in two ways: a PC that I don't like which I'll try to make it better with my comments/questions or a PC that I really like and will probably use it as a base to help the other selection. The longer you take to submit a PC, more players will have already 'get the GM attention' and it will be harder for your PC to take its place.

5.3 Writing Skills: Oh, this is a really big deal! English is not my first language and I'm pretty sure I always make mistakes regarding spelling and general grammar but even to me, some players are just terrible and their posts are PAINFUL to read. I'm not saying that you can't make any mistakes but try to write properly! I believe it is a big let down for many GMs. I'm not saying this to demotivate non-English speakers but if it is the case, let the GM know about it right from the beginning and it makes the utmost difference.

5.4 Be Polite and Helpful: To be honest, once you have finished your PC and submitted it, you need not to do anything else and many GMs even dislike that kind of player who keeps posting and posting in their recruitment threads just to 'be present'... I don't really care but it is just me (Oh, and we generally can easily spot a ball-licker player!). If you like to constant post, be helpful, trying to help the general recruitment like posting a list of players if no one else did, or giving useful advices regarding crunch/fluff to other players. This is an indirect example of someone who is a good team player.

5.5 Check the recruitment regularly: No GM is perfect and it is quite common for him/her to change a couple 'rules' in the middle of the recruitment process so it is pretty important to check at least once/day to make sure your finished PC is still 'complete'. To make it easier you can just read the GM's posts, ignoring the rest of the other player's posts. If you can spare the time, just before finishing cut, post something wishing everyone luck or just reminding the GM that you are still interested (important for really longer recruitments).

To wrap everything regarding getting into a pretty good game, I'd like to wish you luck because even if you do everything correctly in the best way you can, still then there is no real guarantee that you'll be successful because there are countless hidden factors in your GM's mind when he makes his selections, like an old player/friend decides to join with a rogue meaning that your incredible rogue will unfortunately be refused.

It is still a tough world out there and it will even become harder and harder since it looks like the number of players are increasing way more faster the number of GMs (I believe it is always like this though). I know it looks like I'm being a bit controversial saying this after this guide but I truly believe that even if the competition is harsh, you can ONLY GAIN by making the best PCs you can.

That being said, GOOD LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE GAMES!

I think I'm done so what is really needed is some feedback (if any is still interested)!


Hi Longears!

Good guide and an enjoyable read. Just a couple of thoughts, and apologies if I missed these in my read-through:

1. Using media, like images or music, is a great way to enhance fluff and show a GM you're serious about the character.

2. Use of "adult" content. Honestly. When I see players referring to the size of their female character's breasts it's just a huge turn off for me. Even if they're a good roleplayer I'm immediately prejudiced against them and therefore less likely to consider their submission. I know that not all GMs feel this way, but it is a risk.

Dark Archive

Thanks for the help Wicked!

1. I'll add a session about additional media on Step 5 (since it is neither part of the crunch nor the fluff). I just noticed that I also forgot to mention the importance about that old part called "Description and Personality" (shame on me)!

2. I was about to disagree with you but then I searched about what is considered Adult Content in US (since it might differ from country to country) and I noticed it is mostly related to nudity/erotic content so now I completely agree with you. Adding adult content to a PC for the sake of adding it is just plainly bad.

I believe that is nothing wrong with making a more "sexual oriented PC" (looking at you cleric of Calistria), but that is part of that specific PC and even so should be done with care. I'll also add a session about this on Step 5!

Thank you once more!


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Sir Longears wrote:
I believe that is nothing wrong with making a more "sexual oriented PC" (looking at you cleric of Calistria),

I'd be very very careful about this. If you're never going to use that character in a mixed gender group, then you might be able to do this. But if anyone in your group is tired of toxic sexist gaming tropes, then you rish offending them no matter what their gender.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I can only speak from a player's perspective at this point, but it looks like nearly everything that I can think of has been covered by one or more people. I feel compelled to echo Corsario's suggestions especially:

(1) Be selective in what you apply for. Only apply to games that you're genuinely interested in and that you know you'd like to participate in. This may still wind up being a fairly broad range (for example I'm game to try just about any of the official Paizo APs though I do have some higher on the list than others) but in the long run it'll work out better for you, the player, in that you're only channeling your energy towards what you're really enthusiastic about and for the GM because they'll be choosing from people that truly want to be part of their game. I suspect some GMs are likely put off by players that are applying to any and every new recruitment that pops up.

