What starting LV do you like to begin a campaign at?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Dark Archive

I prefer starting at level 1. On the other hand, the first adventure or so I tend to go easy on the players. You know, weapons that do 1D3 1d4 with only a x2 crit at most, maybe slightly lower AC then the enemy usually would have, that sort of things. I'm not a fan of one shotting the party at level 1. It can happen, and it has happened. But it's not very fun. As such I try to get the new group (especially new players) danger without it being overwhelming.

Course, after that first adventure or two the kids gloves come off. I don't get vindictive, but neither do I weaken the foes. And this only goes for homebrew games. For PFS sessions, there are no kids gloves. If the adventure I'm running has a decidedly lethal encounter, well, the party had better be on top of their game. I'm not going to substitute that dragon (if one was in a lev 1 scenario) for something else. Nor am I positioning it so it can't create a party wipe as they enter the chamber. I can't due to the rules of PFS. And if the scenario says that the dragon uses it's breath weapon on round one... Well, I hope the party has initiative and aren't surprised.

Liberty's Edge

I like starting at level 1, but I have never started a campaign at any higher level.

I actually like playing at low levels. Don't misunderstand me, I lile playing at high levels, too.


The power of level 1 to 2 is stupid and designed poorly

Your power level doubles from 1 to 2. That is silly. Crits can kill a level 1 way too easily. Too many things are too dangerous. You are pretty much set on fighting goblins and rats.

Now once you hit level 2 your hp and BAB doubles. Your survivabilty drastically increases.

Level 2 is a good start because you do not much more of a learning curve over level 1.

As a Dm I feel i need to softball things for levels 1s. That takes from the players accomplishments


I like the idea of making someone survive the lower levels. 1 or 2 sounds fair. If nothing else, I've heard of 'theorycraft' builds too often: the idea of something that only actually functions at level 15 or 20, and would be hacked to ribbons if ever actually played at level 2.

Of course, it'll be fun to ever try out the really neat toys.


When I'm running in person or running a longer adventure, I like to start campaigns at level 1, but get through level 1 quickly; you get to experience building from the ground up, but as previously mentioned, playing at level 1 can be icky sometimes. (I also tend to run Adventure Paths, so that also somewhat determines where I start if I want to go without huge adjustments.)

When I'm running PbP games, which tend to be module one-shots, I prefer to pick modules in the level 4-8 range. At that point, most builds are able to do their thing, but you don't have the silliness of 5th-level and above spells or I-win-button class abilities.

Level 4-8 is probably my favorite range to play in, too, for much the same reasons I prefer running games in it. You're at the point where most builds are coming into their own and where you start to feel at least somewhat powerful, but you're still limited enough that there's more of a danger factor present than when you get to 12th level and above and can just think "eh, if this goes south teleport fixes everything".


Start at first - definitely at first.

Although I will usuall do two things; give max hp and toughness as a free bonus feat.


I prefer 3rd. You don't automatically die to a single hit. You have a few spells. A second feat for sure. Builds start to develop. But you're not godlike yet either.

Dark Archive

3-5


I always prefer to start at 1st. You don't get used to your character otherwise IMO. The highest we have ever started is 3rd but the GM usually has a reason for doing it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Level 0 is my preference, but often times level 1 does the trick.

Scarab Sages

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"Congratulations, there is now a level zero." :)


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3-5 is my preference.

1st level just has too much variance. And characters are pretty bland as far as what they're capable of.

Plus you can fit in more backstory since your character has done some stuff thats adventuring/trial related.


1-3


7-10

I like prestige classes, multiclassing, and making builds that won't really work well until later (too few feats, spells, etc.). I don't like waiting multiple sessions (if not months) before my character can actually start playing how I want (the Hero System spoiled me too much).

When GMing, I try to open up as many class options to my PCs as possible (without any 3rd party). That means starting around 7-10 because that's when almost every prestige class that I remember can finally be entered.


The Guy With A Face wrote:

7-10

I like prestige classes, multiclassing, and making builds that won't really work well until later (too few feats, spells, etc.). I don't like waiting multiple sessions (if not months) before my character can actually start playing how I want (the Hero System spoiled me too much).

When GMing, I try to open up as many class options to my PCs as possible (without any 3rd party). That means starting around 7-10 because that's when almost every prestige class that I remember can finally be entered.