(2) Pay attention to what the GM wants. That's a big one and it bears repeating. If something is banned, don't try to argue for an exception. If the GM seems uncomfortable about allowing something (and it's usually easy to pick up on if they are) then don't push it and try to come up with a different concept that you are happy with and that also works within the recruitment parameters. If you can't do that, then maybe it's not the right game for you. And there's nothing wrong with that.

(3) If you're unsure about something and it's not explicitly clarified in the recruitment post, ask! Sometimes potential players think of things the GM might have forgotten to mention or hadn't considered. Or for example, background length - I've seen GMs that don't want them too long and others that don't want them too short. So it might be something good to ask about if it's not stated outright.

(4) Don't get discouraged. This is a big one. There are only so many GMs running games and so many spots to go around. Rejection will be a thing that happens and it can be for any number of reasons that may not have anything to do with how good your submission was - maybe the GM liked your application but wanted a more 'balanced' party, maybe they wanted to have a player with a known posting history, maybe they wanted to give newer players a shot, or maybe they were set on a certain number of players and just couldn't take on another one. Don't take it personally and just keep on trying.

(5) If you didn't make the cut, shoot the GM a PM and (nicely) ask why. Although there's no obligation for them to give you an answer, I except the large majority of GMs here would be happy to explain their reasoning and perhaps give suggestions on how to improve your applications for a future recruitment.

*edit* Re: 'sexual' PCs - When in doubt, ask the GM and/or your fellow players to see what they would be comfortable with. I think it's possible to create a cleric of Calistria that doesn't fall into trope territory but I do agree that a person would need to be very careful about playing this sort of PC. I (personally) think it would work best if played as just one of several facets of a character, rather than being the One And Only Thing that defines them.

Dark Archive

CrystalSeas wrote:
Sir Longears wrote:
I believe that is nothing wrong with making a more "sexual oriented PC" (looking at you cleric of Calistria),
I'd be very very careful about this. If you're never going to use that character in a mixed gender group, then you might be able to do this. But if anyone in your group is tired of toxic sexist gaming tropes, then you rish offending them no matter what their gender.

I completely agree with you. Some PCs aren't meant to be run in some situations and no one should ever push them with the risk of offending someone. I have once created a cleric of Calistria but ONLY AFTER asking the other players how they'd feel about it.

To avoid derailing this thread, I think we all (me, Wicked, CrystalSeas, and Lady Ladile) have agreed that adult content should never be used lightly and even if someone decides to use it, he should definitely ask the other players/GM about it before anything else. I'll add a session about it to the guide.

Thanks once more for the help.

@Lady Ladile: I completely agree with you. Numbers 1, 2, and 3 are already talked about in the guide. I think it also might be good to add something about number 4 and 5. Thank you for your contribution, you have good points.


Nice. I've been meaning to put together a thread like this, but you've said what I basically wanted to and more besides.

Late to the party now, I suppose, but I'll answer the questions, though I'm fairly new to the GM game.

Crunch or fluff?
I like reading the fluff more than the crunch. I do like seeing builds laid out but, from the GM side, am mainly just looking to avoid power gaming.

Small/Detailed backgrounds?
I think quite differently from you on backgrounds. I like them short; I feel like conciseness is important, partly because I find it difficult, and I find longer ones hard to read sometimes. I'm fine with a backstory not being complicated if there are other indicators (personality, sample roleplay) of who a character is. Just because he wasn't a half-elven prince switched at birth doesn't mean 'farmboy who made good' can't be an interesting character.

Plenty of hooks/generic PC?
I like there to be at least one hook, something personal I can throw in for the character specifically. I'm running the same solo module for two different characters (I suppose recruitment went *too* well, LOL) but started them quite differently based on the characters' place in the world. Adapting it to fit them was a lot of fun.

Number of Games the player is already in?
I am interested in seeing any previous roleplay, but a new player with a good application wouldn't have that held against them. If a player had a lot of games going on, I would check posting rates.

The attention the player pays to your posts?
The less attention received in recruitment, the less impressed I would be, though I definitely understand how easy it is to miss one little thing. I thought I would really dislike people asking, "Oh, can I be [thing outside the allowed list]?", but there were some interesting suggestions worth considering.