THANK YOU! Finally a seemingly like-minded person!


Depends on the tone of the game. Games with spell levels 1 and 2 are pretty much a different game from 3 and 4, or 5 and 6, or 7 and 8, or 9.

Pretty rare I'd start a game below level 5 if I intended to run it past PFS levels. [Not that I play PFS, too restrictive for my tastes.]


I'm not really sure what my preference is.

Actual games I see start almost invariably at either 3, 6, or 10-11. Occasionally I've seen groups where everyone is brand new (including whoever is running it) start at level one, typically if they aren't familiar with the system (and aren't expecting to have to play "it's a mouse, run for your lives!" for levels 1-2 before the real game starts).
I don't think I've ever seen a game start at exactly 2nd level. Maybe all the "fake Pathfinder" games I keep hearing about 'round these forums are the ones starting at level 2? (I don't actually know what the difference is between a real Pathfinder game and a fake Pathfinder game, I'm just taking a wild guess that starting level might matter in that determination.)
And I'm fairly certain I've never seen a game starting at level 7. 5? Yes. 6? Yes. 8? Also yes. And I've seen games starting at 9th level, and at 10th level. But not 7th level. I have no idea why.


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Starting at exactly 7th level is too anime! Real Roleplayers know that 6th, 8th, 11th, and 14th are the only true starting levels!


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I like to start at level 4, as both a DM and a player.


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RDM42 wrote:

Start at first - definitely at first.

Although I will usuall do two things; give max hp and toughness as a free bonus feat.

Max HP (as though your class HD was rolled maximum) at first level is already RAW.


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I don't mind starting at any level between 1-5, but my favorite is 4. It's low enough to create pretty much create the a standard Pathfinder campaign feel, yet high enough that all classes and most builds function as designed:


  • Everyone has enough HP that a single hit is unlikely to kill a PC.

  • Everyone has enough gold/equipment to make their characters function, including nonmagic armor, weapons, mounts, etc

  • Combat classes that need certain feats difficult to attain at 1st level to function can have those feats by third level. (Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, etc.)

  • Caster classes can all cast enough spells to make it through a day of adventuring with just a little bit of rationing.

  • Multi-class characters can have...multiple classes.

  • Class abilities that are key to the theme and functioning of the class, but too powerful to give out at 1st level lest people use one-level dips to acquire them, are mostly in place by level 4. (Wild Shape, Ki Pool, Channel Positive Energy, more than one point in various pools, Hunter's Bond, etc.)


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I'm going to cheat a bit because... Well, apparently thats what I do! I play session 0 with each player individually, in media res, somewhere in the past or future of the campaign we're going to play, or a dream sequence or some such, also ending the session as suddenly as it started, so as to avoid tricky complications for the campaign. After that, level 1, but during that particular session they can be almost any level.

Dark Archive

Generally we start at 1st level, but I kind of prefer 2nd level. 1st level is a bit too all-or-nothing for me, with a single bad roll being too likely to kill off the character. But my preference range is narrow, since I start to lose focus around 8th level... 4th level is my happy place.

I play way too many other types of games, such as superhero games, or GURPS, where you are 'super' right at '1st level' and don't really increase in power at the same rate, and I tend to prefer that sort of 'was always good, not waiting to 'get good later'' sort of situation. Many of the fantasy heroes I grew up reading about, like Conan or Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser, were 'already good' at the beginning of their careers, and didn't really change all that dramatically in 'power level' over the years (well, Conan got a kingdom, but it didn't really make his sword hit any harder or change his 'hit point' total...).


I prefer short campaigns that start at level 2-4 and finish at around 8-10. Past level 10 often gets a little silly. Especially if multiple characters can teleport.

I find it hard to design a true sandbox style campaign even for such a reasonably limited range of levels because an encounter that might be a tough challenge for a 2nd level character is a trivial task for a 5th level character.


The lowest level my group has ever started at is level 2. I myself prefer starting at level 3. That way, we start off with a few neat abilities and aren't at too much of a risk of dying before the story can truly kick off.

We do play to high levels with Mythic tiers but I create the characters of myself and two other players of our four player group. I try to be careful not to completely break the game in half so that it's relatively easy for the GM to manage.