I would side-eye anyone going completely out of bounds, though, e.g. one game where we were picking replacements and at least one homebrew class was posted without much explanation.


ellequoi wrote:

Crunch or fluff?

I like reading the fluff more than the crunch. I do like seeing builds laid out but, from the GM side, am mainly just looking to avoid power gaming.

This I disagree with. While fluff can make / break character acceptance, it is the last thing I look at. I run APs, so having a team that covers what is needed is more important to me, thus I like to see the build laid out somewhat.

ellequoi wrote:

Small/Detailed backgrounds?

I think quite differently from you on backgrounds. I like them short; I feel like conciseness is important, partly because I find it difficult, and I find longer ones hard to read sometimes.

Agree completely. As this is most likely a level 1 character, anything more than a paragraph or two at the most is way too much. At my age, I could be dead by the time I finish reading some of the fluff that folks provide.

ellequoi wrote:

Plenty of hooks/generic PC?

I like there to be at least one hook, something personal I can throw in for the character specifically.

Generic, but a hook is ok.

ellequoi wrote:

Number of Games the player is already in?

I am interested in seeing any previous roleplay, but a new player with a good application wouldn't have that held against them. If a player had a lot of games going on, I would check posting rates.

Don't look at this.

ellequoi wrote:

The attention the player pays to your posts?

The less attention received in recruitment, the less impressed I would be, though I definitely understand how easy it is to miss one little thing. I thought I would really dislike people asking, "Oh, can I be [thing outside the allowed list]?", but there were some interesting suggestions worth considering.

This would eliminate a submission from the get go. I generally provide fairly detailed character generation instructions, but do not cover every possible detail. If asked, I respond, but if someone else keeps asking, they get written off. That and someone "arguing" with me about how restrictive my creation instructions are. If you don't like the guidelines, don't apply.

-- david

Dark Archive

Thank you ellequoi and DM Papa.DRB for your opinions for they are really important! You are far from late since what I've posted so far are more like a sketch than the final thing.

@ellequoi: I'm pretty happy that we agree with many things since the more GM agree with at least the general ideas, it means it becomes more and more useful for the players... there is no point for me to create a guide to help players to get on 'my games only'!

@DM Papa.DRB: Thanks again for you opinions, even if they are quite conflictive with my general ideal since you favor the crunch of the fluff. I'm not really sure how to apply this guide to players trying to get into one of your games. I've found that most of the GMs I've contacted highly prefer fluff over crunch!


Sir Longears wrote:

Thank you ellequoi and DM Papa.DRB for your opinions for they are really important! You are far from late since what I've posted so far are more like a sketch than the final thing.

@DM Papa.DRB: Thanks again for you opinions, even if they are quite conflictive with my general ideal since you favor the crunch of the fluff. I'm not really sure how to apply this guide to players trying to get into one of your games. I've found that most of the GMs I've contacted highly prefer fluff over crunch!

Easy.

The general rule is give the DM what they ask for. If a DM says provide a description, and a paragraph or two of history, that is a sign that the DM, while recognizing that fluff is needed, it is not the most important factor. I have seen / followed groups where the characters were chosen solely on fluff, never made it past the first few encounters..

I said (Bolded relevant portion):

DM Papa.DRB wrote:
This I disagree with. While fluff can make / break character acceptance, it is the last thing I look at. I run APs, so having a team that covers what is needed is more important to me, thus I like to see the build laid out somewhat.

My rules for picking a group.

1) Divide the submissions into categories: Warrior, Skill, Arcane*, Divine*, Other
2) Rank the submissions in a category according to crunch: Viable**, non-Viable
3) Pick the "best", based on fluff and other intangible factors, of the Viable submissions in each category.
(* - 9th level spells
** - survivable and meets the role needs)

Notice that fluff plays a role, but it is a deciding factor, not a primary factor. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to comment, and taking into consideration someones views who are different than yours.

-- david

Dark Archive

Hum... in the end it looks like we agree much more than I first have anticipated and I agree with you regarding games that the players are chosen solely on fluff... I've never even applied to them!

In the beginning of the guide I mention that the first thing you should do is to discover the GM's preferences.

When I look for players I follow a similar path:

1)Divide the submissions in Full BAB, arcane, divine, and 3/4 BAB... in the end both mine and yours work just fine I think.
2)Rank the submissions according to fluff: those that I like, those that could be improved with some help and those that I really don't like.
3)Pick the best from each category in a way that I end with a balanced party.