Each player can have up to 4 characters and have the option to switch between them when it makes sense in the world (usually before heading off on an adventure). Automatic Bonus Progression and tossing out the XP system was essential for this to work.


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2~6.


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Level 3 or 4 is just about perfect to me, casters start picking up 2nd level spells, half-casters start racking up their class features they need to perform their job and martials are probably at the peak of their low-level prowess.

Lower level than that, characters tend to lack mechanical identity, full casters are next to worthless if your DM or the AP likes running lots of encounters without resting, half casters don't get all the tools they need and martials are the only thing keeping your tissue paper party afloat.


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20. It really gives them a chance to use those capstone abilities.

The first six books of an adventure path tend to be kind of boring however.


Arcane Addict wrote:
I'm going to cheat a bit because... Well, apparently thats what I do! I play session 0 with each player individually, in media res, somewhere in the past or future of the campaign we're going to play, or a dream sequence or some such, also ending the session as suddenly as it started, so as to avoid tricky complications for the campaign. After that, level 1, but during that particular session they can be almost any level.

I did something similar at the start of my campaign with each PC seperatly to give them the first mythic tier and to expand each ones personal storyline.


First level. Always.


I prefer 4-10.

We started a lot at level 1 over the years and began with higher levels at some point. It depends on the system and overall familiarity with it mostly. The current campaign began at level 1 again, though :)


I almost always use the following base rules:
My campaigns almost always begin at 2nd level. Characters are 2nd level, or equal in level to the lowest level member of the party, whichever is higher. Ability scores are generated by Point-Buy with 20 or 25 points, Player characters receive two traits at 1st level, and two background skill points per level. Characters have their maximum hit-point total at the beginning of play, and roll hit-point increases thereafter.
Retraining is allowed (especially to increase hit-points).
Starting Wealth is equal to Wealth by Level (usually 1000gp at 2nd) plus the result of your random starting wealth: 1000gp + (5d6 x 10)gp for a 2nd level Swashbuckler for example.

Most NPCs (including animal companions, eidolons, cohorts, followers, hirelings, etc) receive one trait at 1st level and one background skill point per level (I usually use this so that I can easily adapt an NPC build from another source by giving it the ability to use whatever skill I feel it needs).

Characters in my campaigns tend to come out feeling competent versatile, and well equipped (with mundane items at least). However they still typically respond to encounters normally for a party of their size and level.


Generally about 3rd level. Often 2nd for more experienced players.

I find 1st and even 2nd level for rookie players, can make things a little tough.
Spell casters have very few spells, and even a well armored fighter-type can be out of hit points with a couple of hits. So, they are a bit fragile for my tastes. No one wants to roll up new characters, only a few sessions in.

On the other hand, I prefer not to start games 5th or higher.
Starting in mid-high levels kind of rules out the low power monsters as serious threats (barring high numbers).
Many players in my long running campaigns, that are now high level, still have fond memories of challenging fights vs. groups of kolbolds, goblins, and other low-CR creatures. I like players in new campaigns to have that opportunity as well.

At 3rd level, they have enough HP to survive for while (I give max HP at starting level; whether 1st, 2nd or 3rd).
They've also got an extra feat or two, depending on class;
And primary casters are usually starting on 2nd level spells.

So, enough power not to be fodder; but still low enough that some classic low-end creatures are a serious threat.


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Only time I'd ever use first level in a D&D style game would be if one of the players hadn't ever played before.


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Way back when in the days of yor, I played 1st and 2nd edition AD&D it was common to roll up characters between 10th and 15th levels. The games didn't last long (maybe 5 levels). In College I played 2nd Edition characters from 3rd to 8th. I never got to play a complete game.

Even later when I got to play 3.5 and started 1st level characters they never got above 7th level.

It was only with Pathfinder that I got to play the APs and complete a campaign. I'm still envious of those who play those "10 years and still going" games.

So yea 1st level is rare in my D&D folder.


Of all my characters and characters and games in almost 2 decades of playing, I've leveled up a total of 14 times, the biggest chunk of those levels went to my Sangdeeba Keep character.

Obviously, I am tired of playing level 1 and never leveling. Even more so because at level 1 you can't be multiclass.

I will say though, playstyle matters. For more gamist play I like higher levels, but for more relaxed games where balance and duch are meaningless, I don't mind starting at lower levels, though being able to cast more than 1-3 spells per day is better.

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