That being said, despite we prioritize differently fluff or crunch, I think we both end up with pretty good PCs that are strong on both aspects. Obviously I'd not pick a PC with an awesome fluff that shows a poorly built PC in the same way I imagine you would refrain from taking a pretty good built PC with a ridiculous fluff...

I think I should make this clearer in the guide since it appears from scratch that I care solely for the fluff, even if I prioritize it.


Sir Longears wrote:
Hum... in the end it looks like we agree much more than I first have anticipated....

Yup, we agree more than we disagree.

Sir Longears wrote:
.....in the same way I imagine you would refrain from taking a pretty good built PC with a ridiculous fluff...

Again, Yup, a paragraph or two does not mean one sentence.

-- david


Crunch or fluff?
As I like to run more character driven games, I need strong characters that will act rather than passively wait for a fight as a pile of stats. Fluff should be detailed and well thought out, and the crunch should reflect the fluff, not the other way around in my opinion. I'm all for effective characters, but I believe characters should have weakness, to make them truly real.

Small/Detailed backgrounds?
A decent amount of writing and thought should go into the background. It could be as expansive as the player wants, but they should also be able to condense it to a quick summary for the sake of showing they can focus on the main points.

Plenty of hooks/generic PC?
A generic PC is fine but it should be fine-tuned to the specific game they are applying too. An outsider to a heavily inclusive story-driven plot may create for interesting character conflicts and misunderstandings, but each character should be unique and have his/her own experiences to draw from.

Number of Games the player is already in?
I generally don't mind if the player is inexperienced, but they must have a willingness to post. Not just throw up a quick singular action (as I am guilty of as well). They should be reactionary and pro-actionary at every moment when given the chance as it fosters the other characters to get involved as well.

The attention the player pays to your posts?
They should be able to understand the detail that goes into posts since posting is the only form of communication between players and DM. Whether you can assume certain details or not, that is up to the DM, but I personally don't mind when players take some initiative and decide details on their own.


My answers:

Crunch or fluff?
I value these at about 40/60. A solid character crunchwise means to me that the player has some proficiency (and presumably knowledge) of game mechanics and wants to be an effective party member. That has value to me.
Good fluff I value a bit more because it infers creativity and evocative writing, which are more important to my brand of fun. I want chunky posts, even alongside combat rolls. I don't like boring combat posts like "Sir Zedman swings his sword at the goblin.", followed by a dice roll. If someone writes some good fluff, that implies they value writing and will likely have more flavorful posts on a regular basis.

Small/Detailed backgrounds?
Too small of a background (a paragraph or so) demonstrates laziness or lack of creativity. I've read some phenomenal backgrounds that were thousands of characters long, and while I appreciate them I don't require them. I want my player's backgrounds to be more than an afterthought but I don't want anyone to feel required to write a novel.

Put in a couple of pivoting plot points, maybe a villain and/or hero/mentor who shaped your PC's life in some way, and a small bit of history. That is sufficient for what I'm looking for.

Plenty of hooks/generic PC?
This one depends on the campaign, I suppose. This also plays in the last question "the attention the player pays to your posts", at least in regards to the recruitment post and the campaign info provided.

I want my players to feel that their character has depth and means something, but I wouldn't want people to go out of their way to thrust plot hooks at me. That's more of my job as the GM.

Number of Games the player is already in?
I may be the odd one out here, but this means little to me. In fact, I will probably not pick someone if I see they're in multiple games at once for two reasons: 1) chances are that they won't dedicate the same amount of heart and dedication to my game if they have to split their posting time between a bunch of games, and 2) I honestly love new players and enjoy the energy and fresh perspective that they bring. Also I like the idea of giving someone a chance who hasn't been lucky enough to find a game.

The attention the player pays to your posts?
This one is the most, most, most important of the questions posted. I can remember picking a few of my players based specifically on the fact that they worked in my campaign info (my game is a homebrew...an epic homebrew!!) in their character backgrounds, which meant to me that they're reading the content and want to be a part of this story. I can't emphasize enough how much this means to me as a GM.

Once you're past character creation, the day-by-day posts will have key information about the surroundings, enemies, plot hooks, etc. I will sometimes insert a nugget of information just to see if someone picks up on it. When my players notice it, it reassures me that they're here for the story, not because they wanted to roll a few dice.

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